Somerset V Wolves Friday 5th May 19;30

[stevebrum]

Steve, nothing wrong with team changes, what is wrong is when riders are brought in on an old or assessed average that does not reflect their current form.

We could easily have a fair and transparent system by working

out a formula to convert current foreign league averages to Premiership or Championship averages.

I understand that you are in favour of bringing in some of those riders who have deserted the UK. I have nothing against that when they are prepared to commit to a full season here but don't want to see them here when they are just using the UK because their season has effectively finished in Poland and/or Sweden.

On a different topic it is good to see that fans again enjoyed the quality of racing at Somerset. If the sport is to thrive all tracks should be doing their utmost to produce the best racing track they can.

I can only agree with that. It would be pretty easy to calculate their foreign teams averages into a workable one to use in the UK. Would seem a fair way. Particularly if a rider hasn't ridden in the UK for 2 seasons.

It does seem they have sorted a system of new or former top flight riders returning to the league if last season's assessed 7 for Lindback is to be maintained but as with anything BSPA related it can change as and when to suit which is the worst issue.

[Gresham]

Some thought provoking posts on this thread.

 

There was a time when I knew every riders name, who they rode for, and studied the averages. It also used to mean something if my team won.

 

Now...all I'm interested in, is watching four blokes race their hearts out, give their all, and to be entertained and exhilarated in the same way I did in my youth.

 

Winning the league or even some meetings means nothing imo...as the rules make everything so hollow.

 

If it were two teams of riders on similar machinery and similar skill, winning races purely from their track craft, then I'd get it. But so often it's not....and over a season it just means less and less. Watered down.

 

It has nothing to do with who has the best team of skilled riders over a season imo.

 

It's all about being clever with averages, RR's, Guests, who has the fastest and best tuned machinery, not so much the skill of the riders at this level. ( for example we all know Tungate is far better than his current average, not because he's lost form, but because of machinery ) Had he had better machinery, it's highly possible that Somerset would have won their last three home meetings.

 

Then you have the farce of coming fourth in a league of 8 teams, and having the chance to win the league and become Champions.

 

Take all those things into consideration, and I'm really not sure how anyone can feel great about being Champions.

 

The same can be said of other motorsports like F1...all the drivers are pretty much the same standard...the same in certain levels of Speedway. It's purely the engine that dictates who wins to much of a degree.

 

Thankfully....the Oak tree gives great racing every week. I'm thankful for that. Give me great racing any day, over rules and regs and what team has won. Hopefully there are likeminded fans at Somerset, who wont leave in their droves if Somerset continue to lose, as they've got used to winning.

 

Seeing Josh, Charles, Jake and Starkey and last season BWD riding with such determination and skill, even if they don't have the very best engines, is worth every penny imo.

 

Just enjoy the racing for what it is and forget about all the silly rules is now my motto ;-)

[847084]

Food for thought. Two of my favourite tracks in the 70s were Hyde Rd and Saddlebow Rd. I did wonder more than once which fans (in some seasons ) enjoyed the more exciting racing. I am thinking of a number of years when Belle Vue had all conquering teams but enjoyed very many landslide home wins. Scores over 50 were very regular. I watched Wolves there many times and a score of 26 was comprised Olsen 15, Hunter 5 then 2, 1 etc. The racing was not brilliant. King's Lynn on the other hand won nothing but saw close results and, presumably, closer racing. I guess in an ideal world you would have both. But speedway has never existed in such a place.

 

One further comment on last night: I wont be the only Wolves fan who can remember teams in the past with more than three guests!

[Starman2006]

Some thought provoking posts on this thread.

 

There was a time when I knew every riders name, who they rode for, and studied the averages. It also used to mean something if my team won.

 

Now...all I'm interested in, is watching four blokes race their hearts out, give their all, and to be entertained and exhilarated in the same way I did in my youth.

 

Winning the league or even some meetings means nothing imo...as the rules make everything so hollow.

 

Just enjoy the racing for what it is and forget about all the silly rules is now my motto ;-)

Couldn't agree more..

[EnglishRoundabout]

Some thought provoking posts on this thread.

