British Speedway - Dead Or Alive?

[Starman2006]

Decent crowds in those days.

 

No Double Points, no Play Offs etc. Just plain old fashioned Speedway Races with a Second Half to add to your enjoyment. The League Champions were just that - League Champions.

 

Those were the days.

And if you had that nowadays Speedway would have been dead years ago..

[Triple.H.]

And if you had that nowadays Speedway would have been dead years ago..

That's your opinion others think differently

Very probably beyond the comprehension of a twonk like you

[ruffdiamond]

Decent crowds in those days.

 

No Double Points, no Play Offs etc. Just plain old fashioned Speedway Races with a Second Half to add to your enjoyment. The League Champions were just that - League Champions.

 

Those were the days.

and 20 Woodbine and a selection of crisps,,, plain, or ready salted

[Halifaxtiger]

Fundamentally speedway is a spectator sport and is totally reliant on admission prices and sponsorship. With many young people privately renting and living costs / inflation rising the amount of disposable income from the target audience is restricted. To attract new fans and to hang on to current ones admissions costs have to fall. For a single person who is passionate about the sport that is fine but the majority of spectators look on speedway as a recreational pursuit to be enjoyed with a partner and family.

 

Ultimately we need to look at the entertainment value and what we are getting for £19 admission. The empty terraces with old enthusiasts like me reminiscing about the past won't pay the bills or take the sport back to health. It's not the odd exciting race that we need to focus on but the foundations and scaffold of speedway that have held it together for nearly 90 years. Home grown riders would be a good point of reference.

 

Realistically it's not point arguing about the merits of paying £18 or £20 to watch a meeting for most people it is unaffordable but for some reason no one seems to get it?

 

 

To me, its not so much about cost as value for money (to be fair, you do raise that).

 

Halifax Town is £16 entry, Leeds United £25 or so. In cost terms, speedway is comparable.

 

I paid £25 for my ticket for the EL Grand Final at NSS last season and, like me, I doubt if there was anyone who didn't think he got his money's worth. Aside from the lack of a true grandstand finish, it had everything - fantastic atmosphere, a pantomime villain, two totally committed teams and some stunning racing on a world class track.

 

The 4's weekend at Peterborough cost £30-£40 (I forget precisely how much). Again, no-one was complaining about the cost because it was just fantastic.

 

Finally, I regularly attend Scunthorpe. Like many, that's for the quality of the speedway because I don't think I came away once feeling short changed and, on several occasions, dazed at just how amazing it had been. Workington and Isle of Wight are two other places that came under that heading - Isle of Wight more for the overall experience, it must be said.

 

And therein lies the problem because, as a well travelled fan with 80 meetings under his belt last year, I couldn't say that about every one. Indeed, it would be more often than not that the opposite would be true and I firmly believe that there is simply not enough effort made to ensure the fan gets what he wants by putting him first (and last) every single time.

 

Take Sheffield. Owlerton is rightly acknowledged as a very fine racing circuit but over the last couple of years it has been rubbish, with good races rare and good meetings almost non existent. That's apparently because the track was stripped bare at the behest of the riders and/or the management. Sheffield had a decent team last year and reached the PL play off final. Gates should have been up, but I doubt that they were because the speedway was awful. That just has to change, not just there but at a lot of other places too.

That's your opinion others think differently

Very probably beyond the comprehension of a twonk like you

 

I don't - or at least I think he has a point.

 

For a start, there's no difference between tactical rides and tactical substitutes apart from the fact that the latter cost a lot more.

 

Even their worst knockers would accept that play off meetings attract bigger gates - the NSS was packed for the EL Final last season. That's something speedway just can't turn down and, indeed, could be the difference between financial success or failure for some teams.

 

Like it or not, speedway just isn't in a position to turn that down.

[Sidney the robin]

And if you had that nowadays Speedway would have been dead years ago..

The thing is were you around in those days?

[Triple.H.]

I like many am no fan of the tactical ride rule but would love a return to the old TacSub rule. Get managers doing there job

There also needs a reintroduction of a supplementary reserve type ruling

[The White Knight]

I just wish that there were no Tactical Substitutes or Tactical Rides.

 

Why on earth can Speedway not just settle for the Result on the Track? That is what people go to watch after all.

 

OK - some Teams will take a hammering once in a while but that's life - I should know - I follow Sunderland AFC.

 

The fact is you would probably get more Home wins which would suit the Promoter, and the Home Riders would get more points therefore get more Pay.

 

It would be much fairer on all Teams, as a Team that had been well beaten Away from Home would be able to gain their revenge in the return Fixture. An Away win would then be even more meritorious than it is now.

 

You could even have, perish the thought, an extra League Point for the Team scoring the most Points over the two Meetings. This would encourage maximum effort from both Team's Riders.

[Triple.H.]

We did have the aggregate points system 20 odd years ago

Yet again another short lived experiment in a 5yr plan

Edited January 20, 2017 by Triple.H.

[Vincent Blachshadow]

And if you had that nowadays Speedway would have been dead years ago..

 

Would it though? I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority of those that go now would still be going (they don't attend just because of play-offs, tac rides or whatever so would have started going anyway), the sport would most likely have kept quite a few of those that have stopped going (TWK and Barney Rabbit for a start) and they could well have introduced more newbies. I honestly believe it would more likely be in better fettle (maybe only slightly better, but better) rather than dead.

[Halifaxtiger]

 

Would it though? I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority of those that go now would still be going (they don't attend just because of play-offs, tac rides or whatever so would have started going anyway), the sport would most likely have kept quite a few of those that have stopped going (TWK and Barney Rabbit for a start) and they could well have introduced more newbies. I honestly believe it would more likely be in better fettle (maybe only slightly better, but better) rather than dead.

