The White Knight Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Yes, it is. It certainly isn't in Rugby League, for example. I might suggest that for a Championship club gaining entry to the riches of the FA Premiership via a play off system far, far outweighs winning that league. But that misses the point. Speedway can have the play offs and £200k additional income or it can have league winners and lose out on that. Are you really willing to deprive the cash strapped, loss making sport we love of that money ? ................ and if the price is the Sport's Credibility? As Vincent Blackshadow has pointed out - how many people stopped going due to the irrelevance of Meetings later in the Season, or got tired of the whole idea of the various League Championship Meetings being totally irrelevant, for that is what they are - totally irrelevant. Far better Bill them as a Cup Competition. That would, at least, be more honest. I'm from scunthorpe and would like to add the lack of a winning team keeps many locals away the product it's self is very good if you view every meeting as a neutral as I do win or loose as long as I'm entertained not to concerned by the result. However the town has an attitude of if they ain't winning I'm not going and this follows the same pattern with the football club. That very statement re-enforces my view that Double Points and Tactical Substitutes are just contrivances. Do away with them and you will get more Home wins, and, Home Promoters, Riders and Supporters go home happy. More importantly, the Supporters will come back the following week to follow a winning Team. There will still be Away wins - but not as many. This would be much fairer for both Home and Away Supporters. It might also encourage wavering Supporters to stay with the Sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillwhitewasmad Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) Not a fan of double points rides or giving someone 7 rides however don't think in Scunthorpe's case last year that any of last seasons losses were due to these rules. It was more a case of the better side won on day and in general even the heavier home defeats were full of good racing which is all we want to see. Do feel though tracks should be prepared so they can be raced and not just ridden no setting them up for a huge home advantage where the visiting team is searching for the dreaded setups for the first 10 heats its usually game over by then. Think scunthorpe is a good example plenty of dirt and racing lines grip is usually pretty even through a meeting and as the dirt moves out those who want to chase it can, those who don't can be just as quick on the slicker inside line. Edited January 21, 2017 by phillwhitewasmad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 ................ and if the price is the Sport's Credibility? As Vincent Blackshadow has pointed out - how many people stopped going due to the irrelevance of Meetings later in the Season, or got tired of the whole idea of the various League Championship Meetings being totally irrelevant, for that is what they are - totally irrelevant. Far better Bill them as a Cup Competition. That would, at least, be more honest. Surely if it was the case that at the end the total crowd figures were noticeably down on the previous seasons without playoffs then they would be scrapped double quick?No sport just keeps playoffs because of the fun of it.By keeping them there must be a feeling it is better than what went before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 ................ and if the price is the Sport's Credibility? As Vincent Blackshadow has pointed out - how many people stopped going due to the irrelevance of Meetings later in the Season, or got tired of the whole idea of the various League Championship Meetings being totally irrelevant, for that is what they are - totally irrelevant. Far better Bill them as a Cup Competition. That would, at least, be more honest. That very statement re-enforces my view that Double Points and Tactical Substitutes are just contrivances. Do away with them and you will get more Home wins, and, Home Promoters, Riders and Supporters go home happy. More importantly, the Supporters will come back the following week to follow a winning Team. There will still be Away wins - but not as many. This would be much fairer for both Home and Away Supporters. It might also encourage wavering Supporters to stay with the Sport. I really do not know how it can be stated that the meetings throughout the season are 'irrelevant' when almost every single one counts towards getting into a play off position and there are unquestionably far more dead rubbers at the end of the year under a league winner system. There's no question that tactical changes are a contrivance - not so much to ensure away wins, but to make meetings more interesting. The very fact that speedway has had them for 50 years must say something about why they are felt to be necessary. I will say, though, that watching NL speedway last year I did not miss them. It seems to me of those who are critical of tactical changes most have an issue with tactical rides but are happy with tactical substitutes. They entirely miss the point that the latter affect scores more and could cost thousands of pounds more to a sport that most certainly does not need that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 That's your opinion others think differently Very probably beyond the comprehension of a twonk like you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 My thinking of things is whoever wins the league are champions.The other three join up have a interest and also the team who wins the league can get the double.A proper league winner going into a cup competition would that not be good i think it could ŵork. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Surely if it was the case that at the end the total crowd figures were noticeably down on the previous seasons without playoffs then they would be scrapped double quick?No sport just keeps playoffs because of the fun of it.By keeping them there must be a feeling it is better than what went before There may be a feeling................. .................................... but it doesn't feel that way to me, and, I suspect a lot of others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 There may be a feeling................. .................................... but it doesn't feel that way to me, and, I suspect a lot of others. But then again,you don't add up the figures and have to pay the bills,so i guess have less idea of the results than those that do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 But then again,you don't add up the figures and have to pay the bills,so i guess have less idea of the results than those that do I admit that you could be right about that. I just don't think you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) ................ and if the price is the Sport's Credibility? As Vincent Blackshadow has pointed out - how many people stopped going due to the irrelevance of Meetings later in the Season, or got tired of the whole idea of the various League Championship Meetings being totally irrelevant, for that is what they are - totally irrelevant. Far better Bill them as a Cup Competition. That would, at least, be more honest. That very statement re-enforces my view that Double Points and Tactical Substitutes are just contrivances. Do away with them and you will get more Home wins, and, Home Promoters, Riders and Supporters go home happy. More importantly, the Supporters will come back the following week to follow a winning Team. There will still be Away wins - but not as many. This would be much fairer for both Home and Away Supporters. It might also encourage wavering Supporters to stay with the Sport. i've never agreed with your view to remove all tactical rides TWK but that is a good point - home wins are generally good for business however you're wasting your breath about play offs - far too lucrative to give up now - I'd prefer league champions and play offs winners given another title Edited January 21, 2017 by ch958 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 That's your opinion others think differently Very probably beyond the comprehension of a twonk like you Tbf, on this occasion starman makes a valid point.Simply doing what worked 40-50 years ago is not the basis for a successful business model. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 My thinking of things is whoever wins the league are champions.The other three join up have a interest and also the team who wins the league can get the double.A proper league winner going into a cup competition would that not be good i think it could ŵork. I recall back in 2002 when Oxford were 'denied' the opportunity of defending their hard fought championship (2001) because Peterborough failed to fulfil it's remaining home fixture (Oxford) before the cut-off date (presumably instigated by SKY?). Peterborough went forward to the Play-Offs much to the disgust of many Oxford supporters at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Tbf, on this occasion starman makes a valid point. Simply doing what worked 40-50 years ago is not the basis for a successful business model. The counter argument to that being that all the changes instigated since those days have hardly brought a rosy future to Speedway - have they? One might ask oneself might things have been better had they left things well alone? Change for changes sake rarely works, and it is my belief has actually made Speedway a less viable proposition than it used to be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 i've never agreed with your view to remove all tactical rides TWK but that is a good point - home wins are generally good for business however you're wasting your breath about play offs - far too lucrative to give up now - I'd prefer league champions and play offs winners given another title It's been explain countless times ..no one go to plays offs that don't include the league title being on the line ..it' s the same mistake people keep coming up with... plans with out any thought about how it's going to work money wise ..the old chestnut about playoffs not working is shown to wrong by working in every sport they are try . The bottom line the people who don't like play off in all sports tend to be all over 60 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 It's been explain countless times ..no one go to plays offs that don't include the league title being on the line ..it' s the same mistake people keep coming up with... plans with out any thought about how it's going to work money wise ..the old chestnut about playoffs not working is shown to wrong by working in every sport they are try . The bottom line the people who don't like play off in all sports tend to be all over 60 . ...but as I've tried to clarify do Play-Offs decide who wins League Championships in football or is it a system to decide promotion and regulation? Does the team who finishes top in the Premier League (and the other leagues) not finish as champions? If that is the case why doesn't football follow that remit? I've nothing personal against Play-Off's (it's an American innovation) but not all sports appear to adopt that system. ...but as I've tried to clarify do Play-Offs decide who wins League Championships in football or is it a system to decide promotion and regulation? Does the team who finishes top in the Premier League (and the other leagues) not finish as champions? If that is the case why doesn't football follow that remit? I've nothing personal against Play-Off's (it's an American innovation) but not all sports appear to adopt that system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 ...but as I've tried to clarify do Play-Offs decide who wins League Championships in football or is it a system to decide promotion and regulation? Does the team who finishes top in the Premier League (and the other leagues) not finish as champions? If that is the case why doesn't football follow that remit? I've nothing personal against Play-Off's (it's an American innovation) but not all sports appear to adopt that system. Yet again in football they have plenty to play for so there is no need to decide the title like that ...speedway sadly does not have that option ...the season for most clubs out plays off would be over before it started and crowds would drop because of that and put clubs in trouble money wise , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 It's been explain countless times ..no one go to plays offs that don't include the league title being on the line ..it' s the same mistake people keep coming up with... plans with out any thought about how it's going to work money wise ..the old chestnut about playoffs not working is shown to wrong by working in every sport they are try . The bottom line the people who don't like play off in all sports tend to be all over 60 . Probably because we were taught about Sportsmanship and Fair Play from a young age. Something, I am sad to say, that is lacking in Sport these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Probably because we were taught about Sportsmanship and Fair Play from a young age. Something, I am sad to say, that is lacking in Sport these days. Who is breaking a sportmanship and fair play ? everyone knows the rules before the start of the season . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) Yet again in football they have plenty to play for so there is no need to decide the title like that ...speedway sadly does not have that option ...the season for most clubs out plays off would be over before it started and crowds would drop because of that and put clubs in trouble money wise , As I keep re-itereating the title in Football is decided by whoever finishes top. The Play-Offs determine who gets promoted and relegated...not to decide the winners. However I realise that money and TV coverage is the fundamental issue...just trying to clarify matters in that Football and Speedway differ in its objectives. Edited January 22, 2017 by steve roberts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Tbf, on this occasion starman makes a valid point. Simply doing what worked 40-50 years ago is not the basis for a successful business model. Thank you. Times have changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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