 

There was a time when I knew every riders name, who they rode for, and studied the averages. It also used to mean something if my team won.

 

Now...all I'm interested in, is watching four blokes race their hearts out, give their all, and to be entertained and exhilarated in the same way I did in my youth.

 

Winning the league or even some meetings means nothing imo...as the rules make everything so hollow.

 

If it were two teams of riders on similar machinery and similar skill, winning races purely from their track craft, then I'd get it. But so often it's not....and over a season it just means less and less. Watered down.

 

It has nothing to do with who has the best team of skilled riders over a season imo.

 

It's all about being clever with averages, RR's, Guests, who has the fastest and best tuned machinery, not so much the skill of the riders at this level. ( for example we all know Tungate is far better than his current average, not because he's lost form, but because of machinery ) Had he had better machinery, it's highly possible that Somerset would have won their last three home meetings.

 

Gresh, have you taken some happy pills this season? Some excellent posts so far!!

 

Then you have the farce of coming fourth in a league of 8 teams, and having the chance to win the league and become Champions.

 

Take all those things into consideration, and I'm really not sure how anyone can feel great about being Champions.

 

The same can be said of other motorsports like F1...all the drivers are pretty much the same standard...the same in certain levels of Speedway. It's purely the engine that dictates who wins to much of a degree.

 

Thankfully....the Oak tree gives great racing every week. I'm thankful for that. Give me great racing any day, over rules and regs and what team has won. Hopefully there are likeminded fans at Somerset, who wont leave in their droves if Somerset continue to lose, as they've got used to winning.

 

Seeing Josh, Charles, Jake and Starkey and last season BWD riding with such determination and skill, even if they don't have the very best engines, is worth every penny imo.

 

Just enjoy the racing for what it is and forget about all the silly rules is now my motto ;-)

Gresh, have you taken some happy pills this season? Some excellent posts.

[SteveZodiac]

 

Sod the result and the silly rules...Speedway Racing won tonight.

 

As a travelling Wolves fan it was nice to see us win.

 

However the most important thing was watching some great entertaining racing - definitely the best I've seen this year.

 

I hope that Somerset are able to find some decent replacements for their underperforming riders as they deserve success equally for their ambition in moving up and for providing excellent racing on a great track.

[Paulco]

Could of been either or really. I don't think I've seen Jake Allen make a decent start all season so far, but you always feel abit more comfortable with him than Jan and generally normally looks quicker, even though his points tally doesn't show that. I mean that with no disrespect intended to Jan, who put in another good performance tonight and should be praised for that.

 

After losing to Swindon and Kings Lynn I went home wondering how we had lost both matches after feeling pretty comfortable in those matches - but tonight we never really seemed like winning right from the first heat. Praise must go to Josh Grajczonek again, simply sensational especially his heat 4 win from the back on Richie Worrall. I've never seen him ride so well as what he is around the OTA this year. After Josh and Jan I'm struggling to find much positives though. Rohan looked so much quicker than he has the past few weeks, but that's clutching at straws abit as again he just can't get out of the start. One has to wonder if we've witnessed Paul Starke's last home meeting for the rebels tonight too.

 

What happpened when Charles Wright came to grief? I wasn't watching him and just caught him hitting the deck very awkwardly. Glad he was okay as was at full speed at the end of the straight.

Looked like a chain went by the way he came to a sudden stop .

I know the Rebels fans round about me were disappointed ( understandably ) but from a neutral's perspective it was a brilliant night's racing . Some of the high speed action with four riders within a bike length was breathtaking and it's tracks like this that remind us why we have this sport in our blood .

Rebels aren't far away , just lacking a big hitter at number 1 . However Josh Grajczonek was brilliant in taking the fight to the Wolves .

Wolves were more solid and always seemed to have the meeting under control . Schlein was wheel perfect after a poor first ride and had excellent back up from Thorssell , Howarth , Lambert and our Richie . And it's the best I've seen Ellis Perks ride , he's improving fast .

Brilliant night overall and great to see some old friends . And I think the Scottish referee was pleased to see a couple of familiar faces in the bar as he joined us for a drink , though I had to chastise him for holding the tapes a bit too long on a couple of occasions .

