chunky Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 Okay, here's one for my fellow anoraks - at least the older ones... I had a weird thought the other day when I saw a pic of the Swindon team from 1962, The team was Tadeusz Teodorowicz, Ian Williams, Arne Carlsson, Mike Broadbank, Martin Ashby, Brian Brett, and Neil Street. It hit me that Streety was the only one who never qualified for an Individual World Final (and I know Teo was a non-riding reserve). Of course, there was quite a span between the finals, and not all six had previously appeared in a final (Brett and Ashby were still to appear in a final. So, I did some quick research, and found these : Wimbledon 1959 Ronnie Moore, Cyril Brine, Ron How, Gerry Jackson, Peter Moore, Bob Andrews, Cyril Maidment. Six of the seven rode in World Finals, with Jacko being the odd one out, Wembley 1952 Tommy Price, George Wilks, Bob Oakley, Eric Williams, Freddie Williams, Jimmy Gooch, Trevor Redmond, Bill Kitchen. An impressive seven out of eight, with only Wilks missing out. So, do we know if a team has ever taken to the track with a complete line-up of riders who - at some point in their careers - appeared in a World Final (either before or after)? I'm not just talking about members of a team who rode in the same season, but actually appeared in the same official fixture? Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryW Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 The 1983 Cradley team comes close. Erik Gundersen, Simon Wigg, Lance King, Phil Collins, Jan O Pedersen and Alan Grahame all raced in at least one World Final. The 7th regular member of the team, Peter Ravn, was reserve for the 1983 Final but didn't race. Their number 8 that season, who made several appearances in the team, was Simon Cross who also raced in a World Final. I'm not sure if there was any meeting where Cross replaced Ravn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 Ipswich 1998 wasn't bad with Tomasz Gollob, Tony Rickardsson, Chris Louis, Scott Nicholls, Toni Svab (2 Grand Prix) and the great Savalas Clouting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 The mighty Belle Vue Aces of 1934 also come close. Frank Varey, Max Grosskreutz, Bob Harrison, Eric Langdon, Joe Abbott, Bill Kitchen & Frank Charles made up the League winning side. 1936 World Final: Langdon, Charles & Harrison rode 1937 World Final: Varey, Abbott & Kitchen made their debuts Only Max Grosskreutz failed to ride in a World Final even though he was a world class performer. Probably due to the fact that he retired in 1937 to become Promoter at 2nd Div Norwich! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 The 1983 Cradley team comes close. Erik Gundersen, Simon Wigg, Lance King, Phil Collins, Jan O Pedersen and Alan Grahame all raced in at least one World Final. The 7th regular member of the team, Peter Ravn, was reserve for the 1983 Final but didn't race. Their number 8 that season, who made several appearances in the team, was Simon Cross who also raced in a World Final. I'm not sure if there was any meeting where Cross replaced Ravn. Maybe early season before ravn moved from bell vue? I know andy reid started at reserve but maybe cross rode some meetings between Reid and ravn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted June 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 Thanks for the input guys! I did wonder about Cradley 1983, and obviously, they seem the closest - so far - with six World Finalists and a non-riding reserve. Unfortunately, the info for that season isn't available on Speedway Researcher, and the Cradley website only lists lineups for the cup matches. Peter Ravn and Simon Cross appeared together several times (in Cup action), but I don't know if Simon took his place in any meetings. Seems like there are several teams who are missing just one, but with some more research, maybe we can dig up a complete team of finalists! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 Oxford 1989 not far off. Nielsen, Wigg, Cox, Dugard and Butler all made the World Final, while Andy Grahame was a non-riding reserve in 1982. Odd man out was Paul Dugard. All the best Rob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevH Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 I'm not sure if there was any meeting where Cross replaced Ravn. Yes, Simon Cross rode in 14 meetings for The Heathens that year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) Yes, Simon Cross rode in 14 meetings for The Heathens that year. Ravn replaced Dave Cheshire in the line-up. King was injured for a month or two, and Cross came in. But it's possible there were a meeting somewhere Cross replaced Ravn, and Heathens his six fully-fledged World Finalists, plus a riding reserve in Alan Grahame (1984). All the best Rob Edited June 9, 2017 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted June 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 Yes, Simon Cross rode in 14 meetings for The Heathens that year. It's not a case of whether Simon Cross rode that year - we know he did - but if he replaced Peter Ravn on any specific occasion. That could certainly have given them a team (on the night) full of World Finalists. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 Amazingly the Birmingham side of 82featured 7 riders who rode in world finals plus andy Grahame who was a reserve. Almost certain though that all 7 did not all ride together in any meeting. Nielsen Jorgensen evitts thorp kudrna maier and dryml plus grahame The 83 side had 6 plus Grahame, with ondrasik the addition and kudrna and dryml no longer there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Split Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) The New Cross team of 1961 had 7 world finalists if we include Bengt Brannefors who was reserve in the 1966 final. In fact Brannefors was released by the Rangers early that season so I'm not sure that he qualifies.The others were: Waterman, Luckhurst, Davies, Gooch, McAuliffe and Eric Williams. Edited June 10, 2017 by Split 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted June 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) The New Cross team of 1961 had 7 world finalists if we include Bengt Brannefors who was reserve in the 1966 final. In fact Brannefors was released by the Rangers early that season so I'm not sure that he qualifies.The others were: Waterman, Luckhurst, Davies, Gooch, McAuliffe and Eric Williams. Again, it's not a case of how many World Finalists appeared for them during the season, but whether they actually field a full team of World Finalists on a particular occasion. UPDATE Just checking through the matches, the six you mentioned appeared together on several occasions, but were joined by either Johnny Fitzpatrick or Bobby Croombs. Steve Edited June 10, 2017 by chunky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted June 11, 2017 Report Share Posted June 11, 2017 (edited) Interesting thread and it's not always the best teams that have a load of world finalists. Exeter 1979 is a good example - Autrey, Verner, Verner, Kudrna, Dryml and no8 Boocock all had at least one WF appearance. Koppe and Prinsloo were the exceptions. On the other hand, a top team like Reading 1990 were stacked - Jonsson, Doncaster, Wiltshire, Andersson, Olsson, Castagna all got through to the big night. Think that was also probably the only year where an eligible World Champion failed to qualify for the BLRC or ELRC or whatever it has been called. Jonsson was third in the Racers averages that year. Quirky stuff for all anoraks out there 😀 Another interesting one... Cradley 1982 had eight riders don the Heathens' bib who reached at least one WF. Penhall, Gundersen, King, Collins, Cross, Wigg, Verner, Grahame (res). Edited June 11, 2017 by falcace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie B Posted June 17, 2017 Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) Thursday 19 May 1983 the British League match Wimbledon vs Cradley Heath had 11 former, current and future World finalists on show. For Wimbledon: Dave Jessup, Kai