StevePark Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Don't let the public know he's being replaced by a junior... until they've paid their dosh and have taken their seats. And p**s them off even more? Brilliant idea. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) Would it be easier to accept, if guests for top men came from outside of the UK? We talk about squad systems, but surely there could be a way for men who don't ride in the UK to put in a rare appearance. It wouldn't seem so bizarre to outsiders I bet, having, say, Pedersen coming in for Doyle? They'd be no conflict of interests, and replacements for missing middle-order riders could be promoted from lower down the club, even club juniors. And p**s them off even more? Brilliant idea. Said it as a pee take.. as I know it's been done and, I bet you, when it was done... peed people off enough that they eventually became ex-fans. Edited May 23, 2017 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevePark Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Said it as a pee take.. as I know it's been done and, I bet you, when it was done... peed people off enough that they eventually became ex-fans. OK. Whoosh moment there then! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 OK. Whoosh moment there then! I'm too fast for my own good sometimes.... that's what the missus says anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) There is no viable alternative to cover missing number ones.Rr for other hl is fine (or guest if more than 1 misding). Fixed race nights (2 nights EL, rest for PL) would remove the guest for DU issue. Missing 2nd string/reserve should be covered by designated number 8 or local junior. Don't see a viable way to eliminate guests, but they certainly could be minimised. Remember back in the 80s of both sides were misding a number one they would agree to replace with a local junior. Today people would know in advance and attendances would be hit hard. This is my point we have had years and years trying to find better ways ..the trouble no one has come up with anything better and workable and that includes tons and tons of topics on the subject ...I know there are more guests now and double up and down riders but speedway has had massive crowds when we had guests, so I don't buy but this credibility guff ..it's the same when mainly old fans go about the double points etc stupid and unfair rules were around when speedway was massive . . Edited May 23, 2017 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 This is my point we have had years and years trying to find better ways ..the trouble no one has come up with anything better and workable and that includes tons and tons of topics on the subject ...I know there are more guests now and double up and down riders but speedway has had massive crowds when we had guests, so I don't buy but this credibility guff ..it's the same when mainly old fans go about the double points etc stupid and unfair rules were around when speedway was massive . . Stupid enough - but not quite as stupid as Double Points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Blachshadow Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Would it be easier to accept, if guests for top men came from outside of the UK? We talk about squad systems, but surely there could be a way for men who don't ride in the UK to put in a rare appearance. It wouldn't seem so bizarre to outsiders I bet, having, say, Pedersen coming in for Doyle? They'd be no conflict of interests, and replacements for missing middle-order riders could be promoted from lower down the club, even club juniors. With air fares to pay for one match over here. Can't see that taking off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) This is my point we have had years and years trying to find better ways ..the trouble no one has come up with anything better and workable and that includes tons and tons of topics on the subject ...I know there are more guests now and double up and down riders but speedway has had massive crowds when we had guests, so I don't buy but this credibility guff ..it's the same when mainly old fans go about the double points etc stupid and unfair rules were around when speedway was massive . .As mentioned before in the 'olden days' you turned up, paid your money and found that PC was riding in Germany the next day in a Longtrack meeting so a guest was replacing him... You were a bit peed off but you had paid your hard earned so that was that.. Nowadays the Internet will avail you with the details 24 hours earlier hence it gives the fans time to decide if worth attending or not.. What Speedway 'got away with' then, it cannot now.. There is no viable alternative to cover missing number ones.Rr for other hl is fine (or guest if more than 1 misding). Fixed race nights (2 nights EL, rest for PL) would remove the guest for DU issue. Missing 2nd string/reserve should be covered by designated number 8 or local junior. Don't see a viable way to eliminate guests, but they certainly could be minimised. Remember back in the 80s of both sides were misding a number one they would agree to replace with a local junior. Today people would know in advance and attendances would be hit hard. I would say missing No1's (with a proper RR facilty) could be missed more now in the top division than ever before.. The No1 generally doesnt score 25 - 35% of his teams points anymore (like so many used to in the top league), and there is much less disparity between a teams' one to five than ever before I would say.. We used to have 11 point plus average men scoring loads of points riding against two point average reserves... Not a common thing in todays top league. .. Edited May 23, 2017 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 With air fares to pay for one match over here. Can't see that taking off. So who pays the airfares now? A rider can dash off to Sweden and back for one match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Blachshadow Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 So who pays the airfares now? A rider can dash off to Sweden and back for one match. I'd say a contracted rider's air fare arrangements are different to a one-off guest booking for a rider not already riding here. He's not going to pay out of his own pocket to come here and ride one match. Then there's the machinery issue - a rider not contracted over here already isn't likely to have any (decent) bikes over here gathering dust waiting for possibly two or three matches a season. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Snackette Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 With air fares to pay for one match over here. Can't see that taking off. Next Wednesday Stockholm / London 39€ return. I don't think that would break the bank to fly in a guest who was racing in Sweden the night before!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 It's ok flying a rider in but whatabout all his equipment? This will never work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Blachshadow Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Next Wednesday Stockholm / London 39€ return. I don't think that would break the bank to fly in a guest who was racing in Sweden the night before!!! Maybe, but I've flown to GPs with national airlines and I've gone over with Ryanair. I've been on the same plane as several riders a time or two. Guess which airlines they flew with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronScorpion Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 There is no viable alternative to cover missing number ones.Rr for other hl is fine (or guest if more than 1 misding). Fixed race nights (2 nights EL, rest for PL) would remove the guest for DU issue. Missing 2nd string/reserve should be covered by designated number 8 or local junior. Don't see a viable way to eliminate guests, but they certainly could be minimised. Remember back in the 80s of both sides were misding a number one they would agree to replace with a local junior. Today people would know in advance and attendances would be hit hard. Very similar to my post Posted 19 May 2017 - 12:00 PM mikebv has come up with some good ideas which work in other leagues, so we must try to adapt some in our leagues. I am an advocate of trying to have 2 fixed nights for the Premiership as it worked before when Sky were in town for the old EL to race on Mondays & Wednesdays. The Championship then can ride on other nights minimising the use of guests. This is difficult due to teams not owning arenas but renting. 5 man & 6 man teams work abroad so could be tried here as not enough riders to go round if doubling up/down still to be used. If riders are unavailable then use the IRR facility where 1 rider above & any rider below can take their rides. A no8 to be named in case of further injuries during a meeting where he takes the reserves rides if a reserve will take his maximum of 7 rides. If 2 riders missing then a "guest" to be used who is not in a declared team in the subsequent league. Unattached or riders coming back from injury could then get rides. Let us not forget that there is a new committee trying to change previous rules of running the sport but Rome was not built in a day. Some will work & some might not & what works in Poland, Denmark & Sweden might work over here. Their leagues are not perfect with non payment of wages, clubs in administration but they have, mainly, fixed race nights that work, alternative race nights for different leagues, squad systems, gradings or points limits. These are areas that we have used in some ways but just needs tweaking. Let us not make the sport too difficult to understand & follow but make it more entertaining at the right price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 (edited) Next Wednesday Stockholm / London 39 return. I don't think that would break the bank to fly in a guest who was racing in Sweden the night before!!!Handy for all those riding for London clubs... just to confirm, for that price you can check two speedway bikes as your luggage? Edited May 24, 2017 by waihekeaces1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScotsman Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 That's an extra £5 for the pair. But of course you might already have bikes over there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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