The White Knight Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 Is that a bad thing, given for example that this year has basically the top 15 riders in the world in it? It's hard to name more than 1 or 2 riders who would improve it, and none who would be contenders. In any case, there are 3 spots available for riders outside the top 8 in the world to qualify for. I'd say in many respects that is an easier task than qualifying for the world final via the old inter continental round. Says it all really. What about 2nd Division Riders? (Sorry - Championship) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 Says it all really. What about 2nd Division Riders? (Sorry - Championship) Nothing to exclude them? A number of double uppers are in the qualifying rounds. Obviously the ridiculously low number of spots for Brits restricts things, but if a 2nd tier rider won the British final they would be in with a chance (in fact at the time Danny King got his spot announced, he may have been a PL only rider) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 Nothing to exclude them? A number of double uppers are in the qualifying rounds. Obviously the ridiculously low number of spots for Brits restricts things, but if a 2nd tier rider won the British final they would be in with a chance (in fact at the time Danny King got his spot announced, he may have been a PL only rider) I'm afraid that, though I watch the GPs, I do not hold them in as high esteem as I did the old 'one off' World Final. I honestly do not believe that the Qualifying System is as good either. I bet Ivan Mauger and Barry Briggs would have loved to be 'selected' every year, The beauty of the old System was that everybody was in the mix. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 I'm afraid that, though I watch the GPs, I do not hold them in as high esteem as I did the old 'one off' World Final. I honestly do not believe that the Qualifying System is as good either. I bet Ivan Mauger and Barry Briggs would have loved to be 'selected' every year, The beauty of the old System was that everybody was in the mix. Mauger and Briggs wouldn't have been selected, they would have qualified by finishing in the top 8 the previous season. Mauger I'm sure would have loved the GPS, but only becuase they favour the best riders compared to the one-off finals. i will agree though that the GPs dont have the "magic" of the old world final. and i do miss the old qualifying rounds, remember attending several overseas finals and a couple of commonwealth and inter-contintenta finals, and they were highlights of the season. but on the plus side, it is more likely the best rider in the world will be world champion, the quality of field is higher, and the standard of racing much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted June 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) Is that a bad thing, given for example that this year has basically the top 15 riders in the world in it? It's hard to name more than 1 or 2 riders who would improve it, and none who would be contenders. In any case, there are 3 spots available for riders outside the top 8 in the world to qualify for. I'd say in many respects that is an easier task than qualifying for the world final via the old inter continental round. Apart from Greg Laguta i would say the GP series has the best line up it can be but at times i do find the series boring the same riders every two/three weeks. Riders like Lee/Collins got pushed on far quicker than riders can now because there were more opportunities then.As a example Bewley this year was not given a semi final spot because of his average years ago he could of still qualified from the quarter finals.And lets not forget Woffinden a double world champion never even qualified for the series he was given a wildcard so luck still plays a part. Edited June 14, 2017 by Sidney the robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 Woffy got a spot because he was British. But how many continental riders over the years got a world final spot based on bring from the east, when they would have had no chance going via the inter continental route riders like starostin and ondrasik. I'd say Lee would have made the gp series in 78, so only a year later than he did. And remember Emil is one of only a handful of riders to have finished on the podium as a teenager. I'd say the riders that miss out are those who have one outstanding season. Someone like les Collins in 82 for example would never have been in the series, and had he qualified in 82 for the 83 season, would have finished close to bottom in 83 when he never got close to repeating the sane form. Agree with you regarding laguta, good to see him going through the qualifying rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 Although I agree the old one offs were special days of the 16 riders in it at least half were making the numbers up were as today although some of the 15 won't win it overall I reckon anyone of them could win a round Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 We have been through all of this before.Yes,the one off finals had the theatre,the excitement that came from knowing it was all on this one meeting.But the trouble was it was a one track thing and a track specialist could come out on top above riders who definitely were better over a season.As i mentioned the whole Wembley thing skewed some finals in favour of certain riders.It was also a time when riders rode regularly at only about 10 tracks,and it was also a time when 'cheating' was going on a fair bit. The early finals with a points total from quali rounds adding to the points in the final helped to an extent,but i can understand the trouble with a rider who doesn't win the final getting the title.But todays GP series is far far better in ensuring the best rider ends up with the title.That is why Tai deserves to be right up with the best Brits ever and in years to come will quite probably prove to be the best ever!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 Only part I may disagree with you, iris123, is your last bit about Tai being best Brit ever. He would have to win more world titles when the class of field was as like 2017. Fundin, Craven, Briggs, More, Knutsson were all at the top of their game and any race with them in would have been tough. Same with Collins, Mauger, Olsen, Nielsen..... all had to contend with each other but also other riders at the top of their game ie Louis, Betts< Jessup, Simmo, Ashby and others. Go through Gunderson, Penhall etc just the same. Ithink this years GP is with the current best 15, but I class it easier to some eras through speedway history. