2018 Grand Prix Venues

[Hawk127]

Think they tried with letter bombs back in the 70s and failed miserably.If you live in wales you hold the same passport as someone in England or Scotland until things change,which doesn't seem realistic.You are comparing apples and kiwi fruit

 

The fact is Wales did have a speedway team running at the same time Cardiff was on the GP schedule.....because that closed down we now only have Cardiff

OK concede defeat. Suggest that the final round is held at the off shore haven for tax exiles known as the Isle of Wight. Failing that I see in the Times that Canvey Island are seeking independence. As far as Canvey is concerned, stick some outboard motors on the west side and move it as far out into the Thames/North Sea as is possible. Having lived on the Island for a short while even moving it offshore is too good for it.

[Humphrey Appleby]

The novelty has worn off and riders aren't over-enthusiastic about travelling round the world at the end of a tiring season.

Do F1 drivers complain about having to go to Brazil or Abu Dhabi at the end of a tiring season? How is it any different going to Australia in 2017 compared to 2015?

 

The excuses you come-up with up are comical, but you could be sure that BSI wouldn't be thinking about rider welfare if the GP was successful. It's just a shame the Women's AFL season finished last month, otherwise that would no doubt get the blame...

[Mark]

Do you ever write anythinh positive Humph ? Very sad.

[Humphrey Appleby]

Do you ever write anythinh positive Humph ? Very sad.

Perhaps I'm just more a realist about how these things work, and don't believe everything I'm told by vested interests.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Humphrey Appleby

[PHILIPRISING]

Perhaps I'm just more a realist about how these things work, and don't believe everything I'm told by vested interests.

WHO might they be? If, as usual, you are pointing the finger at me the only vested interest I and Speedway Star have is that a successful SGP is good for the sport , showcases how exciting and dramatic it can be and provides young riders with an aspiration to become World Champion.

 

Since 2015 when the former Millennium (as it was then) stadium boss was running the Etihad, enthusiasm for the event there has diminished and the new owners seem unprepared to actually promote the SGP.

Edited October 18, 2017 by PHILIPRISING

[waytogo28]

WHO might they be? If, as usual, you are pointing the finger at me the only vested interest I and Speedway Star have is that a successful SGP is good for the sport , showcases how exciting and dramatic it can be and provides young riders with an aspiration to become World Champion.

 

Since 2015 when the former Millennium (as it was then) stadium boss was running the Etihad, enthusiasm for the event there has diminished and the new owners seem unprepared to actually promote the SGP.

 

So why don't the grass roots speedway ( clubs run locally ) promote it in Australia? If there is so much interest in speedway racing as a sport Down Under it could be given big boost in that way. Is it as it is in the UK that even with a World Champion elect ready to race there the Australian media are unenthusiastic about giving column inches to speedway?

[Humphrey Appleby]

WHO might they be? If, as usual, you are pointing the finger at me the only vested interest I and Speedway Star have is that a successful SGP is good for the sport , showcases how exciting and dramatic it can be and provides young riders with an aspiration to become World Champion.

I actually wasn't specifically referring to yourself, but you're either complicit in coming-up with excuses why one prestige venue after another never works out, or you're completely unquestioning of the reasons provided by the series promoter.

 

I don't think it should be beyond the realms of a sporting journal to actually investigate why these venues never seem to work out, and question a little what all promoters involved are actually doing. You managed to marshal some resources when a rival promoter appeared to threaten the status quo (albeit that it was complete fantasy), but are strangely disinterested in asking why the current promoters never seem to manage to sustain new venues for very long, or indeed why revenue has declined over in the past few years.

 

I think it's reasonable to acknowledge that speedway is probably something of a difficult commercial sell, and different viewing habits combined with more competition with other sports may well be part of the explanation. Equally though, I'm currently in Australia and you wouldn't have a clue a GP is being held here in a couple of weeks.

 

Since 2015 when the former Millennium (as it was then) stadium boss was running the Etihad, enthusiasm for the event there has diminished and the new owners seem unprepared to actually promote the SGP.

The AFL didn't take ownership of the Ethiad Stadium until October 2016, so you can't blame them for the promotion of the GP last year. The reported 25,000 for the first year was probably a reasonable effort given the generally low levels of interest in speedway in Australia these days, but it was the familiar story of not building on that platform.

[RPNY]

NOT sure about your last comment. The novelty has worn off and riders aren't over-enthusiastic about travelling round the world at the end of a tiring season. If NZ does return (not next year) it will hopefully start the season when everyone including riders are fresh and roaring to start a new campaign.

