SteveLyric2 Posted June 24, 2017 Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 Such a surprise this morning to see so many posters from different clubs agreeing with Matt Ford's pleas to have a higher team building average!! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted June 24, 2017 Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 My sentiments exactly. I don't have anything against Wolves, but it hurts so much, that a sport I have loved for so long is run by numpties who haven't got a clue. They couldn't make a bigger mess of things if they tried... Â The supporters continue to drift away and the BSPA show no signs of addressing the obvious issues. Like you say, the situation described above, merely highlights the mess this sport is in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted June 24, 2017 Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 My sentiments exactly. I don't have anything against Wolves, but it hurts so much, that a sport I have loved for so long is run by numpties who haven't got a clue. They couldn't make a bigger mess of things if they tried... Â The supporters continue to drift away and the BSPA show no signs of addressing the obvious issues. Like you say, the situation described above, merely highlights the mess this sport is in... Â Unfortunately after all the talk and being asked to be judged on 2017 Buster hasn't walked the walk as BSPA Chairman. This season has been as bigger mess as any other offer the last decade. The new chairman has been a flop imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookieIpswich Posted June 24, 2017 Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 Needs an independent body to run and push it and remove gospeed from any involvement in the sport 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunRobin Posted June 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 I have no problem with Wolves because they picked an improving side that isn't far off the 50 point mark they started with when the ridiculous multiplier was used - fair play to them that they picked a team of improvers. Â However, as I said previously, it has always been the case that struggling teams have very little options to improve within a stupid points limit and that's just how it is and doesn't look like getting changed. Also bear in mind that there appears to be a smaller pot from which to select replacements because fewer riders want to ride in the UK so it means options to strengthen are limited and then when you consider that a lot ride in two leagues in the UK, it reduces their availability too. Â It seems the BSPA are happy to build teams to an arbitrary limit and then to let improving teams pull away from the pack with the rest unable to compete on a level playing field because they can only strengthen to a much lower limit than the improving teams - which just cements the gap! In the meantime, the non-improving teams lose more and more supporters most of which manage to break the habit of attending to see whatever dross is put out and stop going altogether. Â This isn't sour grapes because it looks like there are limited or no options for Swindon to strengthen (although I believe that Rohan for Dany would have been the change to allow Swindon to challenge for the playoffs) because I accept that it has always been this way but it can't be right that the following pack have more limited options to strengthen than the leaders - where is the fairness in that? Â If teams were allowed to strengthen to the highest averaged team level then that would be fair because it is still a fair competition but to have teams building to 42 points when one team has a near 49 point average is just plain stupid - but that's British speedway for you and helps keep the costs down. Any other sport would increase the limit but speedway chooses to dumb it down so much so that crowd levels continue to fall. The big problem for Swindon & 2 others were the stupid averages over 12. It should have been a maximum of 12 as it meant any team with an over 12 rider had to ride with an average that couldn't have been achieved for 35% of the season. That extra 1.41 points would have made such a difference for Rosco as he could have kept Stefan Neillson, a Swindon Asset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted June 24, 2017 Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 The big problem for Swindon & 2 others were the stupid averages over 12. It should have been a maximum of 12 as it meant any team with an over 12 rider had to ride with an average that couldn't have been achieved for 35% of the season. That extra 1.41 points would have made such a difference for Rosco as he could have kept Stefan Neillson, a Swindon Asset.The over 12 averages didnt matter as it was all relative. Couldve had averages that werent inflated but the limit wouldve been 36ish  Either way each rider would be the same proportion of the total. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted June 24, 2017 Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 Such a surprise this morning to see so many posters from different clubs agreeing with Matt Ford's pleas to have a higher team building average!! :-) I'm sure most people don't give a rat's arse what he thinks. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted June 24, 2017 Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 The over 12 averages didnt matter as it was all relative.  Couldve had averages that werent inflated but the limit wouldve been 36ish  Either way each rider would be the same proportion of the total. It is all relative but the team limit is too low and had been for years. A sport should improve in strength not stupidly have to get rid of any rider who is doing well, or riders have to lose races at the end of the season to keep their average down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted June 24, 2017 Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 It is all relative but the team limit is too low and had been for years. A sport should improve in strength not stupidly have to get rid of any rider who is doing well, or riders have to lose races at the end of the season to keep their average down. Agree with that - an effective 36 total was a huge downgrade. At least with a revised 42 limit it sets the total around the average new totals with all riders getting new figures.  In the Championship it stays at 40 all season which is just plain daft. