The Riders Who Never Took Your Imagination Over The Years.?

[Sidney the robin]

Strange thread this one Sid but I guess that Kelvin Tatum would be high up on my list.

 

However I don't agree with Rob re:Todd Wiltshire...too one paced, in my opinion, certainly during his latter years.

 

Billy Hamill was another who didn't grab my enthusiasm and, funnily, neither did Tony Rickardsson whom I never saw team ride once (always a great attribute in my view) but perhaps I was just unlucky whenever I saw him ride?

 

Gary 'Motormouth' Havelock was another who I never took too...especially amongst those who went on to become a World Champion.

Tatum and Doncaster were two who went full time in a tough BL and both went on to be very good riders.Like you never a fan of Tatum to be honest, see him ride the pairs with Carter and he blossomed after that and was superb on the longtrack.In that era i rated Eviits (he underachieved) and later on Louis/Loram both terrific riders.

[steve roberts]

Tatum and Doncaster were two who went full time in a tough BL and both went on to be very good riders.Like you never a fan of Tatum to be honest, see him ride the pairs with Carter and he blossomed after that and was superb on the longtrack.In that era i rated Eviits (he underachieved) and later on Louis/Loram both terrific riders.

I was a never a great fan of Chris Louis (can't quite put my finger on it) and, I'd agree, Neil Evitts underachieved but perhaps my views are biased due to his occasional run ins at Cowley!

 

Used to tickle me whenever anybody talks about Mark Loram that his gating let him down. On numerous occasions when I saw him up against Hans Nielsen he was often first out of the gate!

Edited May 21, 2017 by steve roberts

[Sidney the robin]

I was a never a great fan of Chris Louis (can't quite put my finger on it) and, I'd agree, Neil Evitts underachieved but perhaps my views are biased due to his occasional run ins at Cowley!

 

Used to tickle me whenever anybody talks about Mark Loram that his gating let him down. On numerous occasions when I saw him up against Hans Nielsen he was often first out of the gate!

Cox who you would know alot more about than me went on and did very well also Dugard who i always rated higher than Silver.Young riders who i had high hopes for but it never quite happened for them were Michael Graves and Ali Stevens(superb style).

[Paulco]

It's the old gating tart thing as opposed to exciting riders who thrill us with their exploits working their way through the field . Greg Hancock for example , great rider and seemingly able to defy old Father Time , but i'm sorry he doesn't get the juices flowing the way a Darcy Ward or a Tomas Gollob did .

[steve roberts]

Cox who you would know alot more about than me went on and did very well also Dugard who i always rated higher than Silver.Young riders who i had high hopes for but it never quite happened for them were Michael Graves and Ali Stevens(superb style).

Both Marvyn Cox and Martin Dugard should have achieved greater things in my opinion.

 

Marvyn began to mark time at Cowley and we saw the best of him as an Oxford rider in 1986 in my view.

 

Martin, on the over hand, should have taken a winter or two tour to Australia (something Gordon Kennett also commented upon in an interview) so as to develop his all round ability on different tracks. Martin has also been quoted as saying that he should have gone to Cradley rather than Oxford but I disagree with that view...as I would being an Oxford fan! Personally I think that it was a mistake for him to go back to Eastbourne when Oxford dropped out of the British League.

[britmet]

.
There was a rider that never took my imagination, but he so little impressed me that I forget his name.
.

[fatface]

 

Always tricky to judge riders who had a full career against those with an interrupted one, so it comes down to judgement.

 

Crump senior and Adams were consistently great riders, but never quite got to World Champion.

 

On the other hand, I feel Wiltshire would have been one of the outstanding riders of the mid 90s period, without his injury. It's not out of the question to imagine him winning one or two or even more World titles.

 

He had an edge on the world stage that Crump snr and Adams lacked - he could raise his game on the big stage. He demonstrated that when he was the best rider on show in the 1990 World Pairs (Leigh Adams had a decent meeting, but nowhere as good as Todd's) and then finished third in the World Final at Bradford. Just imagine if he'd been in a position to build on that.

