1961 Queries

[daveallan81]

Tidying up a results list for the season so it's likely there will be a few anomalies that will require checking. First one concerns the 1961 Provincial League KOC. Were Newcastle, who started the season late, included in the original draw to meet the winners of the Sheffield v Plymouth tie in the quarter finals? Or was the Sheffield v Plymouth tie a quarter final tie in itself? That match took place on 18th May which was during the week the first round ties were scheduled.

[daveallan81]

I knew it wouldn't take long. Second query for the Central Challenge Shield competition between Coventry, Leicester, Oxford and Swindon.

 

31st August Oxford v Leicester - can someone confirm the result as a 43-35 home win? The files on Speedway Researcher are incorrect.

 

I'm also looking for a final table if anyone has one. I'll post what I've got once the above query is sorted out.

[BL65]

Tidying up a results list for the season so it's likely there will be a few anomalies that will require checking. First one concerns the 1961 Provincial League KOC. Were Newcastle, who started the season late, included in the original draw to meet the winners of the Sheffield v Plymouth tie in the quarter finals? Or was the Sheffield v Plymouth tie a quarter final tie in itself? That match took place on 18th May which was during the week the first round ties were scheduled.

The draw for the first two rounds of the 1961 PL KOC was:

Round One: Rayleigh v Exeter, Stoke v Middlesbrough

Round Two: Edinburgh v Rayleigh or Exeter, Poole v Wolverhampton, Sheffield v Plymouth, Stoke or Middlesbrough v Cradley Heath

 

Newcastle did not take part in the KOC.

 

The PL KOC was previewed in Speedway Star 6th May 1961.

I knew it wouldn't take long. Second query for the Central Challenge Shield competition between Coventry, Leicester, Oxford and Swindon.

 

31st August Oxford v Leicester - can someone confirm the result as a 43-35 home win? The files on Speedway Researcher are incorrect.

 

I'm also looking for a final table if anyone has one. I'll post what I've got once the above query is sorted out.

The heat placings on the Researcher website are correct, but heat 12 is shown as 3-3 when it should be 2-4. This amendment provides the correct result of 43-35, as confirmed in my programme. Also, the scorechart has McKinlay's total as 12, but his scores only total 10. The team scores then add up to 35. The errors on the Researcher site are copied directly from the Speedway Star match report.

 

The final table was

Coventry 6 matches, won 3, lost 3, pts 246-222, match points 27

Swindon 6 matches, won 3, lost 3, pts 237-231, match points 25

Leicester 6 matches, won 3, lost 3, pts 233-237, match points 25

Oxford 6 matches, won 3, lost 3, pts 222-248, match points 20

 

Match point scoring was:

A team scoring up to 29 points = 0

30 to 32 points = 1

33 to 35 points = 2

36 to 38 points = 3

39 points = 4

40 to 42 points = 5

43 to 45 points = 6

46 to 48 points = 7

49 points and over = 8

Edited June 6, 2017 by BL65

[daveallan81]

Thanks very much. If you're making changes to your files please also note the header result of the 8th September Leicester v Oxford match is wrong (showing 49-39 instead of 49-29).

 

Regarding the final table, I have Leicester scoring 231 and Oxford conceding 246. Does your table also require adjusting for the 43-37 error?

 

The results I have for Leicester are:

 

H/A v Coventry 44-34 & 27-51

H/A v Oxford 49-29 & 35-43

H/A v Swindon 46-32 & 30-48

 

For Oxford:

 

H/A v Coventry 42-36 & 30-48

H/A v Leicester 43-35 & 29-49

H/A v Swindon 47-31 & 31-47

[BL65]

Thanks very much. If you're making changes to your files please also note the header result of the 8th September Leicester v Oxford match is wrong (showing 49-39 instead of 49-29).

 

Regarding the final table, I have Leicester scoring 231 and Oxford conceding 246. Does your table also require adjusting for the 43-37 error?

 

The results I have for Leicester are:

 

H/A v Coventry 44-34 & 27-51

H/A v Oxford 49-29 & 35-43

H/A v Swindon 46-32 & 30-48

 

For Oxford:

 

H/A v Coventry 42-36 & 30-48

H/A v Leicester 43-35 & 29-49

H/A v Swindon 47-31 & 31-47

Yes Dave, I have checked and the final table published in Speedway Star perpetuated their error and your team points totals are the correct ones.

