g13webb Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 Having given this point a bit of thought, I wondered if anybody knows how or when this is going to happen. Thinking along the lines of each riders to required 4 H and 4A before a change is implemented could create problems for those riders unable to achieve that cut off. How will teams be allowed to recalculate when they have ridden in less meetings then other... so to be fair, the change over date has to be the same for all teams..... My own thoughts would be to have a cut-off day say 23rd May (approx.) and the new figures to be implemented on the 1st June ( again- approx.) . All thoughts and information welcome... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Surely it is more fair for teams to be able to recalculate based on number of meetings ridden rather than a fixed date. Of course if fixture planning was done well the two should be basically simultaneous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted April 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Surely it is more fair for teams to be able to recalculate based on number of meetings ridden rather than a fixed date. Of course if fixture planning was done well the two should be basically simultaneous. I appreciate that would have been the obvious scenario, but our league is not like that. we have some teams that have had more meetings, we have teams who haven't played away yet, and other who ridden far more away than home, infact we have nothing of any similarity at all. I thought that the 50pt was for team building limit at the start of the season, where riders would either use their PL- CMA, and those without a PL would use their EL ( x 1.4). We were then told once they get their first set of figures all riders would then switch over to the newly acquired average, attained from 2017 and the teams limit be dropped to around 42-43pts. Is the changeover going to be governed by the riders doing 4H/4A, or will it be the Team riding 4H/4A ??? either way it is going to open a tin of worms. A change over date would eliminate all issues about team rebuilding, and would place all teams in the same situation. Teams could plan for the change over if a date was prior made. Ok, some teams will have ridden more than others, but some teams have ridden in Cup and Coventry matches so the situation exists already.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 I agree that all riders should be issued with a new average on the same date. 4H and 4A works in normal circumstances, but given that most riders are on a 40% inflated average, we are not in the rhelm of normal circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 But fewer matches is surely insufficient to give a true representation of a riders ability, and could lead to some major strengthening by some sides? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 does anybody know what's going on ? and I include the bspa , I believe there is a meeting taking place at ACU towers this week to discuss the mess that the new average rules have created Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 and the issues have been apparent before each of the last 4 seasons, and every season people on here have been able to come up pre-season with solutions to make things work, but the BSPA clearly are not competent enough to do so. and this year seems to be the worst of the lot... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 (edited) It was on sky news this morning the education minister is to introduce A level bspa tests into schools , he said " after seeing the equation of 3 points a win x 4 rides = 13 point average we believe this to be a suitable test for young Einsteins everywhere " sky went on to interview Bradford magician Dynamo and he said " even I couldn't have pulled this one off " Edited April 20, 2017 by THE DEAN MACHINE 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me wolfie Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Surely all teams will have to switch at the same time, you couldn't have a situation where team A are using a 50 point limit with riders on inflated averages against team B who are using a 42 point limit with riders on realistic averages, surely even the BSPA wouldn't be that stupid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Surely all teams will have to switch at the same time, you couldn't have a situation where team A are using a 50 point limit with riders on inflated averages against team B who are using a 42 point limit with riders on realistic averages, surely even the BSPA wouldn't be that stupid I assume that is a rhetorical question? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Within the rules it says that if a rider hasn't completed the necessary 4H/4A meetings then the BSPA can issue a revised CMA based on actual meetings ridden - if a team is seeking to redeclare! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 I assume that is a rhetorical question? We can see why you didn't get the job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Surely all teams will have to switch at the same time, you couldn't have a situation where team A are using a 50 point limit with riders on inflated averages against team B who are using a 42 point limit with riders on realistic averages, surely even the BSPA wouldn't be that stupid Not just different teams, but different riders within the same team! What happens to Adam Ellis (for example) who has missed meetings through injury, so will not get a new average at the same time as his teammates? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Not just different teams, but different riders within the same team! What happens to Adam Ellis (for example) who has missed meetings through injury, so will not get a new average at the same time as his teammates? Does KO Cup count towards CMA? I think he just missed cup matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Not just different teams, but different riders within the same team! What happens to Adam Ellis (for example) who has missed meetings through injury, so will not get a new average at the same time as his teammates? could work in your favour.Skidder has pointed out that any riders average can be reassessed by the MC if a team is redeclaring even where that rider hasnt done 4h 4a. So Adam could be given a new ave based on his rides to date. That said the reg has been in place for years. I dont think it has EVER been applied. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me wolfie Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Not just different teams, but different riders within the same team! What happens to Adam Ellis (for example) who has missed meetings through injury, so will not get a new average at the same time as his teammates? All riders in one team would have to change at the same time otherwise how can you work to the new 42 point limit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Does KO Cup count towards CMA? I think he just missed cup matches. You're correct, cup matches don't count and that's all that Adam has missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronScorpion Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 All riders in one team would have to change at the same time otherwise how can you work to the new 42 point limit? The new 42 point limit will be for re-declaration, I would presume. Looking at how Belle Vue have started, for example, after 4H 4A their current squad is over 42, would that mean they would have to change riders because of a good start? I would not think that would apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me wolfie Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 The new 42 point limit will be for re-declaration, I would presume. Looking at how Belle Vue have started, for example, after 4H 4A their current squad is over 42, would that mean they would have to change riders because of a good start? I would not think that would apply. Of course it does, otherwise the new points limit would mean nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 The new 42 point limit will be for re-declaration, I would presume. Looking at how Belle Vue have started, for example, after 4H 4A their current squad is over 42, would that mean they would have to change riders because of a good start? I would not think that would apply. No. It's only if they choose to make changes - then they would have to be below the current points limit or like-for-like changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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