Who Were The Better Team Belle Vue Or Cradley Heath.?

[Sidney the robin]

As it appears an unanswerable topic I guess the thread is going to be dragged on and on for some time to come...?

Does it matter if it continues into the next century? if people want to comment they do if not it is there choice.😜 Edited March 3, 2017 by Sidney the robin

[nw42]

 

 

As it appears an unanswerable topic I guess the thread is going to be dragged on and on for some time to come...?

 

Yes and it would flow a whole lot better if you were to stop being a d!ck.

 

I've only just spotted the thread and was enjoying reading all the contributions, except yours of course.

 

It's a tough one to call and I saw plenty of both teams through those eras, Cradley had some serious strength in depth, as some have mentioned Cross @ No8 was special at that age.

I can understand those playing down Ken Eyre's role, he was a fans favourite but rarely piled in with big points, I do seem to recall Wilkie getting a few double figure scores though.

It's all from memory in my case but it was interesting to see Cradley's average scores were better, I suppose it then comes down to quality of opposition in the 2 different eras.

 

Great thread Sid, keep them coming.

[Guest]

 

 

As it appears an unanswerable topic I guess the thread is going to be dragged on and on for some time to come...?

 

 

Does it matter if it continues into the next century? if people want to comment they do if not it is there choice.

 

 

 

Yes and it would flow a whole lot better if you were to stop being a d!ck.

 

I've only just spotted the thread and was enjoying reading all the contributions, except yours of course.

 

It's a tough one to call and I saw plenty of both teams through those eras, Cradley had some serious strength in depth, as some have mentioned Cross @ No8 was special at that age.

I can understand those playing down Ken Eyre's role, he was a fans favourite but rarely piled in with big points, I do seem to recall Wilkie getting a few double figure scores though.

It's all from memory in my case but it was interesting to see Cradley's average scores were better, I suppose it then comes down to quality of opposition in the 2 different eras.

 

Great thread Sid, keep them coming.

 

​Again I appear to be in the wrong. I fully accept that fact. As I anticipate it is going to 'keep rolling along' this will be my last comment in this thread. In future I will just flick past the topic when I enter YEARS GONE BY. Have fun everyone who is enjoying the thread.

[salty]

I agree - but it is deviation from main themes tgat make debates of interest. But I suppose as I made the comment you, as with others of your ilk, went into automatic 'overdrive' to pull me up!

There have been more than 50 Posts in regard to this topic. Surely it's near time that a definitive answer was reached. All that is needed is an overall verdict to the query "Who Were The Better Team Belle Vue Or Cradley Heath?" rather than all the off-subject remarks that have filled this thread?

When will the verdict be arrived at?

The above quotes endorse my efforts to get the origination of this Thread back on course. Any chance we can get responses from somewhere as to what was originally queried.?

Typical Gustix. One week he endorses "deviation from main themes" - obviously when he's the one doing the deviating - yet today he is desperate to get the "thread back on course".

As pointed out it is a subjective matter so therefore no "verdict will be arrived at".

One of the most interesting ( for me) threads in this section. Especially when compared to the nonsense usually launched by Gustix.

[The White Knight]

Typical Gustix. One week he endorses "deviation from main themes" - obviously when he's the one doing the deviating - yet today he is desperate to get the "thread back on course".

As pointed out it is a subjective matter so therefore no "verdict will be arrived at".

One of the most interesting ( for me) threads in this section. Especially when compared to the nonsense usually launched by Gustix.

I think that is very harsh salty. gustix Posts some very interesting Threads if you are interested in the History of Speedway. I love the tales from years ago before I took an interest in the Sport.

 

gustix has a great knowledge of those days - and - as I say, I very much enjoy reading his comments.

Edited March 3, 2017 by The White Knight

[waiheke1]

I think that is very harsh salty. gustix Posts some very interesting Threads if you are interested in the History of Speedway. I love the tales from years ago before I took an interest in the Sport.

 

gustix has a great knowledge of those days - and - as I say, I very much enjoy reading his comments.

Yes when he posts about those days he can be great to read.

But 90% of his posts are just trolling.