 

Torun, in my view, is perfect for the finale. Terrific stadium and track, full-house making an electric atmosphere, speedway mad town, what's not to like?

 

 

Ah right well just the interviews I read seemed like they loved going to Aus but you would know better than me. And I can fully appreciate its a lot of effort for them to travel Aus

Torun is definitely a great venue, was there in 12 & 13 and yes it is a Superb venue. It's just that it is quite over used these days. A world class stadium in a fantastic City - just a great way to round off the series IMO. And Fair as its a neutral track. Would Holder have been 2012 WC if last round had been staged elsewhere...

Edited October 18, 2017 by RPNYC

[PHILIPRISING]

 

Ah right well just the interviews I read seemed like they loved going to Aus but you would know better than me. And I can fully appreciate its a lot of effort for them to travel Aus

Torun is definitely a great venue, was there in 12 & 13 and yes it is a Superb venue. It's just that it is quite over used these days. A world class stadium in a fantastic City - just a great way to round off the series IMO. And Fair as its a neutral track. Would Holder have been 2012 WC if last round had been staged elsewhere...

IN 2012 he was the best rider so, in my opinion, yes he would. His biggest asset that season was a fantastic engine that neither he nor pjr have replicated. Remember, it blew up in the last race.

 

I wouldn't dream to suggest I know better than you Russ, but got the feeling this year that with so many riders out injured the general enthusiasm wasn't the same.

 

So why don't the grass roots speedway ( clubs run locally ) promote it in Australia? If there is so much interest in speedway racing as a sport Down Under it could be given big boost in that way. Is it as it is in the UK that even with a World Champion elect ready to race there the Australian media are unenthusiastic about giving column inches to speedway?

THE feeling amongst the Aussie riders is that Melbourne is actually too far away for the majority of fans down there. When the novelty wears off, as it did in Copenhagen eventually, and the costs (travel, hotels, etc) come in to play the crowds dip.

I actually wasn't specifically referring to yourself, but you're either complicit in coming-up with excuses why one prestige venue after another never works out, or you're completely unquestioning of the reasons provided by the series promoter.

 

I don't think it should be beyond the realms of a sporting journal to actually investigate why these venues never seem to work out, and question a little what all promoters involved are actually doing. You managed to marshal some resources when a rival promoter appeared to threaten the status quo (albeit that it was complete fantasy), but are strangely disinterested in asking why the current promoters never seem to manage to sustain new venues for very long, or indeed why revenue has declined over in the past few years.

 

I think it's reasonable to acknowledge that speedway is probably something of a difficult commercial sell, and different viewing habits combined with more competition with other sports may well be part of the explanation. Equally though, I'm currently in Australia and you wouldn't have a clue a GP is being held here in a couple of weeks.

 

 

The AFL didn't take ownership of the Ethiad Stadium until October 2016, so you can't blame them for the promotion of the GP last year. The reported 25,000 for the first year was probably a reasonable effort given the generally low levels of interest in speedway in Australia these days, but it was the familiar story of not building on that platform.

THE reality is that speedway's fan base outside of Poland is simply too small to sustain some of these venues. Have said on many occasions, here and in SS, that the loss of superstars in places like Sweden and Denmark and indeed the USA is having a dramatic effect.

 

I asked Ole Olsen in Torun why there are so few young Danes coming through. His answer was that many parents see riders, like Darcy Ward and Nicki Pedersen, sustaining serious injuries and decide that the risk isn't worth the rewards that are on offer and prematurely curtail their sons' potential careers.

 

Swedish teams have probably employed too many foreign riders in recent years and stunted the growth of their own kids but there and elsewhere, including the UK, a career in speedway isn't what it used to be. There are many more alternatives, less dangerous and more financially beneficial.

 

The profile for speedway generally has never been as low key as it is now.

IN 2012 he was the best rider so, in my opinion, yes he would. His biggest asset that season was a fantastic engine that neither he nor pjr have replicated. Remember, it blew up in the last race.

 

I wouldn't dream to suggest I know better than you Russ, but got the feeling this year that with so many riders out injured the general enthusiasm wasn't the same.

THE feeling amongst the Aussie riders is that Melbourne is actually too far away for the majority of fans down there. When the novelty wears off, as it did in Copenhagen eventually, and the costs (travel, hotels, etc) come in to play the crowds dip.

