Sidney the robin Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 In my lifetime the Belle Vue 1972 team and the Cradley Heath 1983 team were the best i ever saw who was the best so tough to choose. Belle Vue 1972 awesome Mauger,Sjosten,Collins,Pusey,Wilkinson, Broadbelt, Eyre. Cradley Heath 1983 Gundersen,King,Collins,Grahame,Wigg,Pedersen, (A masterstroke Adams change Ravn. So tough Belle Vue for me though just.😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Belle Vue for me too Sid. That was a wonderful Team. Â Peter Ravn also rode for Belle Vue. 1981 - 83 and 1987- 1990. Â A very good and hard Rider if I remember correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted February 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Belle Vue for me too Sid. That was a wonderful Team. Â Peter Ravn also rode for Belle Vue. 1981 - 83 and 1987- 1990. Â A very good and hard Rider if I remember correctly. Just shows WK how Adams has lasted the test of time. A terrific team manager and speedway person and he made a great signing in Ravn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Just shows WK how Adams has lasted the test of time. A terrific team manager and speedway person and he made a great signing in Ravn. Very true Sid. Adams has a terrific record as a Team Manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) In my lifetime the Belle Vue 1972 team and the Cradley Heath 1983 team were the best i ever saw who was the best so tough to choose. Belle Vue 1972 awesome Mauger,Sjosten,Collins,Pusey,Wilkinson, Broadbelt, Eyre. Cradley Heath 1983 Gundersen,King,Collins,Grahame,Wigg,Pedersen, (A masterstroke Adams change Ravn. So tough Belle Vue for me though just. Â I think it is certain that in an overall survey from the start of team racing in 1929, so far as "all time' is concerned the odds are heavily stacked in Belle Vue's favour. There are so many riders with their names linked to Aces who are regarded as all-time greats. IMO a challenging list that historically Cradley Heath could never match - and in the realm of 'speedway's all the era'I would rate the London sides Wembley and Wimbledon as also superior to Cradley Heath. Edited February 20, 2017 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Â I think it is certain that in overall survey from the start of team racing in 1929, so far as "all time' is concerned the odds are heavily stacked in Belle Vue's favour. There are so many riders with their names linked to Aces who are regarded as all-time greats. IMO a challenging list that historically Cradley Heath could never match - and in the realm of 'speedway's all the era'I would rate the London sides Wembley and Wimbledon as also superior to Cradley Heath. Missing the point of the original question - which was - which was the better team? Belle Vue 1972 or Cradley 1983? Of course the correct answer is Cradley 1983. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Mauger was better than gundersen by a point. Cradley reserves clearly stronger - Ravn made the world final as reserve and averaged close to 8? Sjosten and a young PC maybe having the edge over Wigg and King? But Grahame/Phil Collins clearly stronger than Pusey/Wilkinson. Cradley to edge it 40-38 I reckon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) Â I think it is certain that in an overall survey from the start of team racing in 1929, so far as "all time' is concerned the odds are heavily stacked in Belle Vue's favour. There are so many riders with their names linked to Aces who are regarded as all-time greats. IMO a challenging list that historically Cradley Heath could never match - and in the realm of 'speedway's all the era'I would rate the London sides Wembley and Wimbledon as also superior to Cradley Heath. Â Â Missing the point of the original question - which was - which was the better team? Belle Vue 1972 or Cradley 1983? Of course the correct answer is Cradley 1983. Â Not so as you reason Salty. Read my Post again - I said: "I think it is certain that in an overall survey from the start of team racing in 1929, so far as "all time' is concerned the odds are heavily stacked in Belle Vue's favour." Edited February 20, 2017 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 And even if it is a tie look at number eights - and Simon Cross wins it for Cradley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Â Â Â Not so as you reason Salty. Read my Post again - I said: "I think it is certain that in an overall survey from the start of team racing in 1929, so far as "all time' is concerned the odds are heavily stacked in Belle Vue's favour." Yes, which as Salty said is a different topic to tgat raised by Sidney. An interesting Topic to discuss, but nonetheless not what the OP asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Â Â Â Not so as you reason Salty. Read my Post again - I said: "I think it is certain that in an overall