Pat Biddle Usa 1930s

[Guest]

Does any member have knowledge of an American rider Pat Biddle who pre-WW2 is said to have rode on tracks in the Midlands including the events that took place at Tamworth? I can find no record of this rider.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Guest

[BL65]

Does any member have knowledge of an American rider Pat Biddle who pre-WW2 is said to have rode on tracks in the Midlands including the events that took place at Tamworth? I can find no record of this rider.

There is mention of Pat Biddle testing at the BSA track.

http://www.national-speedway-museum.co.uk/birmingham-short-term-tracks.html

 

Further reference is made on the Birmingham History Forum, where he is described as having been a fitter and tester at BSA.

https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/speedway.14296/

[Guest]

Does any member have knowledge of an American rider Pat Biddle who pre-WW2 is said to have rode on tracks in the Midlands including the events that took place at Tamworth? I can find no record of this rider.

 

 

There is mention of Pat Biddle testing at the BSA track.

http://www.national-speedway-museum.co.uk/birmingham-short-term-tracks.html

 

Further reference is made on the Birmingham History Forum, where he is described as having been a fitter and tester at BSA.

https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/speedway.14296/

 

That's a most interesting response re Pat Biddle. Your research into the rider is much appreciated. I enjoyed very much reading both the Links you forwarded. Excellent!

Edited February 18, 2017 by Guest

[HertsRacer]

 

 

 

That's almost interesting response re Pat Biddle. Your research into the rider is much appreciated. I enjoyed very much reading both the Links you forwarded. Excellent!

In my topic about pre-war racing at Tamworth, Pat Biddle is mentioned in newspapers as being a regular rider at the track in 1932/3. Formerly with Halls Green and Birmingham he was born in Alabama, USA in 1910. In one article it mentions him "putting on a wonderful show when riding with Jack Parker in 1928 & 1929".

[Guest]

In my topic about pre-war racing at Tamworth, Pat Biddle is mentioned in newspapers as being a regular rider at the track in 1932/3. Formerly with Halls Green and Birmingham he was born in Alabama, USA in 1910. In one article it mentions him "putting on a wonderful show when riding with Jack Parker in 1928 & 1929".

 

I have visited the Speedway Researcher and so far as is possible have studied results for Birmingham tracks in 1928 and 1929 but can find no mention there of Pat Biddle, nor riding in Birmingham teams in the old immediate pre-WW2 National League Division Two.

It would appear that his speedway activity was probably confined to the early 1930s meetings at Tamworth? This is a really intriguing topic.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Guest

[HertsRacer]

 

I have visited the Speedway Researcher and so far as is possible have studied results for Birmingham tracks in 1928 and 1929 but can find no mention there of pat Biddle, nor riding in Birmingham teams in the old immediate pre-WW2 National League Division Two.

It would appear that his speedway activity was probably confined to the early 1930s meetings at Tamworth? This is a really intriguing topic.

Here is a newspaper extract in which he is mentioned.

TAMWORTH HERALD – Meeting 7^th August 1932

“Broadside Bow’s team included Pat Biddle, Bob Harvey, and other well known Nottingham boys. Pat is very popular with the late Halls Green and Perry Bar supporters. Now he is at Tamworth Speedway and hopes to be in good form to ride for the Tamworth team on 14^th August against Nottingham”.

 

The phrasing of the article suggests that he may possibly have had some connection with Nottingham.

[iris123]

Have seen in the 1958 American Motorcycle mag that there is a listing in Hancocks Bridge,New Jersey for a Biddle's BSA and Ariel sales and services.Could this be the same guy who went back and set up a shop?Not unlike former riders of the time

[Guest]

Here is a newspaper extract in which he is mentioned.

TAMWORTH HERALD – Meeting 7^th August 1932

“Broadside Bow’s team included Pat Biddle, Bob Harvey, and other well known Nottingham boys. Pat is very popular with the late Halls Green and Perry Bar supporters. Now he is at Tamworth Speedway and hopes to be in good form to ride for the Tamworth team on 14^th August against Nottingham”.

 

The phrasing of the article suggests that he may possibly have had some connection with Nottingham.

