Cyril Francis,peter Vandenberg Mike Watkin Dai Evans Any Info And Stories.!

[Sidney the robin]

I have just completed my memorabilia of these four riders i saw all of them race so know the jist of there careers Watkin i only see race once though.Can any of you folk give me any more information on these four riders Vandenberg is of real interest.

Edited March 5, 2017 by Sidney the robin

[iris123]

You could always try the search facility.I did and came up trumps with Vandenberg within a minute and i am sure there are more stories to find on this very interesting forum

 

http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=46379&hl=vandenberg

 

Cyril Francis also has his ver own thread.Maybe the others do as well?

 

http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=47212&hl=%2Bcyril+%2Bfrancis

Edited March 5, 2017 by iris123

[Guest]

N the mid-1950s, Hungary was very much a backwater in speedway. It was with some surprise, therefore, when two of their riders, Sandor Levai and Zeke Zoltan, contacted me at ‘Speedway Star’ through a third party. Both had arrived in Britain around November 1956, after the Russian army stifled a freedom movement in their native Budapest.

As both were staying in Manchester, I didn’t get any more involved than passing on their names and addresses to Belle Vue. Sandor battled for some years to get established and ended his career with distinction in British speedway - Stoke, Belle Vue and Newport were all well served by him. Sadly, Zoltan disappeared after a handful of novice races at Belle Vue.

It was also around that time that two young Australians called at my ‘Speedway Star’ office, then in Cheapside, London, near St Paul’s Cathedral. They were Charlie Wallis and Piet van den Berg. I managed to get both trials at Southampton, where Charlie Knott was the el supremo. There were no problems regarding Wallis, but a blip hit van den Berg. It appeared he was born of Dutch parents who had settled in Australia and he was traveling on both Dutch and Australian papers.

It seemed he would be classified as a foreign rider - but in view of his limited experience would not get work permit to race in British speedway. Then, just as it seemed he would have to ride on the continent, British racing accepted his Australian nationality, He also took on a new image - hence the arrival in British speedway of the very popular and capable Peter Vandenberg.

Talking of Dutchmen, another who called in at my office in the early part of 1956 was Nico van Gorcum, who did most of his racing in Holland and Germany, He also wanted to get into British speedway, but this time my persuasive powers failed when I contacted both Coventry and Swindon. Nico made his bid to get into British speedway at a time when Swedish and Polish riders were all the vogue.

Mention of Dutchmen, the first rider from the Land of Windmills to attract the interest of a British club was their 1938 champion Gerrit Kops, who signed for Sheffield in late August 1939. The week he was due to have trials at Owlerton coincided with the outbreak of Word War Two on September 3. Hence no British debut for Mr Kops.

Kops ironically was at Sheffield in 1949, He was a starter for a World Championship qualifying round. Sadly, in his first race his engine ‘blew up’ on the starting grid and he was out of the meeting,

Most of Kops’ trackwork from 1936 into the early 1960s was centred on Holland, Germany and Poland. He raced, as do most Europeans, on speedway, grass and long-tracks.

[The White Knight]

I know Dai Evans quite well, well enough to call him a friend. He is currently living in Shropshire and is doing well.

 

He attends our Sunderland Reunions.

[Sidney the robin]

I know Dai Evans quite well, well enough to call him a friend. He is currently living in Shropshire and is doing well.

 

He attends our Sunderland Reunions.

I only see him WK for Crewe in the Crumpy days for a few years Crewe had some decent riders Crump,Jackson,Millen,Flood,Evans,Morton.(ect) Edited March 5, 2017 by Sidney the robin

[The White Knight]

I only see him WK for Crewe in the Crumpy days for a few years Crewe had some decent riders Crump,Jackson,Millen,Flood,Evans,Morton.(ect)

You are right Sid - Crewe had a great side in those days and Dai was the Captain.

 

I loved watching Crump (Phil) - he was a truly great Rider.

[Sidney the robin]

You are right Sid - Crewe had a great side in those days and Dai was the Captain.

 

I loved watching Crump (Phil) - he was a truly great Rider.

Jackson in the NL was my alltime favourite along with Joe Owen the NL then was a very good product what i liked was the mix between vererans (stll alot to offer)

and young uns like Thomas,Collins,Lee,Carter (ect).

[The White Knight]

There were some cracking Riders in the National League in those days. Graeme Smith, Lou Sansom, Tom Owen, Trevor Geer, Ken McKinlay, Arthur Browning, George Major, Bruce Forrester, Doug Templeton, Geoff Maloney = all were good to watch along with the others I've mentioned on this Thread.

 

Many happy memories here.