THE reality is that speedway's fan base outside of Poland is simply too small to sustain some of these venues. Have said on many occasions, here and in SS, that the loss of superstars in places like Sweden and Denmark and indeed the USA is having a dramatic effect.

 

I asked Ole Olsen in Torun why there are so few young Danes coming through. His answer was that many parents see riders, like Darcy Ward and Nicki Pedersen, sustaining serious injuries and decide that the risk isn't worth the rewards that are on offer and prematurely curtail their sons' potential careers.

 

Swedish teams have probably employed too many foreign riders in recent years and stunted the growth of their own kids but there and elsewhere, including the UK, a career in speedway isn't what it used to be. There are many more alternatives, less dangerous and more financially beneficial.

 

The profile for speedway generally has never been as low key as it is now.

AS an example of how the media in Poland treat speedway, the average number of journalists attending an SGP outside of Poland is generally around 80. Cardiff just about tops the 100. In Torun earlier this month the number was 210.

Edited October 18, 2017 by PHILIPRISING

[RPNY]

IN 2012 he was the best rider so, in my opinion, yes he would. His biggest asset that season was a fantastic engine that neither he nor pjr have replicated. Remember, it blew up in the last race.

 

I wouldn't dream to suggest I know better than you Russ, but got the feeling this year that with so many riders out injured the general enthusiasm wasn't the same.

THE feeling amongst the Aussie riders is that Melbourne is actually too far away for the majority of fans down there. When the novelty wears off, as it did in Copenhagen eventually, and the costs (travel, hotels, etc) come in to play the crowds dip.

 

Yes that makes sense. AS I said on a different thread such a shame about the injuries this year. Even though its been a cracking series it could have been even better.

Edited October 18, 2017 by RPNYC

[racers and royals]

IN 2012 he was the best rider so, in my opinion, yes he would. His biggest asset that season was a fantastic engine that neither he nor pjr have replicated. Remember, it blew up in the last race.

 

I wouldn't dream to suggest I know better than you Russ, but got the feeling this year that with so many riders out injured the general enthusiasm wasn't the same.

THE feeling amongst the Aussie riders is that Melbourne is actually too far away for the majority of fans down there. When the novelty wears off, as it did in Copenhagen eventually, and the costs (travel, hotels, etc) come in to play the crowds dip.

THE reality is that speedway's fan base outside of Poland is simply too small to sustain some of these venues. Have said on many occasions, here and in SS, that the loss of superstars in places like Sweden and Denmark and indeed the USA is having a dramatic effect.

 

I asked Ole Olsen in Torun why there are so few young Danes coming through. His answer was that many parents see riders, like Darcy Ward and Nicki Pedersen, sustaining serious injuries and decide that the risk isn't worth the rewards that are on offer and prematurely curtail their sons' potential careers.

 

Swedish teams have probably employed too many foreign riders in recent years and stunted the growth of their own kids but there and elsewhere, including the UK, a career in speedway isn't what it used to be. There are many more alternatives, less dangerous and more financially beneficial.

 

The profile for speedway generally has never been as low key as it is now.

AS an example of how the media in Poland treat speedway, the average number of journalists attending an SGP outside of Poland is generally around 80. Cardiff just about tops the 100. In Torun earlier this month the number was 210.

Out of the 210 what % were " working "

[RPNY]

 

 

I asked Ole Olsen in Torun why there are so few young Danes coming through. His answer was that many parents see riders, like Darcy Ward and Nicki Pedersen, sustaining serious injuries and decide that the risk isn't worth the rewards that are on offer and prematurely curtail their sons' potential careers.

 

 

Same with NFL in the States. So many parents stopping their kids playing the game through fear of injury (or worse)

[PHILIPRISING]

Out of the 210 what % were " working "

ALL of them hopefully. Accreditation is much stricter now. I still handle the international applications for events outside of Poland and turned down many especially a late surge from the Czech Republic after Millik came into the meeting.

[Humphrey Appleby]

THE reality is that speedway's fan base outside of Poland is simply too small to sustain some of these venues. Have said on many occasions, here and in SS, that the loss of superstars in places like Sweden and Denmark and indeed the USA is having a dramatic effect.

Then it's hard to understand why the SGP would want to take-on new prestige venues in untried markets, like Melbourne, rather than just go to existing race tracks in Poland.

 

If you read the latest BSI financial report though, it's clearly stated they're reducing the number of self-promoted events in order to reduce their operating costs, and have local promoters assume the staging cost and therefore risk of GPs. Those local promoters though, are going to be asking what they're getting out of it.

