The National Stadium On Google Earth.

[pvm]

I've just been looking a Google Earth, and they have updated the maps of the area around the National Stadium, and it's interesting to see the difference in track shape between the old Belle Vue Track and the new National Stadium.

One thing I was surprised to see was how the track measurements, in terms of length from the apex of one bend to the opposite bend are very similar between the old and the New tracks. The old Belle Vue measures approx. 118 meters, compared to the National Stadium which measures approx. 128 meters. The big difference is the measurements between the home straights and the back straights. The old Belle Vue measures approx. 40 meters between the two, where as, the National Stadium measures 70 meters. Based on these figures the Old Belle Vue stadium has an approximate 3 to 1 ratio between Length and width, where as the New stadium has an approximate 1.9 to 1 ratio.

It got me thinking, is there an optimal ratio that produces excellent racing. I know there are some small tracks that produce good racing, and there are some big'ish tracks , in terms of track length,that produce poor racing. Is Shape the main factor in producing great racing circuits, irrespective of track length.

 

(Disclaimer:- All Measurements are approximate using the Google measurement tool, so may not be 100% accurate, but are close enough in accuracy for purposes of this discussion)

 

[poppetman]

The new track looks a good bit wider which probably has as much effect on the quality of racing as any other factors.

[SCB]

Ive said for a long time it's not track length that matters, it's having long bend where the straights are further apart. Look at Scunthorpe, Somerset and as pointed out BV. Most continental tracks have longer bends too.

 

Then look at Leicester, it's the complete opposite!

[Gunner85]

The new track is 10 m wide on the straights and 17 m on the bends.

 

Th e banking is 8 % but it can be moved up to a max of 10 %.

 

I would like to know how much banking was on the old Hyde road.

[mikebv]

The more circular rather than oval so straight line horsepower is less influential, and the wider the straights and the bends so there are more entry and exit lines to be taken, is usually the key to those tracks where racing is considered the best..

 

In Britain obviously many are inside Greyhound tracks so the footprint is often defined by the space available, however I often think track designers when building inside Greyhound circuits often make a mistake by following the same shape as the Greyhound track itself. Many clubs could still have a smaller more circular circuit with much wider straights and bends than the often long and narrow ones we end up with..

Edited June 14, 2017 by mikebv

[waiheke1]

The new track is 10 m wide on the straights and 17 m on the bends.

 

Th e banking is 8 % but it can be moved up to a max of 10 %.

 

I would like to know how much banking was on the old Hyde road.

I'd like to know what the banking was at the Shay!?! I never thought of Hyde Rd as being banked, even though I sat 3rd bend every week, but the banking at the shay was immense

[ch958]

The more circular rather than oval so straight line horsepower is less influential, and the wider the straights and the bends so there are more entry and exit lines to be taken, is usually the key to those tracks where racing is considered the best..

 

In Britain obviously many are inside Greyhound tracks so the footprint is often defined by the space available, however I often think track designers when building inside Greyhound circuits often make a mistake by following the same shape as the Greyhound track itself. Many clubs could still have a smaller more circular circuit with much wider straights and bends than the often long and narrow ones we end up with..

 

 

very good point about the shape - I have long wondered why Newcastle don't have a shorter and wider circuit - I for one do not like watching there which is a shame because its only a mile from my home!

[*JJ]

Ive said for a long time it's not track length that matters, it's having long bend where the straights are further apart. Look at Scunthorpe, Somerset and as pointed out BV. Most continental tracks have longer bends too.

 

Then look at Leicester, it's the complete opposite!

This is the mistake which David Hemsley made, designing it with long straights, thinking to make a 'fast' speedway, and refusing to listen to advice.

[Sotonian]

I'd like to know what the banking was at the Shay!?! I never thought of Hyde Rd as being banked, even though I sat 3rd bend every week, but the banking at the shay was immense

I'm told that Coatbridge was even more banked than The Shay.

[Gunner85]

I'd like to know what the banking was at the Shay!?! I never thought of Hyde Rd as being banked, even though I sat 3rd bend every week, but the banking at the shay was immense

There certainly was banking on the track..... the question is how much ?

[steve roberts]

There certainly was banking on the track..... the question is how much ?

Never thought that Oxford was particularly banked until viewed from the the inner kerb when I was helping out prior to the 2003 season. It had quite a gradient and for years the pits bend was notorious for having an adverse camber towards the top to which Dag Lovaas used to his advantage many times when passing opponents.

[topaz325]

Odsal had pretty steep banking if I remember correctly?