 

All the best

Rob

I'm alongside those finding this a bit perplexing. Sure Todd Wiltshire did well in 1990. He scraped through to the final, but did well in his only appearance. And as much as I enjoyed that 1990 final, it was was missing Gundersen, Pedersen, Ermolenko who had all succumbed to injury in the 12 months previous. It's a final Nielsen should have won with his eyes closed, but that's another story. Wiltshire was also well outscored by Craig Boyce, Troy Butler, Leigh Adams and Stephen Davies for the Aussies in that year's World Cup. The following year, he was eliminated at the Overseas Final stage. So, it was shame he missed some of his peak years with the subsequent injury. But a potential multiple World Champion? Hmmm. That's stretching it. Both Phil Crump and Leigh Adams were missing the X factor that makes world champions, but they were both in the world's top 10-20 riders for at least a decade each and belong in the top tier of Aussie riders ever. Wiltshire for me, is more aligned with say, Craig Boyce and Jason Lyons.

[Sidney the robin]

I'm alongside those finding this a bit perplexing. Sure Todd Wiltshire did well in 1990. He scraped through to the final, but did well in his only appearance. And as much as I enjoyed that 1990 final, it was was missing Gundersen, Pedersen, Ermolenko who had all succumbed to injury in the 12 months previous. It's a final Nielsen should have won with his eyes closed, but that's another story. Wiltshire was also well outscored by Craig Boyce, Troy Butler, Leigh Adams and Stephen Davies for the Aussies in that year's World Cup. The following year, he was eliminated at the Overseas Final stage. So, it was shame he missed some of his peak years with the subsequent injury. But a potential multiple World Champion? Hmmm. That's stretching it. Both Phil Crump and Leigh Adams were missing the X factor that makes world champions, but they were both in the world's top 10-20 riders for at least a decade each and belong in the top tier of Aussie riders ever. Wiltshire for me, is more aligned with say, Craig Boyce and Jason Lyons.

Crump senior Adams ,Airey,Sullivan were all better than Wiltshire by quite along way in my book.

[The White Knight]

I think Phil Crump would have won a World Title if he had kept his Neil Street Four-Valve under wraps for the Final in 1976.

 

He didn't and it cost him dearly in my book.

 

Actually it is probably just well he didn't - Peter Collins and Malcolm Simmons were first and second that year.

[TonyMac]

I think Phil Crump would have won a World Title if he had kept his Neil Street Four-Valve under wraps for the Final in 1976.

 

He didn't and it cost him dearly in my book.

 

Actually it is probably just well he didn't - Peter Collins and Malcolm Simmons were first and second that year.

 

Phil (whom we've interviewed in the next issue of Backtrack, by the way) did in fact use the Street/Jawa SR4 engine in British and international meetings throughout 1975 - around 18 months before the '76 World Final.

 

The thing about Phil, and many other stars of his era, is, winning the world title wasn't the be all and end all. Some thrived more in a team environment rather than as single-minded individuals. As history suggests, only a relative few riders possessed the temperament and commitment to make it to the very top.

 

 

Edited May 22, 2017 by tmc

[waiheke1]

I think Phil Crump would have won a World Title if he had kept his Neil Street Four-Valve under wraps for the Final in 1976.

 

He didn't and it cost him dearly in my book.

 

Actually it is probably just well he didn't - Peter Collins and Malcolm Simmons were first and second that year.

Out by a year, 75 is the year he could have done it.

 

Personally I would have Holder ahead of Sanders,Crump snr and Wiltshire.

I'd be tempted to include Darcy ahead of them as well, albeit on ability rather than achievements.

[steve roberts]

Out by a year, 75 is the year he could have done it.

 

Personally I would have Holder ahead of Sanders,Crump snr and Wiltshire.