And thanks to the lovely Debbie for the lift back to our B and B , much appreciated as it was very late . You don't get promoters doing that at many tracks

I love going to Somerset , great racing and some of the friendliest fans in the country , it's a joy to visit the Oak Tree , roll on the Pairs .

[hyderd]

 

As a travelling Wolves fan it was nice to see us win.

 

However the most important thing was watching some great entertaining racing - definitely the best I've seen this year.

 

I hope that Somerset are able to find some decent replacements for their underperforming riders as they deserve success equally for their ambition in moving up and for providing excellent racing on a great track.

 

Couldn't agree with you more, I visited TOTA whilst on holiday and thoroughly enjoyed the meeting good,close,fast speedway. I was well pleased that they moved up to the top league (apart from last Monday. lol)

[mikebv]

Some thought provoking posts on this thread.

 

There was a time when I knew every riders name, who they rode for, and studied the averages. It also used to mean something if my team won.

 

Now...all I'm interested in, is watching four blokes race their hearts out, give their all, and to be entertained and exhilarated in the same way I did in my youth.

 

Winning the league or even some meetings means nothing imo...as the rules make everything so hollow.

 

If it were two teams of riders on similar machinery and similar skill, winning races purely from their track craft, then I'd get it. But so often it's not....and over a season it just means less and less. Watered down.

 

It has nothing to do with who has the best team of skilled riders over a season imo.

 

It's all about being clever with averages, RR's, Guests, who has the fastest and best tuned machinery, not so much the skill of the riders at this level. ( for example we all know Tungate is far better than his current average, not because he's lost form, but because of machinery ) Had he had better machinery, it's highly possible that Somerset would have won their last three home meetings.

 

Then you have the farce of coming fourth in a league of 8 teams, and having the chance to win the league and become Champions.

 

Take all those things into consideration, and I'm really not sure how anyone can feel great about being Champions.

 

The same can be said of other motorsports like F1...all the drivers are pretty much the same standard...the same in certain levels of Speedway. It's purely the engine that dictates who wins to much of a degree.

 

Thankfully....the Oak tree gives great racing every week. I'm thankful for that. Give me great racing any day, over rules and regs and what team has won. Hopefully there are likeminded fans at Somerset, who wont leave in their droves if Somerset continue to lose, as they've got used to winning.

 

Seeing Josh, Charles, Jake and Starkey and last season BWD riding with such determination and skill, even if they don't have the very best engines, is worth every penny imo.

 

Just enjoy the racing for what it is and forget about all the silly rules is now my motto ;-)

Which is basically saying "I give up on League racing ever being fit for purpose in Britain so I will just watch the Speedway itself'!...

 

And you are most probably 100% right...

 

Speedway can be truly great when you get four riders per heat of similar ability, yet this proves almost impossible to deliver consistently in League racing, therefore maybe the sport should just face up to reality and go 'individual' only?

 

Tracks could run say 16 meetings a year with the sixteen riders earning a an average of £750 a night each as a basic (more for 'top riders', less for 'lower grades') then put up say an extra £10k prize pot for the top four finalists...?

 

£22k a night in total, charge £17 admission and after VAT you need circa 1500 adults to break even without sponsorship..

 

No guests, no RR, no Mickey Mouse rules, a fixture list to encourage regular visits, and plenty of track time and income for British riders which can only help the National team (and deliver the increased media coverage a successful sporting National team brings). Any rider riding five nights a week could earn well over £3k a week and thats without ever reaching a final...

 

Bang in the odd heavily promoted and marketed 'annual special' at each track where only the 'top riders' are invited, and the prize fund increases accordingly, and maybe both promoters and riders will start to make money...?

 

Bottom line with 'team speedway' is, (like anything that relies on a repeated loyal customer base and their income to succeed), "if you can't do it properly, then don't do it at all"!...

 

As quite simply in the long run, you will be 100% bound to fail..

Edited May 7, 2017 by mikebv

[keef robin]

Looked like a chain went by the way he came to a sudden stop .