[The White Knight]

Odsal had pretty steep banking if I remember correctly?

Berwick's Shielfield Park also had steep banking on the pit's bend. I was amazed when I saw how steep it was when invited to take a close look and acually walk on it.

[Vince]

I'd have thought that the more circular the track the higher the speeds and the more important horsepower becomes. Certainly you can have small tracks that ride 'fast'.

 

Long straights and tight corners make being able to turn hard and find grip more important than horsepower in my opinion, usually gives less racing lines though.

[steve roberts]

I'd have thought that the more circular the track the higher the speeds and the more important horsepower becomes. Certainly you can have small tracks that ride 'fast'.

 

Long straights and tight corners make being able to turn hard and find grip more important than horsepower in my opinion, usually gives less racing lines though.

Mildenhall was/is almost circular and apparently rode like a large one. Visited twice and it did seem very fast.

 

Wolverhampton - long straights and tight bends with bikes screaming at the end of the straights due to the gear ratio employed. One of my least favourite tracks I have to say.

[martinmauger]

Hull, Boulevard had very little if any banking and when first constructed in 1995 Craven Park had none. In 1996 a little banking was added, but only 6 inches or so as apparently it would ruin the viewing of greynonds on the dog track which as present until mid 2003. Didn't make sense as, anyone who has been 'to the dogs' as I have will confirm most punters view the races on TV monitors. Both circuits woud be described as 'technical' having long straights and tight bends for the track lengths: Boulevard 415 yds / 379m Craven Park 378 yds / 348m. Coincedentally Craven Park meaured the same as Wembley and shared a smilar shape though Wembley appeared wider on the bends. Like with any track there were some processional races at both venues but also some very good ones. At the Boulevard one could get very, very close to the action (safety zones being a thing of the future) but the best feature of Craven Park was without doubt the view from the seats in the main stand, looking down onto the track similar to the view at Bradford.

 

Anyone out there thinking of building a new track: make the view from the stand at least 40ft in the air .

 

One puzzling aspect of the Craven Park circuit being as it mostly was sandwiched 'tween the dog track & rugby pitch, was from the outside it appeared a tad narrow (though I measured it as 9m on the straights, around 14m on the bends), but when actually walking the track it seemed much, much, wider. Curious....

Edited June 16, 2017 by Martin Mauger

[OveFundinFan]

Interesting that, martin Mauger, Craven Park being the same size as Wembley 378 yards (yards-pre decimalisation). Wembley was a tricky track to ride, and most foreigners (particularly eastern europeans) could'nt get the hang of it. Exceptions were Igor Plechanov and Boris Samarodov - pity Igor never became world champ and Boris never got the top three. Both deserved that. Igor, I would think, loved Wembley, and became the thorn in the side for Ove Fundin.

[steve roberts]

Hull, Boulevard had very little if nay banking and when first constructed in 1995 Craven Park had none. In 1996 a little banking was added, but only 6 inches or so as apparently it would ruin the viewing of greynonds on the dog track which as present until mid 2003. Didn't make sense as, anyone who has been 'to the dogs' as I have will confirm most punters view the races on TV monitors. Both circuits woud be described as 'technical' having long straights and tight bends for the track lengths: Boulevard 415 yds / 379m Craven Park 378 yds / 348m. Coincedentally Craven Park meaured the same as Wembley and shared a smilar shape though Wembley appeared wider on the bends. Like with any track there were some processional races at both venues but also some very good ones. At the Boulevard one could get very, very close to the action (safety zones being a thing of the future) but the best feature of Craven Park was without doubt the view from the seats in the main stand, looking down onto the track similar to the view at Bradford.

 

Anyone out there thinking of building a new track: make the view from the stand at least 40ft in the air .

 

One puzzling aspect of the Craven Park circuit being as it mostly was sandwiched 'tween the dog track & rugby pitch, was from the outside it appeared a tad narrow (though I measured it as 9m on the straights, around 14m on the bends), but when actually walking the track it seemed much, much, wider. Curious....

...as did the Boulevard apparently and John Berry and Ron Bagley took it upon themselves to measure said width much to the annoyance of Ian Thomas!

[The White Knight]

...as did the Boulevard apparently and John Berry and Ron Bagley took it upon themselves to measure said width much to the annoyance of Ian Thomas!

Haha - I remember reading about that. :D

[steve roberts]

Haha - I remember reading about that. :D

Apparently Ian Thomas called the police in...and if I recall the incident was reported to the Control Board and Ian Thomas failed to put in an appearance at the hearing!