Edited March 9, 2017 by The White Knight

[FAST GATER]

I only see him WK for Crewe in the Crumpy days for a few years Crewe had some decent riders Crump,Jackson,Millen,Flood,Evans,Morton.(ect)

Dai was instrumental in Jacko getting into speedway as he was friends with Fred Jackson( John's elder brother) from grasstracking , IMO JJ and Joe Owen were the two best riders of all time in the old NL.

 

They were great times ( not rose tinted glasses either) IMO there was a perfect balance of youth and experience in the NL ,one worth a mention is Paul O'neal who was one of those hard but fair riders ,did a season at the Port at the end of his career.

 

Back on topic Cyril was my first s/way hero rode in the first race i ever watch at the Port ,he had all the time in the world for the fans and a credit to the sport ,very under rated IMO.

Edited March 6, 2017 by FAST GATER

[The White Knight]

Dai was instrumental in Jacko getting into speedway as he was friends with Fred Jackson( John's elder brother) from grasstracking , IMO JJ and Joe Owen were the two best riders of all time in the old NL.

 

They were great times ( not rose tinted glasses either) IMO there was a perfect balance of youth and experience in the NL ,one worth a mention is Paul O'neal who was one of those hard but fair riders ,did a season at the Port at the end of his career.

 

Back on topic Cyril was my first s/way hero rode in the first race i ever watch at the Port ,he had all the time in the world for the fans and a credit to the sport ,very under rated IMO.

I can't agree with that.

 

Phil Crump, Peter Collins, Gordon Kennett are just three off the top of my head who, in my opinion were superior Riders to Jackson and Owen.

[FAST GATER]

I can't agree with that.

 

Phil Crump, Peter Collins, Gordon Kennett are just three off the top of my head who, in my opinion were superior Riders to Jackson and Owen.

All three of the riders you mention were better riders but they went on to the old Gulf league and PC to be w/champ, I meant as point scorers in the old NL and as stand out stars at that level if you follow my drift! . The one thing with JJ he was incredible fast and was renowned for breaking track records ,I think he once held six at one particular time in his career in the 70's.

[Sidney the robin]

All three of the riders you mention were better riders but they went on to the old Gulf league and PC to be w/champ, I meant as point scorers in the old NL and as stand out stars at that level if you follow my drift! . The one thing with JJ he was incredible fast and was renowned for breaking track records ,I think he once held six at one particular time in his career in the 70's.

 

Jackson he had a spell at Halifax and he had a full time season with Wolves but really he was not interested in the BL.He was good anough of course but at Ellesmere he took some beating.As WK said the likes of Collins,Kennett,Lee,Carter,Louis,Crump, (ect) ended up better riders but the old National League the stand out riders for me were J.Owen,Jackson,T.Owen,Wilcock,R.Hunter,G.Hunter,Lawson,Forrester,Etheridge,Woods,W.Brown,Mcdermott,Fiora(ect). Edited March 6, 2017 by Sidney the robin

[BOBBATH]

Sidney thanx for mentioning these folks, I note that Iris123 linked you to a couple of threads on this forum. The one on Peter Vandenberg was one I started and hope you enjoyed reading it-amazingly as per the British Final of 1965, Peter's claim to fame may have been denying Charlie Monk what turned out to be his only chance to appear in the World Final by unbelievably being the first rider in the championship rounds to beat Charlie- I can see it now-Peter made the gate and won that heat-the only points he scored all night. With all due respect to the late Peter-no question Charlie was the better rider and 9 times out of 10 would have beaten Peter. C'est la vie!!

As regards Cyril, who I also commented on in the other thread Iris123 directed you to, I agree with the other comments-wot a gent-still lives in Newport apparently.

Comment re Mike Watkin, another gent ,who I had the opportunity of speaking to in the Newport supporters club bar--in I think 1966. I got talking to him and he spent endless time chatting and answering various questions I had.. He was a true representative of speedway's golden years when the riders had a lot in common with the supporters. A very down to earth and pleasant gentleman. I hope Mike is still with us and in good health-if I ever met up with him I would definitely stand him a beer or even a brandy if he preferred. They don't make 'em like Mike anymore!! These riders should never be forgotten so thanx for bringing back my memories of them.

[FAST GATER]

Jackson he had a spell at Halifax and he had a full time season with Wolves but really he was not interested in the BL.He was good anough of course but at Ellesmere he took some beating.As WK said the likes of Collins,Kennett,Lee,Carter,Louis,Crump, (ect) ended up better riders but the old National League the stand out riders for me were J.Owen,Jackson,T.Owen,Wilcock,R.Hunter,G.Hunter,Lawson,Forrester,Etheridge,Woods,W.Brown,Mcdermott,Fiora(ect).