I know the Rebels fans round about me were disappointed ( understandably ) but from a neutral's perspective it was a brilliant night's racing . Some of the high speed action with four riders within a bike length was breathtaking and it's tracks like this that remind us why we have this sport in our blood .

Rebels aren't far away , just lacking a big hitter at number 1 . However Josh Grajczonek was brilliant in taking the fight to the Wolves .

Wolves were more solid and always seemed to have the meeting under control . Schlein was wheel perfect after a poor first ride and had excellent back up from Thorssell , Howarth , Lambert and our Richie . And it's the best I've seen Ellis Perks ride , he's improving fast .

Brilliant night overall and great to see some old friends . And I think the Scottish referee was pleased to see a couple of familiar faces in the bar as he joined us for a drink , though I had to chastise him for holding the tapes a bit too long on a couple of occasions .

And thanks to the lovely Debbie for the lift back to our B and B , much appreciated as it was very late . You don't get promoters doing that at many tracks

I love going to Somerset , great racing and some of the friendliest fans in the country , it's a joy to visit the Oak Tree , roll on the Pairs .

Certainly some friendly fans and a friendly goat! The race I saw between Josh G and Doyley a couple of weeks ago was one of the best ever. Superb arena and if all racing and clubs were like this speedway wouldn't be on such a downer. No better sport for me when you see this kind of entertainment.

Hope the Rebs fans don't give up on them because of their poor home results.

What size crowds are they getting at OTA?

Edited May 7, 2017 by beefy keefy

[BWitcher]

Which is basically saying "I give up on League racing ever being fit for purpose in Britain so I will just watch the Speedway itself'!...

 

And you are most probably 100% right...

 

Speedway can be truly great when you get four riders per heat of similar ability, yet this proves almost impossible to deliver consistently in League racing, therefore maybe the sport should just face up to reality and go 'individual' only?

 

Tracks could run say 16 meetings a year with the sixteen riders earning a an average of £750 a night each as a basic (more for 'top riders', less for 'lower grades') then put up say an extra £10k prize pot for the top four finalists...?

 

£22k a night in total, charge £17 admission and after VAT you need circa 1500 adults to break even without sponsorship..

 

No guests, no RR, no Mickey Mouse rules, a fixture list to encourage regular visits, and plenty of track time and income for British riders which can only help the National team (and deliver the increased media coverage a successful sporting National team brings). Any rider riding five nights a week could earn well over £3k a week and thats without ever reaching a final...

 

Bang in the odd heavily promoted and marketed 'annual special' at each track where only the 'top riders' are invited, and the prize fund increases accordingly, and maybe both promoters and riders will start to make money...?

 

Bottom line with 'team speedway' is, (like anything that relies on a repeated loyal customer base and their income to succeed), "if you can't do it properly, then don't do it at all"!...

 

As quite simply in the long run, you will be 100% bound to fail..

 

That's a sure fire way to shut the sport down.

[Najjer]

Certainly some friendly fans and a friendly goat! The race I saw between Josh G and Doyley a couple of weeks ago was one of the best ever. Superb arena and if all racing and clubs were like this speedway wouldn't be on such a downer. No better sport for me when you see this kind of entertainment.

Hope the Rebs fans don't give up on them because of their poor home results.

What size crowds are they getting at OTA?

I wasn't at the Leicester cup match, but for the visits of Poole, Swindon and Wolves plenty of cars have been in the second car park especially on Good Friday which has to be the biggest crowd ever for a league match at Somerset. Just to put that into perspective I can't recall over the past couple of seasons for a standard league meeting ever being in the second car park so crowds are without doubt up. Poole, Swindon and Wolves are all relatively 'close' which helps too with additional away fans attending.

 

As has been said, i really hope crowds don't start to drop because of some loses - and I have no doubt the Somerset promotion will do everything within their power to ensure that doesn't happen. They've never been afraid to be ruthless with regards team changes in the past and I don't see that stopping now.

 

That's a sure fire way to shut the sport down.

I'd agree with that.