[daveallan81]

Yes Dave, I have checked and the final table published in Speedway Star perpetuated their error and your team points totals are the correct ones.

 

Cheers

[daveallan81]

Can someone confirm the date of the opening meeting at Bradford Greenfield? Speedway Researcher file says Monday 14th August but a programme scan on the Defunct Speedway website and the file I'm working on both say Tuesday 15th.

[BL65]

Can someone confirm the date of the opening meeting at Bradford Greenfield? Speedway Researcher file says Monday 14th August but a programme scan on the Defunct Speedway website and the file I'm working on both say Tuesday 15th.

Speedway Star carried a match report which was headed 14th August, but then had a separate report stating that the opening meeting on Tuesday 15th August was a great succeess. I can confirm that the programme was for the meeting on 15th. It had to start at 6.45 p.m. as the track lights were not ready in time for the meeting.

[daveallan81]

I require confirmation of these Southampton dates/meetings/results:

 

04/04/1961 v Monarkerna - Rained Off

23/05/1961 Pride Of The South - Arne Pander

20/06/1961 Internationale QR - Bjorn Kutsson

 

Two Internationale QR finished tied with no run-off evident. Was an outright winner declared for 21/06 at New Cross (Ronnie Moore & Ove Fundin) and 22/06 at Oxford (Arne Pander & Peter Craven)?

 

New Cross, Southampton and Wimbledon competed in a mini-league for the South of England Cup. I'm unable to identify the fixtures between New Cross and Wimbledon. Assuming the fixtures took place, potential dates are:

 

31/03 New Cross v Wimbledon billed as London Cup Leg 1

31/03 Wimbledon v New Cross billed as London Cup Leg 2

26/04 New Cross v Wimbledon (National League KOC QF)

22/05 Wimbledon v New Cross (National League)

31/05 New Cross v Wimbledon (National League)

[Robbie B]

Two Internationale QR finished tied with no run-off evident. Was an outright winner declared for 21/06 at New Cross (Ronnie Moore & Ove Fundin) and 22/06 at Oxford (Arne Pander & Peter Craven)?

 

I have fully completed programmes for all of the Internationale meetings, and none of the qualifying rounds programmes in 1961 schedule a run off race to decide the overall winner if riders tied during the meeting.

 

My file for the Internationale is on the Speedway Researcher website under the Wimbledon team section.

[BL65]

I require confirmation of these Southampton dates/meetings/results:

 

04/04/1961 v Monarkerna - Rained Off

23/05/1961 Pride Of The South - Arne Pander

20/06/1961 Internationale QR - Bjorn Kutsson

 

Two Internationale QR finished tied with no run-off evident. Was an outright winner declared for 21/06 at New Cross (Ronnie Moore & Ove Fundin) and 22/06 at Oxford (Arne Pander & Peter Craven)?

 

New Cross, Southampton and Wimbledon competed in a mini-league for the South of England Cup. I'm unable to identify the fixtures between New Cross and Wimbledon. Assuming the fixtures took place, potential dates are:

 

31/03 New Cross v Wimbledon billed as London Cup Leg 1

31/03 Wimbledon v New Cross billed as London Cup Leg 2

26/04 New Cross v Wimbledon (National League KOC QF)

22/05 Wimbledon v New Cross (National League)

31/05 New Cross v Wimbledon (National League)

Southampton v Monarkerna on 4th April was called off on the day due to a waterlogged track.

23rd May Pride of the South

A.Pander 15, P.Craven 14, R.How 12, B.Briggs 11, N.Street 11, R.Moore 10, C.Taylor 7, D.Bradley 7, P.Vandenberg 7, I.Williams 6, J.Young 6, T.Teodorowicz 5, C.Roger 3, P.Moore 3, A.Golden 2, B.Duckworth 1

 

Let me know if you require the heat results.

 

According to my records, Southampton met New Cross over two legs for the South Eastern Challenge Cup, whereas Southampton met Wimbledon over two legs for the South of England Cup. I don't recall the competitions being linked as part of a mini league. Match reports at the time indicated that the winners in each of the two legged affairs were presented with the cups. New Cross met Wimbledon for the London Cup much earlier in the season.

Edited June 8, 2017 by BL65

[daveallan81]

 

I have fully completed programmes for all of the Internationale meetings, and none of the qualifying rounds programmes in 1961 schedule a run off race to decide the overall winner if riders tied during the meeting.

 

My file for the Internationale is on the Speedway Researcher website under the Wimbledon team section.

