salty Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 It was the Bernie/JB/Cribby era Sid .I always find it strange with Johnny Boulger, I've always thought of him as a bit of a Cradley legend when in reality I think he only rode for us for 3 years. Similiar with Bobby Schwartz though and I think he only did the one season Totally agree Sid I remember a friend of mine saying to me when we signed Michanek he's not really a Olsen, Mauger or Collins. I remember saying yes he is but in reality he's best days had gone. Then again I remember going to Reading and I'm sure he got a 21 point max and we lost 40-38 . Could be wrong on that though Iirc wigg and Ravn both had their only full season on heathens colours as part of that 83 side. How are they remembered by heathens fans?Boulger was brilliant for Cradley. When he arrived it was on the back of the awful 1973 season. By the time he left at the end of 76 we were a solid middle of the table team and a lot of that was down to his being a genuine number 1. Bobby Schwartz may have only had the one season at Cradley but only left because of the points limit - and because of his relationship with Penhall (and the fans) was always given a warm reception. Very similar to Wiggy. Less so for Peter Ravn, but that's maybe because he went to Monomore? As for Michanek, at his best he was up with the very best as a British League number 1. By the time he came to Cradley he was on the wane and certainly wasn't that committed to the cause, hence his premature release. I think his role was more a statement of intent from Dan McCormick that he meant business. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted February 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 Boulger was brilliant for Cradley. When he arrived it was on the back of the awful 1973 season. By the time he left at the end of 76 we were a solid middle of the table team and a lot of that was down to his being a genuine number 1. Bobby Schwartz may have only had the one season at Cradley but only left because of the points limit - and because of his relationship with Penhall (and the fans) was always given a warm reception. Very similar to Wiggy. Less so for Peter Ravn, but that's maybe because he went to Monomore? As for Michanek, at his best he was up with the very best as a British League number 1. By the time he came to Cradley he was on the wane and certainly wasn't that committed to the cause, hence his premature release. I think his role was more a statement of intent from Dan McCormick that he meant business. Agree totally Salty, Boulger was a real rider unheralded really tough as old boots/Fair class and when you talk about Aussie riders i recon him and Airey get forgotten.Ask Crumpie/Billy how good Boulger was both would of said he was some rider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 Agree totally Salty, Boulger was a real rider unheralded really tough as old boots/Fair class and when you talk about Aussie riders i recon him and Airey get forgotten.Ask Crumpie/Billy how good Boulger was both would of said he was some rider. Not by me Sid. Jim Airey was one of my favourite ever Riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 Not by me Sid. Jim Airey was one of my favourite ever Riders. Saw him the once when he returned for the 1973 Daily Mirror World Tournament at Cowley...a class act. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 Saw him the once when he returned for the 1973 Daily Mirror World Tournament at Cowley...a class act. A great Rider who could have gone on a lot longer than he did if I remember correctly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 A great Rider who could have gone on a lot longer than he did if I remember correctly. I remember reading somewhere that he realised that becoming World Champion was never going to happen so he decided to retire from Britain (think he continued in Aussie for a while) although his 1971 average was very healthy to say the least. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted February 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Was Airey the KING of the big Sydney showground? retired to early to concentrate on business interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billywamill Posted March 1, 2017 Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 it's very hard to compare different eras, but at the end of the season, the 1983 Cradley team had a combined average of over 63 !!! Even their number 7 (a future World champion) averaged just under 8. Both very different tracks, but I'd argue Ipswich in 1983 had a similar team to Cradley and overall the Heathens beat the Witches by 6 points. I think that would have been at least the difference if the teams could have met in a fantasy match up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted March 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 Belle Vue v Cradley looking at it Ivan over Erik) PC/Sjosten over King/Wigg, Pusey over Collins, Grahame over Broadbelt Pedersen/Ravn over Eyre/Wilkinson Belle Vue just shade it also with Ivan's brilliance. If Penhall had been in it then it could of been different. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 I am too young (don't get the chance to say that much these days!) to have seen that Aces team, but I certainly got a fair old view of the 83 Cradley team and they were terrific. It was a rare example of everything clicking. It's worth bearing in mind that it was Gundersen's first season as captain and no1. He had to step up to fill the huge void of Bruce Penhall. He'd only been in one World Final up to then too. It was Simon Wigg's first season up from the National League, Lance King was still only in his second season and was a second string at best the previous year. Jan O Pedersen was an unknown. Ravn was out of form. You could argue that only really Collins and Grahame could be looked upon as safe bets to reproduce. But all of them exceeded expectations. They even had Simon Cross at no8! As an Aces fan, the one consolation was getting the better of them in the season-opening Premiership, before they were truly up to speed :-) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 And of course before peter Ravn joined them. He won the Premiership with belle vue and the league with Cradley. He could also argue he was part of the aces team that won the league cup, albeit having left Aces after a handful of meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted March 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) That Cradley side just showed with planning a good team spirit and skill you can create a great side.Adams you to have to give him real credit for that,as Falcace said it was only Collins/Grahame that were pretty easy to predict.The rest all clicked as a unit,King/Wigg /Jan O all went on to become world class Ravn even reached a world Final (as a reserve)and Erik along with Hans went on to dominate a decade a GREAT side. Edited March 3, 2017 by Sidney the robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 Who Were The Better Team Belle Vue Or Cradley Heath.? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 Who Were The Better Team Belle Vue Or Cradley Heath.? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz The quality of post we've come to expect from you. Sad that someone who has seen a lot of speedway should have so little of value to contribute.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) Who Were The Better Team Belle Vue Or Cradley Heath.? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz The quality of post we've come to expect from you. Sad that someone who has seen a lot of speedway should have so little of value to contribute.. There have been more than 50 Posts in regard to this topic. Surely it's near time that a definitive answer was reached. All that is needed is an overall verdict to the query "Who Were The Better Team Belle Vue Or Cradley Heath?" rather than all the off-subject remarks that have filled this thread? When will the verdict be arrived at? Edited March 3, 2017 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 I remember that Cradley side winning by the same score at Swindon - 29-49 - despite Phil Crump getting a glorious maximum! The Cradley team looked slighlty bemused on their victory parade as half the crowd went onto the greyhound track and chanted "Crumpie, Crumpie" as they came round. Never has a heavy home defeat felt so much like a victory! The Belle Vue team was before my time and I never got to see it, but poor old Ken Eyre sticks out like a sore thumb so I'd give it to Cradley. Grachan, a 49-29 away win at Blunsdon is nothing. I remember Oxford '86 winning 56-21 at Swindon (with Robins' reject Per Sorensen returning to score a paid maximum for Cheetahs). Cradley Heath 1983 were the strongest side from 1-to-7 - I remember doing a piece on that side for the Speedway Star and what struck me wasn't the fact that they won all but two of their BL fixtures, but the constant size of the victories. Belle Vue '72 had Mauger, but not quite the all-around strength of Heathens '83. Peter Ravn and Jan O Pedersen's reserve averages were remarkable. The 100% team was Oxford '86. That was a different type of side - the ultimate top heavy side and therefore so hard to beat over 13 heats. The BL averages for Nielsen (11.83) and Wigg (11.01) made it almost impossible to close out a win against that side - Marvyn Cox was in the form of his life for the last few months of the season as well. I remember Cheetahs used tactical subs at both Cradley and Reading and yet ended up winning both meetings with relative ease. On paper, the Oxford '86 looked slightly weaker than Oxford '85. On the track, I think a lot of the Oxford riders simply had their best-ever season. The likes of Per Sorensen and Nigel De'ath had seasons that they never repeated. Cradley '83 were a powerhouse team from 1-to-7. But arguably the 13-heat-formula suited top heavy teams. And that's why Cradley did lose twice in 1983, while Oxford had a 100% record in 1986. And let's not forget that Coventry - another team with a terrific top end - were unbeaten (with 3 draws) in 1987 as well. All the best Rob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) In my lifetime the Belle Vue 1972 team and the Cradley Heath 1983 team were the best i ever saw who was the best so tough to choose. Belle Vue 1972 awesome Mauger,Sjosten,Collins,Pusey,Wilkinson, Broadbelt, Eyre. Cradley Heath 1983 Gundersen,King,Collins,Grahame,Wigg,Pedersen, (A masterstroke Adams change Ravn. So tough Belle Vue for me though just. Belle Vue for me too Sid. That was a wonderful Team. Missing the point of the original question - which was - which was the better team? Belle Vue 1972 or Cradley 1983? Of course the correct answer is Cradley 1983. The above quotes endorse my efforts to get the origination of this Thread back on course. Any chance we can get responses from somewhere as to what was originally queried.? Edited March 3, 2017 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) There have been more than 50 Posts in regard to this topic. Surely it's near time that a definitive answer was reached. All that is needed is an overall verdict to the query "Who Were The Better Team Belle Vue Or Cradley Heath?" rather than all the off-subject remarks that have filled this thread? When will the verdict be arrived at? People's opinions are subjective, so therefore, there can't be a definitive answer. I've given my opinion, in that I think Cradley Heath '83 were the strongest side from 1-to-7. All the best Rob Edited March 3, 2017 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 My opinion is that Belle Vue were the best. (I must declare an interest in fairness - I do support Belle Vue). However - it is all about opinions and I respect ls's view even though I don't agree with him. It is a pity though - that there is no definative answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) In my lifetime the Belle Vue 1972 team and the Cradley Heath 1983 team were the best i ever saw who was the best so tough to choose. Belle Vue 1972 awesome Mauger,Sjosten,Collins,Pusey,Wilkinson, Broadbelt, Eyre. Cradley Heath 1983 Gundersen,King,Collins,Grahame,Wigg,Pedersen, (A masterstroke Adams change Ravn. So tough Belle Vue for me though just. Difficult to compare any great teams (I would include the 1986 Oxford team in any list) as points limits and/or restrictions dictated team strengths and limitations on same. Personally, however, I would plump for the Belle Vue team of 1972. As it appears an unanswerable topic I guess the thread is going to be dragged on and on for some time to come...? Edited March 3, 2017 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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