About 4 posts into the thread he responded with something utterly different to tgat asked by the OP. And since he has come back with a load of nonsense.

You and I often disagree, but I respect that you always post your true opinion.

Gustix just aims to antagonise and frankly i wish he would just far cough and leave this thread to those who have a genuine interest in adding to the discussion.

[salty]

I think that is very harsh salty. gustix Posts some very interesting Threads if you are interested in the History of Speedway. I love the tales from years ago before I took an interest in the Sport.

 

gustix has a great knowledge of those days - and - as I say, I very much enjoy reading his comments.

Ok TWK I'll grudgingly admit there is some wheat amongst the chaff. But there is an awful lot if chaff!

I get a bit sick of his constant belittling of the modern day sport and this forum. If you don't like it - why waste so much time on it?

[Sidney the robin]

​Again I appear to be in the wrong. I fully accept that fact. As I anticipate it is going to 'keep rolling along' this will be my last comment in this thread. In future I will just flick past the topic when I enter YEARS GONE BY. Have fun everyone who is enjoying the thread.

Your input is very interesting but one thing that puzzles me why does it bother people how long the thread goes on for and if people sometimes go off track.For me the Years gone by is the best thread on here you can learn alot Gustix i would suggest carry on posting you have a lot to offer.

Hard to compare the two sides like for like, but more relevant to look at their points differential to see how much they dominated the league by.

Both sides only had two away defeats all season, but averaging out their points we find...

Belle Vue Home 51 - 26 Away 36 - 42

Cradley Home 53 - 25 Away 32 - 46.

 

Cradley on top in both cases and also they had 6 away wins of 20 points or more, whereas the Aces only had one (ironically at Dudley Wood).

 

Salty do you believe Cradley over the years had more of a home advantage than Belle Vue Hyde Rd.Cradley for me was a very hard track to ride endless times i see Collins/Grahame pick riders off through track knowledge.Looking back often visiting riders might only visit a track once so hard to get and know a set up to be able to score points.

[bruno]

I never considered Dudley Wood a difficult track to ride, I was a mere youngster back then so took no notice of the finer points of speedway. What do other heathens think?Was Dudley Wood a difficult track to ride?

Ps keep posting Gustrix I agree some of your posts leave me scratching my head but the majority are interesting and informative

[salty]

Your input is very interesting but one thing that puzzles me why does it bother people how long the thread goes on for and if people sometimes go off track.For me the Years gone by is the best thread on here you can learn alot Gustix i would suggest carry on posting you have a lot to offer.

Salty do you believe Cradley over the years had more of a home advantage than Belle Vue Hyde Rd.Cradley for me was a very hard track to ride endless times i see Collins/Grahame pick riders off through track knowledge.Looking back often visiting riders might only visit a track once so hard to get and know a set up to be able to score points.

I was always under the impression Dudley Wood was considered a very fair track. In fact it was the excuse often trotted out for the lack of success enjoyed by Heathens teams in the first dozen or so years of the British League.

Hyde Road I always felt the home riders had a bigger advantage, but to be fair if you had the machinery it was a great racing track.

[Sidney the robin]

I was always under the impression Dudley Wood was considered a very fair track. In fact it was the excuse often trotted out for the lack of success enjoyed by Heathens teams in the first dozen or so years of the British League.

Hyde Road I always felt the home riders had a bigger advantage, but to be fair if you had the machinery it was a great racing track.

Yes Salty point taken at Belle vue hyde Rd unless you had reasonable stuff you would struggle.This year at the new Belle Vue again in a modern era if you are on s..t aquipment you will struggle.😀 Edited March 4, 2017 by Sidney the robin

[BWitcher]

Too young to have seen either side (first meeting was 84) but thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread.. this is the forum at it's best. Ignoring the ramblings of Gustix of course!

[steve roberts]

I never considered Dudley Wood a difficult track to ride, I was a mere youngster back then so took no notice of the finer points of speedway. What do other heathens think?Was Dudley Wood a difficult track to ride?