One of the main reasons JJ never went full time in the BL was that the terms of his sponsorship( which was full package) was he rode at the Port so his sponsor could watch him every week .

 

There were some great riders in the NL at that time mid 70's I do believe that the ratio of older and younger riders was just about perfect and IMO is what is missing in the sport today. The other thing that I feel is the standard between the leagues today is not as great as it was then ,this I put down to machinery mainly .Most NL riders held down jobs as well because the money was not there to be full time unless you were one of the top riders .

[Sidney the robin]

Sidney thanx for mentioning these folks, I note that Iris123 linked you to a couple of threads on this forum. The one on Peter Vandenberg was one I started and hope you enjoyed reading it-amazingly as per the British Final of 1965, Peter's claim to fame may have been denying Charlie Monk what turned out to be his only chance to appear in the World Final by unbelievably being the first rider in the championship rounds to beat Charlie- I can see it now-Peter made the gate and won that heat-the only points he scored all night. With all due respect to the late Peter-no question Charlie was the better rider and 9 times out of 10 would have beaten Peter. C'est la vie!!

As regards Cyril, who I also commented on in the other thread Iris123 directed you to, I agree with the other comments-wot a gent-still lives in Newport apparently.

Comment re Mike Watkin, another gent ,who I had the opportunity of speaking to in the Newport supporters club bar--in I think 1966. I got talking to him and he spent endless time chatting and answering various questions I had.. He was a true representative of speedway's golden years when the riders had a lot in common with the supporters. A very down to earth and pleasant gentleman. I hope Mike is still with us and in good health-if I ever met up with him I would definitely stand him a beer or even a brandy if he preferred. They don't make 'em like Mike anymore!! These riders should never be forgotten so thanx for bringing back my memories of them.

Great to have your input BOBBATH some of these riders no disrespect to them were no world champions but were vital to speedway.That is what i miss in speedway today proper TEAMS riders you get to identify with and support.At Swindon we had a couple over a long period Keen/ Hitch loved both of them.Briggs,Ashby,Kilby were the stars but Keen/Hitch played a huge part in the season and gave years of enjoyment. Edited March 7, 2017 by Sidney the robin

[salty]

Jackson he had a spell at Halifax and he had a full time season with Wolves but really he was not interested in the BL.He was good anough of course but at Ellesmere he took some beating.As WK said the likes of Collins,Kennett,Lee,Carter,Louis,Crump, (ect) ended up better riders but the old National League the stand out riders for me were J.Owen,Jackson,T.Owen,Wilcock,R.Hunter,G.Hunter,Lawson,Forrester,Etheridge,Woods,W.Brown,Mcdermott,Fiora(ect).

Great list Sid, but I have to take issue with George Hunter. I always remember him as a heat leader in the British League rather than the NL rider at the end of his career.

Another couple of riders who I remember as NL performers rather than BL - both Martin's - Yeates and Goodwin.

[Sidney the robin]

Great list Sid, but I have to take issue with George Hunter. I always remember him as a heat leader in the British League rather than the NL rider at the end of his career.

Another couple of riders who I remember as NL performers rather than BL - both Martin's - Yeates and Goodwin.

Good point Salty i see him for Scotland, Coatbridge,Glasgow,Edinburgh,Wolves and you are right he was on the slide but remember Hunter , Rumsey, Shields being powerful at NL level for Oxford. Edited March 8, 2017 by Sidney the robin

[steve roberts]

Good point Salty i see him for Scotland, Coatbridge,Glasgow,Edinburgh,Wolves and you are right he was on the slide but remember Hunter , Rumsey, Sheilds being powerful at NL level for Oxford.

George Hunter rode at Number One for Oxford during the 1978 & 79 seasons carrying very healthy averages. Les Rumsey however scored more points for Oxford in 1979 than George but rode more races therefore his average, although very good, was slightly less than George. David Shields was an inspirational addition to the Oxford cause in 1978 but didn't return the following year...in fact he didn't compete in Britain again for a number of years when he later rode for Cradley in the British League.

[BOBBATH]

Re Vandenberg, Francis and Keen (BTW glad to see a mention of Mike Keen, Sidney) I would say that PV tended to be somewhat better than the others-who were indeed middle order riders. I would say that PV might have been of the order of guys like Clive Featherby and Pete Jarman-maybe a little ahead of both. For example in the N0V 13 1964 issue of the Star. PV was just behind Jack Kitchen and just ahead of Ross Gilbertson at 10th with 9.37 in the PL averages (although this was before CMA's were used and I think included not just PL meetings but KO Cup and maybe regional leagues) I see Cyril had an average of 5.96 and Clive Hitch 5.00 (for Middlesbrough). According to this list PV was the top Newport rider ahead of Dick Bradley and Alby Golden. Some others in forumland (like BL65 ) may have more accurate data.