Niemi, Malcolm Simmons and Kelvin Tatum. For Cradley Heath: Simon Wigg, Peter Ravn, Erik Gundersen, Alan Grahame, Phil Collins, Jan O. Pedersen and Lance King. The match score was Wimbledon 35, Cradley Heath 43 Wimbledon beat Cradley Heath at home later in the year. Peter Ravn, also qualified for the 1987 2-day final in Amsterdam as reserve and rode in heat 15 scoring 1 point after Gerd Riss broke the tapes. This make this 1983 particular Cradley Heath team being made-up of all former, current and future World finalists. Whether 11 riders in one meeting is a record I don't know. The first time that these Cradley Heath riders rode together as team was on May 7 at home against Birmingham (League Cup) Cradley won 56-22. For the British League it's the Wimbledon fixture that I have mentioned above. Steve, I think that this finally answers your question. I did double check the Speedway Star for 1983 and Peter Ravn did ride in most of that seasons meetings for Cradley Heath sometimes alongside Simon Cross, so you can also add him to those teams of world finalists who rode in a meeting. Edited June 17, 2017 by Robbie B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted June 17, 2017 Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) This make this 1983 particular Cradley Heath team being made-up of all former, current and future World finalists. Whether 11 riders in one meeting is a record I don't know. New Cross v. Wimbldon 31 May 1961 New Cross: Split Waterman, Reg Luckhurst, Doug Davies, Jimmy Gooch, Eric Williams, Leo McAuliffe Wimbldeon: Ronnie Moore, Cyril Brine, Ron How, Cyril Maidment, Bob Andrews Also eleven. Two weeks later, New Cross met Swindon. Same six for New Cross. Swindon had George White, Mike Broadbank(s), Brian Brett and Ian Williams plus Teo Teodorowicz (who made it to reseve for one final but never actually rode). So sort of eleven! Edited June 17, 2017 by norbold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted June 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 Peter Ravn, also qualified for the 1987 2-day final in Amsterdam as reserve and rode in heat 15 scoring 1 point after Gerd Riss broke the tapes. Thanks for making me feel stupid! I WAS THERE IN AMSTERDAM! I remember that Riss incident - the German fans weren't happy with that decision. Yep, that answers that... Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted June 17, 2017 Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 Thanks for making me feel stupid! I WAS THERE IN AMSTERDAM! I remember that Riss incident - the German fans weren't happy with that decision. Yep, that answers that... Steve Riss didn't even break the tapes, it was Jan O. Pedersen. Mr Magoo was the ref that night! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 What were the line ups when Cradley met Birmingham in 83? Belle Vue v Cradley in 83 could have had 11 finalists with Ross mort smith and pc on the Aces side. Or early season aces also had Ravn but not sure the heathens fielded 7 world finalists in those clashes. Didn't Ipswich 83 have sanders sigalos cook and Doncaster? Think there could have been a number of teams heathens met that season with 4 past or future world finalists in their ranks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie B Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) I have listed all matches when Cradley Heath 1983 matches when they used 7 former, current and future World Finalists along with the teams that they were racing against (as long as it 11 World Finalists - to keep the page short as possible). Will 11 World Finalists be the record I don't know yet. if you reply to this post please DO NOT COPY AND PASTE due to its length. World Finalists will be in bold Saturday 7 May Cradley Heath 56, Birmingham 22 (League Cup) Cradley Heath: Phil Collins 11, Erik Gundersen 11, Peter Ravn 9, Simon Wigg 8, Alan Grahame 7, Lance King 6, Jan Pedersen 4 Birmingham Andy Grahame 7, Hans Nielsen 6, John Jorgensen 4, Nigel Sparshott 2, Kent Nore 2, Neil Evitts 1, Mike Wilding 0 Thursday 19 May Wimbledon 