 

I love watching speedway in general, but it'd never have the same appeal to me if it wasn't following my team. I'd take a standard meeting watching Somerset over watching a GP at Cardiff just for the hell of it with no team to follow, any night of the week....

[poolebolton]

 

That's a sure fire way to shut the sport down.

I agree. Not enough UK riders to justify that.

 

The top 30 riders in the world earn about a Million pounds a year.

 

Big names like C.Holder earn about 2 mil

 

Would not surprise me if Magic J is the highest paid speedway rider in the world due to his name in Poland and the sponsors he has.

[NeilWatson]

Which is basically saying "I give up on League racing ever being fit for purpose in Britain so I will just watch the Speedway itself'!...

 

And you are most probably 100% right...

 

Speedway can be truly great when you get four riders per heat of similar ability, yet this proves almost impossible to deliver consistently in League racing, therefore maybe the sport should just face up to reality and go 'individual' only?

 

Tracks could run say 16 meetings a year with the sixteen riders earning a an average of £750 a night each as a basic (more for 'top riders', less for 'lower grades') then put up say an extra £10k prize pot for the top four finalists...?

 

£22k a night in total, charge £17 admission and after VAT you need circa 1500 adults to break even without sponsorship..

 

No guests, no RR, no Mickey Mouse rules, a fixture list to encourage regular visits, and plenty of track time and income for British riders which can only help the National team (and deliver the increased media coverage a successful sporting National team brings). Any rider riding five nights a week could earn well over £3k a week and thats without ever reaching a final...

 

Bang in the odd heavily promoted and marketed 'annual special' at each track where only the 'top riders' are invited, and the prize fund increases accordingly, and maybe both promoters and riders will start to make money...?

 

Bottom line with 'team speedway' is, (like anything that relies on a repeated loyal customer base and their income to succeed), "if you can't do it properly, then don't do it at all"!...

 

As quite simply in the long run, you will be 100% bound to fail..

Add in the costs of rent, insurance, staff costs, tyres, track preparation, equipment maintenance, mileage etc etc and the break-even point is nearer 2000.

[EnglishRoundabout]

Certainly some friendly fans and a friendly goat! The race I saw between Josh G and Doyley a couple of weeks ago was one of the best ever. Superb arena and if all racing and clubs were like this speedway wouldn't be on such a downer. No better sport for me when you see this kind of entertainment.

Hope the Rebs fans don't give up on them because of their poor home results.

What size crowds are they getting at OTA?

It's rare that Somerset sell out of programmes Keef. But this has happened on at least one occasion this season. The crowds so far have been easily up on the title winning season last year.

 

Interesting also to see quite a few Swindon fans attending this year too. Maybe they had their appetite wetted after watching the swindon match.

 

Proper speedway. Great entertainment every week.

[keef robin]

It's rare that Somerset sell out of programmes Keef. But this has happened on at least one occasion this season. The crowds so far have been easily up on the title winning season last year.

Interesting also to see quite a few Swindon fans attending this year too. Maybe they had their appetite wetted after watching the swindon match.

Proper speedway. Great entertainment every week.

I would go more often if it was nearer.

[Gresham]

Which is basically saying "I give up on League racing ever being fit for purpose in Britain so I will just watch the Speedway itself'!...

 

And you are most probably 100% right...

 

Speedway can be truly great when you get four riders per heat of similar ability, yet this proves almost impossible to deliver consistently in League racing, therefore maybe the sport should just face up to reality and go 'individual' only?

 

Tracks could run say 16 meetings a year with the sixteen riders earning a an average of £750 a night each as a basic (more for 'top riders', less for 'lower grades') then put up say an extra £10k prize pot for the top four finalists...?

 

£22k a night in total, charge £17 admission and after VAT you need circa 1500 adults to break even without sponsorship..

 

No guests, no RR, no Mickey Mouse rules, a fixture list to encourage regular visits, and plenty of track time and income for British riders which can only help the National team (and deliver the increased media coverage a successful sporting National team brings). Any rider riding five nights a week could earn well over £3k a week and thats without ever reaching a final...