In the first year of BL (the golden year of 65) PV had a CMA of 7.92- in third spot of the Newport averages behind Jackie Biggs and Dick Bradley(Dick's final season)., Cyril had a good year with a CMA of 7.48-only 5th of the Wolves riders though but I had forgotten they had such a well-balanced team that year

Getting back to Mike- he had a CMA of 3.88 just behind Bob Kilby with a CMA of 4.12 in 1965- I think they were pretty neck and neck that year- Bob was regarded as the better prospect which in fact turned out to be true. However the first time I saw the Robins was at Somerton on 28th of May and Mike was amazingly third top scorer for the Robins behind Briggs (15 point max) and Broadbank (11 from rides-only point dropped to Bradley). Mike scored 5 and Bob 0(from 2 rides). That night Clive Hitch was replaced by Peter Sampson who has done so much for Speedway at his Paradise Wildlife Park-I see Peter scored 4- beating the Wasps riders Penniket and Erskine( no mean feat). Wasps won 41-37 undoubtedly due to Martin Ashby's absence(maybe injured?)

On a personal note the Abbey Stadium was the first NL track I visited where I saw the Wasps lose to the Robins 48-30 (Sampson 4, Keen 3, Kilby 6). It was 17 July 1965-went on a Newport Supporters bus and the Severn bridge was not opened yet.. In 1968 went a couple more times to Blunsdon-always enjoyed the drive-went via Acton Turville, Minety , Malmesbury and all sorts of villages-very pleasant-one time I was behind Mike from Minety onwards-he had his bike strapped to the back of his car. About 15 years ago I tried to drive the same trip but the roads had changed so much I couldn't duplicate the exact route. But still managed a beer in the Cold Harbour pub. Wonder if Mike K. still lives in Minety? Sorry for the long post but Sidney's topic regenerated some happy memories-I really hope the Abbey Stadium keeps going.

[Sidney the robin]

Re Vandenberg, Francis and Keen (BTW glad to see a mention of Mike Keen, Sidney) I would say that PV tended to be somewhat better than the others-who were indeed middle order riders. I would say that PV might have been of the order of guys like Clive Featherby and Pete Jarman-maybe a little ahead of both. For example in the N0V 13 1964 issue of the Star. PV was just behind Jack Kitchen and just ahead of Ross Gilbertson at 10th with 9.37 in the PL averages (although this was before CMA's were used and I think included not just PL meetings but KO Cup and maybe regional leagues) I see Cyril had an average of 5.96 and Clive Hitch 5.00 (for Middlesbrough). According to this list PV was the top Newport rider ahead of Dick Bradley and Alby Golden. Some others in forumland (like BL65 ) may have more accurate data.

In the first year of BL (the golden year of 65) PV had a CMA of 7.92- in third spot of the Newport averages behind Jackie Biggs and Dick Bradley(Dick's final season)., Cyril had a good year with a CMA of 7.48-only 5th of the Wolves riders though but I had forgotten they had such a well-balanced team that year

Getting back to Mike- he had a CMA of 3.88 just behind Bob Kilby with a CMA of 4.12 in 1965- I think they were pretty neck and neck that year- Bob was regarded as the better prospect which in fact turned out to be true. However the first time I saw the Robins was at Somerton on 28th of May and Mike was amazingly third top scorer for the Robins behind Briggs (15 point max) and Broadbank (11 from rides-only point dropped to Bradley). Mike scored 5 and Bob 0(from 2 rides). That night Clive Hitch was replaced by Peter Sampson who has done so much for Speedway at his Paradise Wildlife Park-I see Peter scored 4- beating the Wasps riders Penniket and Erskine( no mean feat). Wasps won 41-37 undoubtedly due to Martin Ashby's absence(maybe injured?)

On a personal note the Abbey Stadium was the first NL track I visited where I saw the Wasps lose to the Robins 48-30 (Sampson 4, Keen 3, Kilby 6). It was 17 July 1965-went on a Newport Supporters bus and the Severn bridge was not opened yet.. In 1968 went a couple more times to Blunsdon-always enjoyed the drive-went via Acton Turville, Minety , Malmesbury and all sorts of villages-very pleasant-one time I was behind Mike from Minety onwards-he had his bike strapped to the back of his car. About 15 years ago I tried to drive the same trip but the roads had changed so much I couldn't duplicate the exact route. But still managed a beer in the Cold Harbour pub. Wonder if Mike K. still lives in Minety? Sorry for the long post but Sidney's topic regenerated some happy memories-I really hope the Abbey Stadium keeps going.

Great post what a memory you have superb BOBBATH the last i knew Mike was still living in Minety.