35, Cradley Heath 43 (British League) Wimbledon: Dave Jessup 11, Kelvin Tatum 7, Malcolm Simmons 6, Kai Niemi 5, Ari Koponen 4, Roger Johns 2, Mike Ferreira 0 Cradley Heath: Simon Wigg 11, Erik Gundersen 11, Peter Ravn 6, Alan Grahame 6, Phil Collins 6, Lance King 4, Jan Pedersen 1 Wednesday 25 May Away to Poole (British League) Cradley Heath won 51-27 Cradley Heath: Erik Gundersen 12, Simon Wigg 10, Phil Collins 9, Lance King 7, Peter Ravn 5, Alan Grahame 4, Jan Pedersen 4. Poole only had two finalists Michael Lee & John Davis. Saturday 28 May Cradley Heath 45, Reading 33 (British League) Cradley Heath: Erik Gundersen 9, Lance King 9, Alan Grahame 9, Simon Wigg 6, Peter Ravn 5, Simon Cross 4, Phil Collins 2. Reading: Bobby Schwartz 14, Jan Andersson 10, Mitch Shirra 7, Derek Harrison 1, Glyn Taylor 1, Tim Hunt 0, Richard Knight 1. Saturday 4 June Cradley Heath 49, Coventry 29 (British League) Cradley Heath: Simon Wigg 11, Erik Gundersen 9, Lance King 10, Phil Collins 8, Andy Grahame (guest) 7, Peter Ravn 6, Alan Grahame 3. Coventry: Ole Olsen 11, Steve Bastable 9, Tommy Knudsen 6, Sanm Nikolajsen 2, Kevin Hawkins 1, Rick Miller 0. Saturday 25 June Home to Sheffield (British League) Cradley Heath won 56-22 Cradley Heath: Phil Collins 12, Erik Gundersen 11, Simon Wigg 10, Alan Grahame 8, Lance King 6, Peter Ravn 6, Jan Pedersen 3. Sheffield only had one finalists.Shawn Moran. Thursday 7 July Away to Sheffield (British League) Cradley Heath won 46-32 Cradley Heath: Erik Gundersen 10, Lance King 9, Alan Grahame 7, Phil Collins 6, Jan Pedersen 6, Simon Wigg 4, Peter Ravn 4. Sheffield only had one finalists.Shawn Moran. Saturday 9 July Home to Poole (Speedway Star KO Cup quarter final 1st leg) Cradley Heath won 53-25 Cradley Heath: Alan Grahame 12, Phil Collins 9, Simon Wigg 8, Erik Gundersen 7, Peter Ravn 7, Lance King 6, Jan Pedersen 4. Poole only had two finalists Michael Lee & John Davis. Monday 11 July Away to Birmingham (British League) Cradley Heath won 42-36 Cradley Heath: Erik Gundersen 10, Phil Collins 8, Simon Wigg 6, Peter Ravn 5, Jan Pedersen 5, Alan Grahame 4, Lance King 4. Birmingham only had three finalists.Hans Nielsen, Neil Evitts and John Jorgensen. Wednesday 13 July Away to Poole (Speedway Star KO Cup quarter final 2nd leg) Cradley Heath won 43-35 Cradley Heath: Simon Wigg 9, Erik Gundersen 8, Alan Grahame 7, Lance King 7, Jan Pedersen 5, Phil Collins 4, Peter Ravn 3. Poole only had two finalists.Michael Lee & John Davis. Saturday 23 July Away to Halifax (British League) Halifax 13, Cradley Heath 11 (abandoned) Cradley Heath: Simon Wigg 3, Erik Gundersen 3, Simon Cross 3, Lance King 1, Phil Collins 1, Alan Grahame 0, Peter Ravn 0. Halifax only had three finalists Doug Wyer, Kenny Carter and Eric Boocock. Saturday 6 August Home to Poole (British League) Cradley Heath won 57-21 Cradley Heath: Alan Grahame 10, Erik Gundersen 9, Lance King 9, Phil Collins 8, Peter Ravn 8, Simon Wigg 7, Jan Pedersen 6. Poole only had two finalists Michael Lee & John Davis. Saturday 13 August Home to King's Lynn (British League) Cradley Heath won 59-19 Cradley Heath: Lance King 12, Phil Collins 12, Simon Wigg 9, Erik Gundersen 9, Alan Grahame 8, Jan Pedersen 5, Peter Ravn 4. King's Lynn only had two finalists John Louis & Gordon Kennett. Sunday 14 August Away to King's Lynn (British League) Cradley Heath won 47-31 Cradley Heath: Erik Gundersen 11, Simon Wigg 9, Phil Collins 8, Lance King 7, Alan Grahame 6, Peter Ravn 3. Jan Pedersen 3. King's Lynn only had two finalists John Louis & Gordon Kennett. Saturday 20 August Home to Leicester (British League) Cradley Heath won 56-22 Cradley Heath: Phil Collins 12, Erik Gundersen 11, Simon Wigg 10, Alan Grahame 9, Lance King 7, Peter Ravn 5, Simon Cross 2. Leicester only had one finalists Les Collins. Thursday 25 August Ipswich 46, Cradley Heath 32 (British League) ipswich: Billy Sanders 12, Jeremy Doncaster 11, Dennis Sigalos 10, Preben Eriksen 6, Nigel Flatman 4, Andy Hines 3, Carl Baldwin 0. Cradley Heath: Erik Gundersen 9, Alan Grahame 7, Lance King 6, Peter Ravn 