Accreditation is much stricter now. I still handle the international applications for events outside of Poland and turned down many especially a late surge from the Czech Republic after Millik came into the meeting.

Surely that's self-defeating? An opportunity to generate some interest in a particular market, but let's annoy the local journos who'll ignore the sport from now on.

 

I don't doubt there's some hangers-on after freebies, but it's hardly surprising there would be more interest if a rider from a country that isn't normally represented in the SGP is riding.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Humphrey Appleby

[Mark]

Perhaps I'm just more a realist about how these things work, and don't believe everything I'm told by vested interests.

Realistic fine but why not look for positives, ways to get better, than the obvious negatives. Easy to make critical remarks but you offer no solutions. You take the easy option of a cheap shot. If you like the sport support it or go elsewhere.

Edited October 18, 2017 by marky

[Humphrey Appleby]

Realistic fine but why not look for positives, ways to get better, than the obvious negatives. Easy to make critical remarks but you offer no solutions. You take the easy option of a cheap shot. If you like the sport support it or go elsewhere.

Have you not noticed the sport is on its knees? And part of the reason for that is because private promoters have been allowed to skim off what little cream there is, without having to have any stake in the grassroots of the sport that they actually rely upon for their business. Not just BSI, but also OneSport and potentially others if they could get their act together.

 

It's all very well claiming the SGP raises the profile of speedway, but what does speedway actually have to show for it after 20 years? Declining interest, declining revenues, still no new markets beyond a handful of countries, and the distinct possibility the entire sport could be dead within the next decade. How much money has the SGP generated for those actually running speedway on a day-to-day basis, how have crowds improved, and what sponsorship has been brought into the wider sport on the back of it?

 

Maybe things would have been worse without the SGP, who knows, but no way is it the saviour of the sport. And in most sports, the elite competitions are run by the stakeholders of the sport primarily for their benefit, yet not in speedway. Around GBP 3 million is being lost to speedway every year, which whilst small beer by the standards of major sports, would be enough to keep many tracks in business for a bit longer. Unfortunately though, none of this is ever questioned by those in a privileged position to do so, yet they're otherwise happy to ridicule mentally ill people in print.

 

I actually do have some ideas about what needs to be done with the sport if it has a chance of surviving, and I'm not completely without experience in motorsport organisation. However, I'm not involved in running speedway and therefore not in any position to enact changes, even I wanted to be involved in a sport where vested interests are leading to its self-destruction.

 

It's all very well being supportive, but don't be naive. Why do you think the SGP went to Melbourne - do you really think it was to give a struggling sport a shot in the arm in its oldest market, and in a city that hasn't operated a speedway track for years? Or might it be because an old mate is running a struggling and unpopular stadium and needs to fill it with events, is willing to do a cheap deal, and the competition needs to run a certain number of GPs including one outside of Europe?

[PHILIPRISING]

Then it's hard to understand why the SGP would want to take-on new prestige venues in untried markets, like Melbourne, rather than just go to existing race tracks in Poland.

 

If you read the latest BSI financial report though, it's clearly stated they're reducing the number of self-promoted events in order to reduce their operating costs, and have local promoters assume the staging cost and therefore risk of GPs. Those local promoters though, are going to be asking what they're getting out of it.

 

Surely that's self-defeating? An opportunity to generate some interest in a particular market, but let's annoy the local journos who'll ignore the sport from now on.

 

I don't doubt there's some hangers-on after freebies, but it's hardly surprising there would be more interest if a rider from a country that isn't normally represented in the SGP is riding.

WHO said that all applications from Czecho were from bona fide journalists? Those that were got accreditation.

Have you not noticed the sport is on its knees? And part of the reason for that is because private promoters have been allowed to skim off what little cream there is, without having to have any stake in the grassroots of the sport that they actually rely upon for their business. Not just BSI, but also OneSport and potentially others if they could get their act together.

 

It's all very well claiming the SGP raises the profile of speedway, but what does speedway actually have to show for it after 20 years? Declining interest, declining revenues, still no new markets beyond a handful of countries, and the distinct possibility the entire sport could be dead within the next decade. How much money has the SGP generated for those actually running speedway on a day-to-day basis, how have crowds improved, and what sponsorship has been brought into the wider sport on the back of it?