 

I had forgotten all about your Internationale file. Good piece of work that

 

Southampton v Monarkerna on 4th April was called off on the day due to a waterlogged track.

23rd May Pride of the South

A.Pander 15, P.Craven 14, R.How 12, B.Briggs 11, N.Street 11, R.Moore 10, C.Taylor 7, D.Bradley 7, P.Vandenberg 7, I.Williams 6, J.Young 6, T.Teodorowicz 5, C.Roger 3, P.Moore 3, A.Golden 2, B.Duckworth 1

 

Let me know if you require the heat results.

 

According to my records, Southampton met New Cross over two legs for the South Eastern Challenge Cup, whereas Southampton met Wimbledon over two legs for the South of England Cup. I don't recall the competitions being linked as part of a mini league. Match reports at the time indicated that the winners in each of the two legged affairs were presented with the cups. New Cross met Wimbledon for the London Cup much earlier in the season.

 

Confirmation of the dates will do nicely thanks.

 

The Researcher files all carry South Of England Cup against the fixtures and I've wrongly assumed they were part of a wee league. Thanks for clearing that up.

[daveallan81]

There were more wee leagues going on. The East Anglian League and the Western League for certain, but not sure if a Southern Area League was attempted.

 

I know the East Anglian league didn't complete but is there any way to check what matches were raced? The candidates so far are:

 

21/04 Rayleigh v Ipswich 'B' (41-37)

10/06 Norwich 'B' v Yarmouth (48-30)

04/07 Yarmouth v Rayleigh (44-34)

15/07 Norwich 'B' v Rayleigh (30-48)

18/07 Yarmouth v Ipswich 'B' (26-52)

01/08 Yarmouth v Norwich 'B' (39-37)

12/08 Norwich 'B' v Ipswich 'B' (41-36)

 

Please feel free to confirm, add to or subtract from that list.

 

I've got three potential Western League fixtures:

 

08/08 St. Austell v Exeter (42-36)

15/08 St. Austell v Plymouth (26-28)

22/08 St. Austell v Poole (38-40)

 

But I'm not really sure if this league really existed. They used a shortened formula in the Plymouth match which is a bit strange. So has anyone any idea what was going on?

[BL65]

There were more wee leagues going on. The East Anglian League and the Western League for certain, but not sure if a Southern Area League was attempted.

 

I know the East Anglian league didn't complete but is there any way to check what matches were raced? The candidates so far are:

 

21/04 Rayleigh v Ipswich 'B' (41-37)

10/06 Norwich 'B' v Yarmouth (48-30)

04/07 Yarmouth v Rayleigh (44-34)

15/07 Norwich 'B' v Rayleigh (30-48)

18/07 Yarmouth v Ipswich 'B' (26-52)

01/08 Yarmouth v Norwich 'B' (39-37)

12/08 Norwich 'B' v Ipswich 'B' (41-36)

 

Please feel free to confirm, add to or subtract from that list.

 

I've got three potential Western League fixtures:

 

08/08 St. Austell v Exeter (42-36)

15/08 St. Austell v Plymouth (26-28)

22/08 St. Austell v Poole (38-40)

 

But I'm not really sure if this league really existed. They used a shortened formula in the Plymouth match which is a bit strange. So has anyone any idea what was going on?

The East Anglian League fixtures were as listed except for 21/04 when the Rayleigh v Ipswich B meeting was a challenge. Speedway Star published the table on 2nd September confirming that both Norwich B and Yarmouth competed in 4 fixtures and Ipswich B and Rayleigh rode in 2 matches each.

 

As I recall, St Austell ran a short season of open meetings, with the three home meetings referred to being labelled as Western League fixtures to generate supporter interest. It was therefore an informal league, with the other teams not staging home meetings or scheduled to meet each other. The Poole meeting at St Austell was still advertised as 'open' the week before, emphasising the lack of a structured fixture list. The 'league' started with the meeting on 8th August, but Poole finished their home season with their meeting against Wolverhampton on 16th August, having run a short season due to the stadium being required by the football team from late August.

Edited June 16, 2017 by BL65

[daveallan81]

Thanks again for your help.

[BL65]

Thanks again for your help.

I have also found a reference in Speedway Star from 11th March which suggested that a Western Cup competition for Poole, Exeter, Plymouth and St Austell was being considered to be staged in July and August.

Edited June 16, 2017 by BL65