I'd be tempted to include Darcy ahead of them as well, albeit on ability rather than achievements.

Never saw Holder ride and I realise that he won a World Championship but I would never have placed him above Sanders and Crump, personally, in the overall scheme of things...but then my view is totally biased!

Edited May 23, 2017 by steve roberts

[billybikespeedway]

For Me its Peter Collins didn't Try at Somerton Park ,When he he could be bothered to turn up , so many times broke down on route,I know it was not the best track ,but other riders came with the attitude "its there to be ridden so lets get on with it "

[Guest compost]

For me I never took to anyone riding for the opposition but always (with one exception) thought the world of the riders in the team I supported (Reading).

 

The only Racer I never thought much of was Jessup - never a team man in my view always out for himself not the team. Just the view of a youngster watching on.

 

Mind you I would (and still will) cheer on any Englishman, or team, in an international event whatever domestic team they rode for.

[TonyMac]

Ivan Mauger - great Rider that he undoubtedly was, didn't really do anything for me.

 

Briggo, however, was my hero.

 

Just shows differing opinions. Others who didn't do anything for me were Jessup, Lee, Olsen, Muller, Kennett (G).

 

Other favourites were Ronnie Moore, Malcolm Simmons, Terry Betts, Peter Collins and Chris Morton.

 

Some strange choices there, TWK, but each to their own.

 

Between his debut season 1975 and going off the rails completely in the mid-80s, Lee was great value - not just in terms of his points scoring for King's Lynn and his individual achievements, but for making things happen in a meeting and being one of England's all-time greats. His motorcycling skill was world class.

 

The more 'new' old footage of Gordon Kennett I see (we've just uncovered a mountain of action cine film of him at his best for Oxford and White City), the more I appreciate just how good he was and also how much he always put into his racing, especially given his diabetic condition since 1979. Considering he spent most of his life with two small track teams, Eastbourne and Oxford, he learned to adapt and master the big 'uns too. I don't think him finishing second to Olsen at Wembley in '78 was a fluke and believe he has still never been given the full credit he deserved for his contribution to the sport over many years.

 

The riders who never got me excited were the renowned gaters, 'one trick ponies', who were hard to beat when they made the gate but rarely did anything from the back and achieved relatively little in terms of big titles . . . the likes of Larry Ross and Jan Andersson. Does Jessup deserve to be in this category? Probably. I can't decide. You look at THAT epic Heat 10 from the 1974 World Team Cup final and you would never have him down as a trapper incapable of coming from the back.

 

Nielsen and Gundersen were consistently quick starters but could pass people when they really needed to, and they made the most of their starting technique by winning big.

Edited May 23, 2017 by tmc

[Split]

Ronnie Moore, Cyril Brine, Ron How, Gerald Jackson, Bob Andrews, Cyril Maidment and Jim Tebby.

 

Look to my avatar for an explanation.

[norbold]

Ronnie Moore, Cyril Brine, Ron How, Gerald Jackson, Bob Andrews, Cyril Maidment and Jim Tebby.

 

Look to my avatar for an explanation.

I fully sympathise with you, Split!

[The White Knight]

Ronnie Moore, Cyril Brine, Ron How, Gerald Jackson, Bob Andrews, Cyril Maidment and Jim Tebby.

 

Look to my avatar for an explanation.

No 'Split' Waterman. :shock:

[iris123]

I'd say,Jessup,Simmo,Ray Wilson.Latter day Ulamek,Walasek,Hampel,Hancock and Bjarne Pedersen.I'd also go with Jan Andersson.He seemed so boring after some of the great Swedish riders who preceded him

[Sidney the robin]

I'd say,Jessup,Simmo,Ray Wilson.Latter day Ulamek,Walasek,Hampel,Hancock and Bjarne Pedersen.I'd also go with Jan Andersson.He seemed so boring after some of the great Swedish riders who preceded him

Very surprised you said Simmo and Ray Wilson Iris for me they were in my alltime favourites.