 

Bang in the odd heavily promoted and marketed 'annual special' at each track where only the 'top riders' are invited, and the prize fund increases accordingly, and maybe both promoters and riders will start to make money...?

 

Bottom line with 'team speedway' is, (like anything that relies on a repeated loyal customer base and their income to succeed), "if you can't do it properly, then don't do it at all"!...

 

As quite simply in the long run, you will be 100% bound to fail..

When you actually analyse Club Speedway, it really isn't what it advertises itself as... is it?

 

A team is made up of seven individuals who provide all their own machinery, with the odd exceptions. The Club/Team is reliant on those individuals to provide decent engines and set up.

 

It really is in all honesty...Individual speedway under a 'false banner' of Club speedway, if you get my drift.

 

Club Speedway shot itself in the foot in it's early stages, when it set out it's stall of having riders provide their own equipment. From the very start...Club standardised machinery should have been the norm. It's too late now to turn back the clock, a precedent has been set...and it is how it is.

 

You can be watching many races...and you know in your heart of hearts, that regardless of how well a rider starts, he will be beat by the rider with the best engines and set up in that race. In the modern day....even more so, with the tracks the way they are and the high revving engines.

 

I watch riders who have tremendous ability on a bike and track craft, yet he won't beat a 'lesser' skilled rider because of the difference in engines. It's often frustrating as a spectator to watch.

 

Too much reliance on who has the best engines in speedway imo. Fine in 'Individual' meetings...but in Club League Speedway it just doesn't make sense to me.

 

Hence my now 'nonchalant' way of enjoying League racing. I avoid the regs, rules, averages, just look at the programme to see the riders names and helmet colours, and enjoy watching them race. I don't even bother filling the programme in now either.

 

It works for me doing it this way now....and I enjoy my Speedway much more for it. It's not a habit anymore...I actually look forward to my weekly fix now. Each to their own of course...others will find other ways of enjoying it. Which is cool.

[A ORLOV]

When you actually analyse Club Speedway, it really isn't what it advertises itself as... is it?

 

A team is made up of seven individuals who provide all their own machinery, with the odd exceptions. The Club/Team is reliant on those individuals to provide decent engines and set up.

 

It really is in all honesty...Individual speedway under a 'false banner' of Club speedway, if you get my drift.

 

Club Speedway shot itself in the foot in it's early stages, when it set out it's stall of having riders provide their own equipment. From the very start...Club standardised machinery should have been the norm. It's too late now to turn back the clock, a precedent has been set...and it is how it is.

 

You can be watching many races...and you know in your heart of hearts, that regardless of how well a rider starts, he will be beat by the rider with the best engines and set up in that race. In the modern day....even more so, with the tracks the way they are and the high revving engines.

 

I watch riders who have tremendous ability on a bike and track craft, yet he won't beat a 'lesser' skilled rider because of the difference in engines. It's often frustrating as a spectator to watch.

 

Too much reliance on who has the best engines in speedway imo. Fine in 'Individual' meetings...but in Club League Speedway it just doesn't make sense to me.

 

Hence my now 'nonchalant' way of enjoying League racing. I avoid the regs, rules, averages, just look at the programme to see the riders names and helmet colours, and enjoy watching them race. I don't even bother filling the programme in now either.

 

It works for me doing it this way now....and I enjoy my Speedway much more for it. It's not a habit anymore...I actually look forward to my weekly fix now. Each to their own of course...others will find other ways of enjoying it. Which is cool.

Which is why it is a complete joke that a club can claim to own a rider, as an asset, after they have ridden for them so many times.

[Gemini]

 

 

.....Najjer............I'd agree with that.

I love watching speedway in general, but it'd never have the same appeal to me if it wasn't following my team. I'd take a standard meeting watching Somerset over watching a GP at Cardiff just for the hell of it with no team to follow, any night of the week....

 

Me too. I have pretty much zero interest in individual racing, including the G.P's. It's got to be team events for me even if I'm watching as a neutral.

[IronScorpion]

Which is why it is a complete joke that a club can claim to own a rider, as an asset, after they have ridden for them so many times.

It is more of a joke when a club can claim a rider as an asset when they have NEVER ridden for that club