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted June 24, 2017 Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 Such a surprise this morning to see so many posters from different clubs agreeing with Matt Ford's pleas to have a higher team building average!! :-) Is he agreeing with me? Can't say I knew that or even care because he is part of the problem being a member of the BSPA that allowed this situation to arise - year on year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted June 25, 2017 Report Share Posted June 25, 2017 Every team goes out to get a squad of able riders, But the sport shouldn't be governed by rider on stupid averages. This year has been a joke from start to finish. All riders were given FT's (fictitious averages) and for Wolves to have benefited by over 4 points from them is outrageous. We were told that those FT were for team section only, Not to be run half a season. No team in their right mind would have agreed to Elite riders being multiply by 1.4 if they knew it was to run so long. Â Now that the points are out All teams should be on a reasonable level, that everyone can achieve. Not having one (Wolves) 4pts clear of the rest. Everyone could see these problems from the start , all except the BSPA rule makers. Â How have wolves 'benefited' by 4 points??? Teams could have all made changes within the points limit then and now. In fact every other team has 'benefited' from those ridiculous 1.4 additions for their number ones now they have returned to a somewhat normal average. Freddie has exceeded his starting average so get no benefit from that, nor should they. Schlein came in on a potentially lower average that any team could have taken a risk on. Â Wolves should be applauded for making the right team changes at the right time. Â It's those governing the averages that have messed up big time for several seasons now. Â Teams and promotions can only change within the rules set out. Â If teams were all on a 'reasonable' level it's as much up the promotions of teams like Leicester and Somerset to sign the right riders (within the strict rider availability throughout the UK leagues and Europe) and averages to be less 'multiplied or guessed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted June 25, 2017 Report Share Posted June 25, 2017 Is he agreeing with me? Can't say I knew that or even care because he is part of the problem being a member of the BSPA that allowed this situation to arise - year on year! Â Outvoted year after year by those that just want to weaken the product!! I'm sure most people don't give a rat's arse what he thinks. Thanks for your rat's arse of a comment!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunRobin Posted June 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2017 The over 12 averages didnt matter as it was all relative.  Couldve had averages that werent inflated but the limit wouldve been 36ish  Either way each rider would be the same proportion of the total. Don't agree that it was relative as 3 riders were carrying averages that they couldn't achieve. All other riders were in a position that they could achieve their average, therefore it weakened those 3 teams for 35% of the season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted June 28, 2017 Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 Don't agree that it was relative as 3 riders were carrying averages that they couldn't achieve. All other riders were in a position that they could achieve their average, therefore it weakened those 3 teams for 35% of the season.Don't agree with this at all. Every team on average was going to drop by around 18%;on the starting average. The BSPA have made an utter Ness of averages over the last 4 seasons, but having riders on averages over 12 is not one of them. They could have reduced those averages by 16% and made the limit 42 and it would in effect have been no different. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted June 28, 2017 Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 Don't agree with this at all. Every team on average was going to drop by around 18%;on the starting average. The BSPA have made an utter Ness of averages over the last 4 seasons, but having riders on averages over 12 is not one of them. They could have reduced those averages by 16% and made the limit 42 and it would in effect have been no different. It's not good trying to argue stats, facts and maths on a speedway forum. "It takes 45 points to win a meeting"* you know so why not a 45 point limit? Â *Actually takes 46, thats the best thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted June 29, 2017 Report Share Posted June 29, 2017 It's not good trying to argue stats, facts and maths on a speedway forum. "It takes 45 points to win a meeting"* you know so why not a 45 point limit? Â *Actually takes 46, thats the best thing! Yeah but you forgot that heat 15 doesn't count towards averages.....Fwiw I would be OK with a 43-45 point limit if you removed the ability to make like for like changes during the season. Â I remember the days of 49 and 51 point limits (Inc bp) but of course the issue was that some teams built right to the limit, and others 10-15 points under it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted June 29, 2017 Report Share Posted June 29, 2017 Yeah but you forgot that heat 15 doesn't count towards averages..... Fwiw I would be OK with a 43-45 point limit if you removed the ability to make like for like changes during the season. Â I remember the days of 49 and 51 point limits (Inc bp) but of course the issue was that some teams built right to the limit, and others 10-15 points under it. Since when did heat 15 not count? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted June 29, 2017 Report Share Posted June 29, 2017 Since when did heat 15 not count? Â He's being sarcastic. Â I don't want to be an unappreciative d**k, but does anyone know when the next set of averages come out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted June 29, 2017 Report Share Posted June 29, 2017 Â He's being sarcastic. Â I don't want to be an unappreciative d**k, but does anyone know when the next set of averages come out? I think it is Monday. Oh yes realise that now probably shouldn't post before 9! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted July 6, 2017 Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 New averages are on BSPA website this morning - effective Monday 10th July. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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