Ps keep posting Gustrix I agree some of your posts leave me scratching my head but the majority are interesting and informative

I was surprised to read many years ago that Cradley resembled Wembley in shape and size...having been to Wembley the track seemed so much bigger but I guess that the surroundings influenced that observation. Always thought that the early heats at Dudley Wood gave reasonable racing but once the dirt moved out it became very much an outside line track...certainly during my visits there.

Yes Salty point taken at Belle vue hyde Rd unless you had reasonable stuff you would struggle.This year at the new Belle Vue again in a modern era if you are on s..t aquipment you will struggle.

Hyde Road had so many racing lines and there was nowhere to hide when up against the likes of Collins and Morton! Chris Morton would have a line of dirt placed on the exit of one of the bends and would only use it if absolutely necessary in making a passing manoeuvre. Superb track and I guess any one could have a go there...only that the Belle Vue riders did it better!

[Sidney the robin]

I was surprised to read many years ago that Cradley resembled Wembley in shape and size...having been to Wembley the track seemed so much bigger but I guess that the surroundings influenced that observation. Always thought that the early heats at Dudley Wood gave reasonable racing but once the dirt moved out it became very much an outside line track...certainly during my visits there.

Hyde Road had so many racing lines and there was nowhere to hide when up against the likes of Collins and Morton! Chris Morton would have a line of dirt placed on the exit of one of the bends and would only use it if absolutely necessary in making a passing manoeuvre. Superb track and I guess any one could have a go there...only that the Belle Vue riders did it better!

Hyde Rd in the Ivan meeting with six in a race,that was a sight to behold a brilliant spectacle.Also i saw Carter's wins in the BLRC they were special also the wet 1983 BLRC was some meeting.I loved my visits to Hyde Rd Hyde Rd and The Shay what a day out they were i still miss them now.

[salty]

I was at Carter's BLRC wins. First one I can't remember many good races except the 2nd place run-off between Mort and Shooey?

Maybe I was unlucky but too many races I saw at Hyde Road were strung out

[steve roberts]

Hyde Rd in the Ivan meeting with six in a race,that was a sight to behold a brilliant spectacle.Also i saw Carter's wins in the BLRC they were special also the wet 1983 BLRC was some meeting.I loved my visits to Hyde Rd Hyde Rd and The Shay what a day out they were i still miss them now.

Never got to the Shay...although I visited a few years ago out of interest but there were no remnants of the track.

[Sidney the robin]

I was at Carter's BLRC wins. First one I can't remember many good races except the 2nd place run-off between Mort and Shooey?

Maybe I was unlucky but too many races I saw at Hyde Road were strung out

One of the Carter wins i can remember being wet 1982 i think 83 was in terrible conditions.In 82 can remember being gutted as i thought Autrey was going to represent Poole but Davis took his place and pulled out after 1 ride. Edited March 6, 2017 by Sidney the robin

[salty]

On the back of this chat I just hunted out my BLRC programmes. Can remember Carter's first in '81 because I'd just moved to London and came up on the Wimbledon coach. Must have done the same for the second, but can't remember a thing about the day/meeting/trip! If it wasn't for the programme I would question whether I actually went. Gundersen won in '83 and it was a wet night, but never in danger of being off.

[Sidney the robin]

On the back of this chat I just hunted out my BLRC programmes. Can remember Carter's first in '81 because I'd just moved to London and came up on the Wimbledon coach. Must have done the same for the second, but can't remember a thing about the day/meeting/trip! If it wasn't for the programme I would question whether I actually went. Gundersen won in '83 and it was a wet night, but never in danger of being off.

 

Honestly me and another lad who is on the forum Hagonshocker must have went over a period to about five rain/offs at Hyde Rd.We seemed jinxed in 83 it hammered down in Swindon and all the way up to Manchester i was amazed it was on.Can remember Lee after being filled in in his first ride and recovering and beating Nielsen in a run/off Erik winning the meeting.

[fatface]

I was at Carter's BLRC wins. First one I can't remember many good races except the 2nd place run-off between Mort and Shooey?

Maybe I was unlucky but too many races I saw at Hyde Road were strung out

You must have conveniently forgotten Mort taking Penhall on the last turn then 😉