5, Simon Wigg 3, Phil Collins 1, Simon Cross 1. Monday 29 August Home to Swindon (British League) Cradley Heath won 53-25 Cradley Heath: Simon Wigg 12, Alan Grahame 10, Erik Gundersen 9, Phil Collins 8, Lance King 7, Peter Ravn 5, Simon Cross 2. Swindon only had one finalists Phil Crump. Monday 29 August Away to Swindon (British League) Cradley Heath won 49-29 Cradley Heath: Phil Collins 10, Erik Gundersen 9, Alan Grahame 8, Simon Wigg 8, Lance King 7, Peter Ravn 5, Simon Cross 2. Swindon only had one finalists Phil Crump. Saturday 10 September Belle Vue 29, Cradley Heath 49 (British League) Belle Vue: Chris Morton 9, Peter Collins 9, Larry Ross 9, Peter Carr 3, Andy Smith 2, Kenny McKinna 0, Louis Carr 0. Cradley Heath: Erik Gundersen 11, Simon Wigg 10, Peter Ravn 9, Lance King 8, Phil Collins 7, Alan Grahame 3, Simon Cross 1. Monday 19 September Away to Reading (Speedway Sta KO Cup semi final 1st leg) Cradley Heath won 46-32 Cradley Heath: Erik Gundersen 11, Alan Grahame 9, Bo Petersen (guest) 7, Peter Ravn 6, Simon Wigg 5, Phil Collins 4, Simon Cross 4. Reading only had three finalists Bobby Schwartz, Mitch Shirra and Jan Andersson. Saturday 24 September Home to Reading (Speedway Sta KO Cup semi final 2nd leg) Cradley Heath won 47-31 Cradley Heath: Erik Gundersen 12, Simon Wigg 8, Phil Collins 8, Alan Grahame 7, Peter Ravn 6, Jan Pedersen 4, Simon Cross 2. Reading only had three finalists Bobby Schwartz, Mitch Shirra and Jan Andersson. Tuesday 27 September Away to Leicester (British League) Cradley Heath won 56-22 Cradley Heath: Simon Wigg 12, Phil Collins 10, Erik Gundersen 9, Alan Grahame 8, Peter Ravn 7, Jan Pedersen 5, Andy Grahame (guest) 5. Leicester only had one finalists Les Collins. Wednesday 28 September Home to Swindon (Midland Cup 1st leg) Cradley Heath won 60-18 Cradley Heath: Alan Grahame 11, Erik Gundersen 10, Phil Collins 10, Peter Ravn 10, Simon Wigg 10, Jan Pedersen 9, Simon Cross 0. Swindon only had one finalists Phil Crump. Friday 30 September Away to Swindon (Midland Cup 1st leg) Cradley Heath won 40-38 Cradley Heath: Simon Wigg 10, Erik Gundersen 10, Alan Grahame 10, Peter Ravn 4, Simon Cross 2, Phil Collins 2, Jan Pedersen 2. Swindon only had one finalists Phil Crump. Thursday 6 October Wimbledon 40, Cradley Heath 38 (Challenge) Wimbledon: Dave Jessup 9, Kelvin Tatum 8, Roger Johns 7, Kai Niemi 5, Ari Koponen 4, Mike Ferreira 4, Malcolm Simmons 3 Cradley Heath: Erik Gundersen 12, Jan Pedersen 7, Alan Grahame 7, Simon Wigg 5, Phil Collins 3, Peter Ravn 2, Simon Cross 2 Wednesday 19 October Away to Coventry (Midland Cup Final 1st leg) Cradley Heath won 40-38 Cradley Heath: Erik Gundersen 11, Simon Wigg 6, Alan Grahame 6, Phil Collins 6, Peter Ravn 5, Simon Cross 3, Jan Pedersen 3. Coventry only had three finalists Steve Bastable, Rick Miller and John Davis. Saturday 22 October Home to Wimbledon (British League) Cradley Heath won 59-19 Cradley Heath: Erik Gundersen 11, Alan Grahame 11, Simon Wigg 9, Peter Ravn 8, Simon Cross 8, Phil Collins 7, Jan Pedersen 5. Wimbledon only had three finalists Dave Jessup, Malcolm Simmons and Kai Niemi. Monday 24 October Home to Coventry (Midland Cup Final 2nd leg) Cradley Heath won 56-22 Cradley Heath: Lance King 11, Erik Gundersen 10, Alan Grahame 9, Phil Collins 9, Peter Ravn 7, Simon Wigg 6, Jan Pedersen 4. Coventry only had three finalists Steve Bastable, Rick Miller and Jan Andersson. Wednesday 26 October Away to Poole (Challenge) Cradley Heath won 46-32 Cradley Heath: Erik Gundersen 12, Alan Grahame 9, Lance King 8, Simon Wigg 7, Peter Ravn 6, Phil Collins 4, Jan Pedersen 0. Poole only had three finalists Mitch Shirra, Sam Ermolenko and Michael Lee. Wednesday 28 October Away to Belle Vue (Challenge) Cradley Heath won 34-43 Belle Vue: Chris Morton 11, Peter Collins 8, Peter Carr 6, Kenny McKinna 3, Andy Smith 3, Larry Ross 2, Louis Carr 1. Cradley Heath: Lance King 10, Erik Gundersen 8, Simon Wigg 8, Alan Grahame 6, Phil Collins 4, Peter Ravn 4, Simon Cross 2. Edited June 18, 2017 by Robbie B 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.