 

Maybe things would have been worse without the SGP, who knows, but no way is it the saviour of the sport. And in most sports, the elite competitions are run by the stakeholders of the sport primarily for their benefit, yet not in speedway. Around GBP 3 million is being lost to speedway every year, which whilst small beer by the standards of major sports, would be enough to keep many tracks in business for a bit longer. Unfortunately though, none of this is ever questioned by those in a privileged position to do so, yet they're otherwise happy to ridicule mentally ill people in print.

 

I actually do have some ideas about what needs to be done with the sport if it has a chance of surviving, and I'm not completely without experience in motorsport organisation. However, I'm not involved in running speedway and therefore not in any position to enact changes, even I wanted to be involved in a sport where vested interests are leading to its self-destruction.

 

It's all very well being supportive, but don't be naive. Why do you think the SGP went to Melbourne - do you really think it was to give a struggling sport a shot in the arm in its oldest market, and in a city that hasn't operated a speedway track for years? Or might it be because an old mate is running a struggling and unpopular stadium and needs to fill it with events, is willing to do a cheap deal, and the competition needs to run a certain number of GPs including one outside of Europe?

WHO is this mentally ill person you keep referring to? Are you now a doctor as well?

Edited October 19, 2017 by PHILIPRISING

[RPNY]

Have you not noticed the sport is on its knees? And part of the reason for that is because private promoters have been allowed to skim off what little cream there is, without having to have any stake in the grassroots of the sport that they actually rely upon for their business. Not just BSI, but also OneSport and potentially others if they could get their act together.

 

It's all very well claiming the SGP raises the profile of speedway, but what does speedway actually have to show for it after 20 years? Declining interest, declining revenues, still no new markets beyond a handful of countries, and the distinct possibility the entire sport could be dead within the next decade. How much money has the SGP generated for those actually running speedway on a day-to-day basis, how have crowds improved, and what sponsorship has been brought into the wider sport on the back of it?

 

Maybe things would have been worse without the SGP, who knows, but no way is it the saviour of the sport. And in most sports, the elite competitions are run by the stakeholders of the sport primarily for their benefit, yet not in speedway. Around GBP 3 million is being lost to speedway every year, which whilst small beer by the standards of major sports, would be enough to keep many tracks in business for a bit longer. Unfortunately though, none of this is ever questioned by those in a privileged position to do so, yet they're otherwise happy to ridicule mentally ill people in print.

 

I actually do have some ideas about what needs to be done with the sport if it has a chance of surviving, and I'm not completely without experience in motorsport organisation. However, I'm not involved in running speedway and therefore not in any position to enact changes, even I wanted to be involved in a sport where vested interests are leading to its self-destruction.

 

It's all very well being supportive, but don't be naive. Why do you think the SGP went to Melbourne - do you really think it was to give a struggling sport a shot in the arm in its oldest market, and in a city that hasn't operated a speedway track for years? Or might it be because an old mate is running a struggling and unpopular stadium and needs to fill it with events, is willing to do a cheap deal, and the competition needs to run a certain number of GPs including one outside of Europe?

 

It's not perfect by any stretch but there are many plus points to the GPs. Big crowds, fantastic racing, Deal with BT Sport signed, Big name sponsors involved. Getting back to the original Debate, they should just work harder at keeping these wonderful stadiums...

Edited October 19, 2017 by RPNYC

[Humphrey Appleby]

 

It's not perfect by any stretch but there are many plus points to the GPs. Big crowds, fantastic racing, Deal with BT Sport signed, Big name sponsors involved.

 

Big crowds? Well maybe in Poland and at Cardiff, and one what you might call big name sponsor (who wouldn't seem to be paying big bucks looking at the revenue figures).

 

However, how good or otherwise the SGP is, wasn't really my point. How is the rest of the sport benefitting from these plus points, because it looks like it's mostly dying on its a*se outside of Poland? And is the apparently inability to sustain most of the prestige venues, really a positive thing for the sport?

[iris123]

There has to be a balance between being realistic and being a dreamer.I guess BSI want someone in the job who wants to push the boundaries,rather than just concentrate on the core countries.Most of the time they are unrealistic dreams over a sustained period,as you say.As we saw in Copenhagen after a few good years the crowds plummeted.The FIM put their hopes of a Champions League into a the hands of people who gave them hope of a big competition in the Desert(funny Phil mention this area in one of his posts)and so far we have seen nothing.A last minute abandoned attempt to host in Germany last year and the failed promise(?) of Dubai or wherever this

 

But i guess you won't get the job if yu just go in and say we are going to host at tracks,Cities,towns that already host speedway