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 Only part I may disagree with you, iris123, is your last bit about Tai being best Brit ever. He would have to win more world titles when the class of field was as like 2017. Fundin, Craven, Briggs, More, Knutsson were all at the top of their game and any race with them in would have been tough. Same with Collins, Mauger, Olsen, Nielsen..... all had to contend with each other but also other riders at the top of their game ie Louis, Betts< Jessup, Simmo, Ashby and others. Go through Gunderson, Penhall etc just the same. Ithink this years GP is with the current best 15, but I class it easier to some eras through speedway history. I am not saying he is at this moment the best,but has a great chance to go on and prove he is,by winning another title or two against some great oppo.The thing with the GPs is that you have to prove yourself in a number of different countries on the various tracks that they provide.Plus,you have pretty much the best riders out there to compete against.Generally there might be one or two that are missing,but that is nothing compared to almost half the field being below standard and only there because of the biased qualification rounds of the one day finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 If I had to vote for one day final of the 12 round GP's it would be for the GP's. To be able to see the worlds best 12 times a year, racing different tracks - great. But the atmosphere, particularly at Wembley was fantastic. 1967 when Ove Fundin won whilst racing for Belle Vue - wife and I still talk about it. A gang of us went down, and our reaction as he won was just crazy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 If I had to vote for one day final of the 12 round GP's it would be for the GP's. To be able to see the worlds best 12 times a year, racing different tracks - great. But the atmosphere, particularly at Wembley was fantastic. 1967 when Ove Fundin won whilst racing for Belle Vue - wife and I still talk about it. A gang of us went down, and our reaction as he won was just crazy. Spot on.Agree with that,apart from the 1967 final,which i sadly missed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted June 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) I am not saying he is at this moment the best,but has a great chance to go on and prove he is,by winning another title or two against some great oppo.The thing with the GPs is that you have to prove yourself in a number of different countries on the various tracks that they provide.Plus,you have pretty much the best riders out there to compete against.Generally there might be one or two that are missing,but that is nothing compared to almost half the field being below standard and only there because of the biased qualification rounds of the one day finals.Was it that much more bais than the system now ? Edited June 15, 2017 by Sidney the robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 Was it that much more bais than the system now ? Of course.Much more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 I am not saying he is at this moment the best,but has a great chance to go on and prove he is,by winning another title or two against some great oppo.The thing with the GPs is that you have to prove yourself in a number of different countries on the various tracks that they provide.Plus,you have pretty much the best riders out there to compete against.Generally there might be one or two that are missing,but that is nothing compared to almost half the field being below standard and only there because of the biased qualification rounds of the one day finals. You can become World Champion without winning a single meeting A lot of people don't like that You can even be champion before the final meeting A lot of people don't like that And of course, these days, you can win a meeting with just one race win, in heat 23 A lot of people don't like that 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 You can become World Champion without winning a single meeting A lot of people don't like that You can even be champion before the final meeting A lot of people don't like that And of course, these days, you can win a meeting with just one race win, in heat 23 A lot of people don't like that Sure But in the old system you could win the final without winning any previous meeting.In fact you could be in the final without being in any previous meeting!!!! You might be able to win a meeting with only the one heat win,but in the end it is still the rider who has gained the most points over a whole season who ends up as champ.No flukes and very hard to buy off fellow riders and ask for favours over a season. There is also no chance that you win the championship by riding on your home track because there are so many tracks and some are never used for speedway other than the GP.So no home advantage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 You can become World Champion without winning a single meeting A lot of people don't like that You can even be champion before the final meeting A lot of people don't like that And of course, these days, you can win a meeting with just one race win, in heat 23 A lot of people don't like that Now personally - 'I LIKE THAT' - Post I mean. Says it all for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 Only part I may disagree with you, iris123, is your last bit about Tai being best Brit ever. He would have to win more world titles when the class of field was as like 2017. Fundin, Craven, Briggs, More, Knutsson were all at the top of their game and any race with them in would have been tough. Same with Collins, Mauger, Olsen, Nielsen..... all had to contend with each other but also other riders at the top of their game ie Louis, Betts< Jessup, Simmo, Ashby and others. Go through Gunderson, Penhall etc just the same. Ithink this years GP is with the current best 15, but I class it easier to some eras through speedway history. I'm sure you are right that the Fundin-Briggs-Craven-Moore era was one of the strongest in history. But it is funny when you look back how strong some years can look in retrospect. It is interesting to note that the 1999 GP series featured seven World Champions who have since totalled 20 World Championships! But would anyone then or now regard 1999 as the best year ever? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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