survey from the start of team racing in 1929, so far as "all time' is concerned the odds are heavily stacked in Belle Vue's favour." Â Â Yes, which as Salty said is a different topic to tgat raised by Sidney. An interesting Topic to discuss, but nonetheless not what the OP asked. Â I agree - but it is deviation from main themes tgat make debates of interest. But I suppose as I made the comment you, as with others of your ilk, went into automatic 'overdrive' to pull me up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted February 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Mauger was better than gundersen by a point. Cradley reserves clearly stronger - Ravn made the world final as reserve and averaged close to 8? Sjosten and a young PC maybe having the edge over Wigg and King? But Grahame/Phil Collins clearly stronger than Pusey/Wilkinson. Cradley to edge it 40-38 I reckon. I think Ken Eyre out of the two teams was the weakness but he was still a VALUABLE member of the team what did he average 5.8 ish??For me the three Belle Vue heat leaders were superb and i personally believe at his BEST Pusey was at least as good as Collins/Grahame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Â Â Â I agree - but it is deviation from main themes tgat make debates of interest. But I suppose as I made the comment you, as with others of your ilk, went into automatic 'overdrive' to pull me up! A tad hypocritical given your complaints when anyone takes one of "your" threads off topic. Was there a reason why you didn't at least do Sidney the courtesy of giving your thoughts on the thread's question before taking it down a different path? Fwiw I don't think anyone would dispute your assertion. A side with the likes of Craven Mauger Fundin parker j crump peter collins Crang would be unbeatable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 I think Ken Eyre out of the two teams was the weakness but he was still a VALUABLE member of the team what did he average 5.8 ish??For me the three Belle Vue heat leaders were superb and i personally believe at his BEST Pusey was at least as good as Collins/Grahame. Hard to compare the two sides like for like, but more relevant to look at their points differential to see how much they dominated the league by. Both sides only had two away defeats all season, but averaging out their points we find... Belle Vue Home 51 - 26 Away 36 - 42 Cradley Home 53 - 25 Away 32 - 46. Â Cradley on top in both cases and also they had 6 away wins of 20 points or more, whereas the Aces only had one (ironically at Dudley Wood). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) Difficult to compare any great teams (I would include the 1986 Oxford team in any list) as points limits and/or restrictions dictated team strengths and limitations on same. Â Personally, however, I would plump for the Belle Vue team of 1972. Edited February 21, 2017 by steve roberts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruiser McHuge Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 Cradley..that was still the best team I've seen..Ravn was struggling at Belle Vue..going nowhere..and Cradley signed him...when he came back to Hyde Road layer in the season with Cradley he just looked a different rider..fast and confident...and was the Danish match winner in the World Team Cup final that year as well.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 Aces were defending bl champs in 83, had largely the same team (mcmillan and Ravn out for smith and mckinna) and were good enough to finish 5th. But Cradley absolutely spanked them at Hyde rd 29-49, by far the biggest home defeat I witnessed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 Bit of a segway, but I'd have the Aces team of 84 as the best team ever to win....nothing! Mort, Ross, PC, Peter Carr, Smith, Courtney, McKinna. They hammered teams left right and centre all year at home, but got pipped by Ipswich for the league. I think they also finished 2nd in the KO Cup, League Cup and Premiership. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 Yep agree with all that. At one point every rider was averaging over 7. Is that the only season the world pairs champs have spearheaded the same bl side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted February 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Bit of a segway, but I'd have the Aces team of 84 as the best team ever to win....nothing! Mort, Ross, PC, Peter Carr, Smith, Courtney, McKinna. They hammered teams left right and centre all year at home, but got pipped by Ipswich for the league. I think they also finished 2nd in the KO Cup, League Cup and Premiership.Went to Belle Vue in 84 when Reading were there Reading had a good side but were murdered that night 57-23?? that Vue side was a very good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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