 

I have checked Nottingham on the Speedway Researcher but they only carry details of the 1928 season, although there are other seasons in which the track operated. No mention in the 1928 results for Pat Biddle there. Of course, he may have appeared at the track in the 'missing' seasons.

 

I have just visited the authortive 'A-Z Speedway' which carries biographical details of many riders. To my surprise I found Pat Biddle is listed there - unfortunately no biographical details are available at the present time. So - the mystery deepens.

http://www.speedwayatoz.co.uk/page4.html

Edited February 18, 2017 by Guest

[iris123]

In my topic about pre-war racing at Tamworth, Pat Biddle is mentioned in newspapers as being a regular rider at the track in 1932/3. Formerly with Halls Green and Birmingham he was born in Alabama, USA in 1910. In one article it mentions him "putting on a wonderful show when riding with Jack Parker in 1928 & 1929".

It would make sense if he was a BSA employee to be riding at the track by the factory..Possibly where he started out.But what is the connection with Jack Parker?Wasn't he at Coventry at this time(1929)?

 

Again having checked the Researcher it seems some data isn't available,so he could have ridden.Maybe it is though just false info

Edited February 18, 2017 by iris123

[HertsRacer]

It would make sense if he was a BSA employee to be riding at the track by the factory..Possibly where he started out.But what is the connection with Jack Parker?Wasn't he at Coventry at this time(1929)?

 

Again having checked the Researcher it seems some data isn't available,so he could have ridden.Maybe it is though just false info

In BL65's link to Pat Biddle testing at the BSA track it says that Jack Parker also tested there. I think this may well be what the paper is referring to, nothing to do with racing on a proper speedway track. A bit of journalistic licence to promote Tamworth I think.

[Guest]

In BL65's link to Pat Biddle testing at the BSA track it says that Jack Parker also tested there. I think this may well be what the paper is referring to, nothing to do with racing on a proper speedway track. A bit of journalistic licence to promote Tamworth I think.

 

There is a strong possibility of a Jack Parker-Pat Biddle-BSA link at this time circa 1928-29. The understanding from previous Posts is that both Parker and Biddle had links with BSA. The understanding must also be that Parker was a works contract rider for BSA which would have ensured his contact with Biddle who was also associated with BSA.

​Here's 'more fuel' to help keep alive this intriguing thread.

http://www.national-speedway-museum.co.uk/bsa-dt-artical.html

Edited February 18, 2017 by Guest

[iris123]

A bit of journalistic licence to promote Tamworth I think.

I guess so.Doesn't seem that Biddle was in the class of Jack Parker.Unless the "show" was Biddle was a great starter and Jack toyed with him before making a pass

[HertsRacer]

Have seen in the 1958 American Motorcycle mag that there is a listing in Hancocks Bridge,New Jersey for a Biddle's BSA and Ariel sales and services.Could this be the same guy who went back and set up a shop?Not unlike former riders of the time

Could very well be. It seems he stopped racing here in 1932, and I would be surprised if he didn't return to the US when the threat of war in Europe became apparent.

[Guest]

There is a brief mention of Pat Biddle in this Link under the BIRMINGHAM, BSA WORKS item.

http://www.national-speedway-museum.co.uk/birmingham-short-term-tracks.html

Edited February 18, 2017 by Guest

[HertsRacer]

 

There is a strong possibility of a Jack Parker-Pat Biddle-BSA link at this time circa 1928-29. The understanding from previous Posts is that both Parker and Biddle had links with BSA. The understanding must also be that Parker was a works contract rider for BSA which would have ensured his contact with Biddle who was also associated with BSA.

​Here's 'more fuel' to help keep alive this intriguing thread.

http://www.national-speedway-museum.co.uk/bsa-dt-artical.html

I've found Pat Biddle appearing regularly at Coventry Lythalls Lane track in 1930. He is listed as a Perry Barr rider, and he appears to have had a fair bit of success result wise. Full details on Speedway Researcher.

[Guest]

I've found Pat Biddle appearing regularly at Coventry Lythalls Lane track in 1930. He is listed as a Perry Barr rider, and he appears to have had a fair bit of success result wise. Full details on Speedway Researcher.

 

Thank you HertsRacer. I have also been to the 'very hard to understand' Speedway Researcher page for 1930. That colour system IMO is just too much. But doubtless we have some members who will understand and see it clearly, so here's the LINK:

http://www.speedwayresearcher.org.uk/docs/coventrylythalls/1930.pdf

 

​PS: I noted - after a struggle - that Pat Biddle is listed as ENGLISH. Apart from that I could not understand what to do for his results.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Guest

[HertsRacer]

 

Thank you HertsRacer. I have also been to the 'very hard to understand' Speedway Researcher page for 1930. That colour system IMO is just too much. But doubtless we have some members who will understand and see it clearly, so here's the LINK:

http://www.speedwayresearcher.org.uk/docs/coventrylythalls/1930.pdf

 

​PS: I noted - after a struggle - that Pat Biddle is listed as ENGLISH. Apart from that I could not understand what to do for his results.

I noticed too that he is described as English. I suppose as he lived here they regarded him as such.

As to reading the link, once you have opened it (and yes you do need sunglasses) best to enlarge the page by clicking on the circle with a cross in it, bottom right hand side. Then just scroll down and details of all the meetings/races are listed.

[Guest]

Pat Biddle: his Coventry 1930 results:

My grandson has found the rider's results on the thread and he seems to understand them. He explained how to study them but IMO it is all far too elaborate. But I do accept that it is positive data (in some way) about Pat Biddle's activities in speedway racing.

 

Thanks also to HertsRacer for his post.

I noticed too that he is described as English. I suppose as he lived here they regarded him as such.

As to reading the link, once you have opened it (and yes you do need sunglasses) best to enlarge the page by clicking on the circle with a cross in it, bottom right hand side. Then just scroll down and details of all the meetings/races are listed.

 

As you comment HertsRacer - sunglasses may be needed to read the 'over-elaborate' Speedway Researcher thread re Pat Biddle. However, it is confirmation that he did race on a UK speedway track.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Guest

[chunky]

 

Apart from that I could not understand what to do for his results.

 

When studying results from that time period, you have to remember that: 1) Formats were very different from today, and 2) Records may not be complete.

 

Taking the meeting on Monday, June 16, what I would glean from the information given is that there were FOUR separate events; the Stadium Open Handicap (7 races, including two semis and a final), a Junior Knockout Scratch Race, two Star Match Races (between Ginger Lees and Harold Stevens), and the Stadium Scratch Races (7 heats including two semis and a final). The details of these events and heat numbers are self-explanatory, but may appear confusing as results are clearly incomplete.

 

As far as Pat Biddle, he clearly rode in the Stadium Scratch Races, finishing second to Ginger Lees in his heat, and his semi-final, then finishing last in the final. It is quite possible that he rode in the Handicap event also, but did not make it out of his heat.

 

Steve

[Guest]

 

When studying results from that time period, you have to remember that: 1) Formats were very different from today, and 2) Records may not be complete.

 

Taking the meeting on Monday, June 16, what I would glean from the information given is that there were FOUR separate events; the Stadium Open Handicap (7 races, including two semis and a final), a Junior Knockout Scratch Race, two Star Match Races (between Ginger Lees and Harold Stevens), and the Stadium Scratch Races (7 heats including two semis and a final). The details of these events and heat numbers are self-explanatory, but may appear confusing as results are clearly incomplete.

 

As far as Pat Biddle, he clearly rode in the Stadium Scratch Races, finishing second to Ginger Lees in his heat, and his semi-final, then finishing last in the final. It is quite possible that he rode in the Handicap event also, but did not make it out of his heat.

 

Steve

 

Thanks for the response chunky. But those results could have been set out far more simply IMO. Something on this style perhaps? (Taken from a New Cross meeting to illustrate):

New Cross Scratch Race

Ht1 Parker, Wells, Price, Bishop (f) 62.0

Ht2 Lloyd, Pye, 66.6

Ht3 Clarke, French, Wotton, White (f) 62.8

Ht4 Pymar, Hart, Erskine, Mitchell (f) 63.8

Final Parker, Clarke, Pymar, Lloyd 62.0

Edited February 18, 2017 by Guest