 

I'd say that Belle Vue probably made in the region of £100k ticket receipts from that one play off meeting and, if their break even was 1,500 and there were 4,000 there (which I think is about right), at £25 a ticket that's over £60,000 in clear profit from just one meeting.

 

If Wolverhampton were the same, that £120k from two meetings. That doesn't take into account the semi finals or the PL or NL meetings or the significant reduction in the number of loss making dead meetings after a league title is won.

 

Shall we say £200k in additional revenue across the board ? Ditch the play offs and you would deprive an unquestionably cash strapped, loss making sport of that income and at £20 a go, it would take 10,000 additional entries to make it up or 500 TWK and Barney Rabbits going 20 times a year.

 

As to newbies, Belle Vue had a fair few of them on play off night attracted by the nature of the one off, sudden death final.

 

There's a reason why the NL reverted to play offs after just one season and why they are common place in other sports.

 

Its a reason that, whatever we might think about them, speedway simply cannot ignore and I find it very difficult to believe that it would be in a better place financially without them.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Halifaxtiger

[steve roberts]

 

I'd say that Belle Vue probably made in the region of £100k ticket receipts from that one play off meeting. That's without programmes, TV rights, car parking etc. If Wolverhampton made the same and accepting an entry fee of £20, we'd need 10,000 additional entries to make up that revenue.

 

That doesn't take into account additional amounts made by the EL semi finals and PL & NL play offs.

 

Its going to take an awful lot of TWK & Barney Rabbits to make that up - around 500 attending 20 meetings a season at least and getting rid of them I suspect you would deprive speedway of about £100k net profit.

 

Its why the NL reverted to the play offs after one season without them, and why they are absolutely common place across sport.

 

As to newbies, Belle Vue was packed with them on play off night.

Quote me if I'm wrong, and excuse my ignorance regarding football, but is it true that the team that finishes top of the league are declared champions and the play-off system is used to decide who gets promoted/relegated?

[Halifaxtiger]

Quote me if I'm wrong, and excuse my ignorance regarding football, but is it true that the team that finishes top of the league are declared champions and the play-off system is used to decide who gets promoted/relegated?

 

Yes, it is. It certainly isn't in Rugby League, for example.

 

I might suggest that for a Championship club gaining entry to the riches of the FA Premiership via a play off system far, far outweighs winning that league.

 

But that misses the point. Speedway can have the play offs and £200k additional income or it can have league winners and lose out on that.

 

Are you really willing to deprive the cash strapped, loss making sport we love of that money ?

Edited January 21, 2017 by Halifaxtiger

[steve roberts]

 

Yes, it is. It certainly isn't in Rugby League, for example.

 

I might suggest that for a Championship club gaining entry to the riches of the FA Premiership via a play off system far, far outweighs winning that league.

 

But that misses the point. Speedway can have the play offs and £200k additional income or it can have league winners and lose out on that.

 

Are you really willing to deprive the cash strapped, loss making sport we love of that money ?

I was just wishing to clarify the point that other sports perhaps have a different system in place regarding who ends up as champions. Play-Offs are, if I am correct, a mechanism that decides who is promoted and/or relegated (as in the football league for example) which of course isn't the case within speedway (promotion and relegation...although it's been tried in the past and I believe is about to be re-introduced?)

 

My query wasn't about the financial implications (although that's a massive consideration...certainly within football) but Play-Offs generally within sport and their implication generally.

Edited January 21, 2017 by steve roberts

[arnieg]

Well looking at the rest of the speedway world:

 

Poland - champions decided by play-off final

Sweden - ditto

Denmark - 'Superfinalen' using 4TT format determines champions

Germany - champions decided by play-off final

 

But:

 

Russia - no playoffs (however there are only three teams in the league)

Czechia - no playoffs (but all matches are 4TT involving all four teams)

Finland - no playoffs (in a five team league where 4TT format is used)

 

And as for other sports, well in NFL the Superbowl seems quite popular!

[iris123]

Indeed.I think Ice Hockey is another sport that favours playoffs after a qualifying league competition.Stanley Cup and the German Ice Hockey Bundesliga etc.And if you look at this truly international competition,the league is just the lead up to the play-offs.sadly the German federation turned down the idea of having a team based in Hamburg in this league featuring teams from Latvia,Croatia,Finland,China,Slovakia,Minsk and Russia

 

http://en.khl.ru/clubs/

Edited January 21, 2017 by iris123

[Vincent Blachshadow]

 

I'd say that Belle Vue probably made in the region of £100k ticket receipts from that one play off meeting and, if their break even was 1,500 and there were 4,000 there (which I think is about right), at £25 a ticket that's over £60,000 in clear profit from just one meeting.

 

If Wolverhampton were the same, that £120k from two meetings. That doesn't take into account the semi finals or the PL or NL meetings or the significant reduction in the number of loss making dead meetings after a league title is won.

 

Shall we say £200k in additional revenue across the board ? Ditch the play offs and you would deprive an unquestionably cash strapped, loss making sport of that income and at £20 a go, it would take 10,000 additional entries to make it up or 500 TWK and Barney Rabbits going 20 times a year.

 

As to newbies, Belle Vue had a fair few of them on play off night attracted by the nature of the one off, sudden death final.

 

There's a reason why the NL reverted to play offs after just one season and why they are common place in other sports.

 

Its a reason that, whatever we might think about them, speedway simply cannot ignore and I find it very difficult to believe that it would be in a better place financially without them.

 

The point I was making is that nobody that attends (League) speedway today does so because of the play-off carrot, they go for their love of four blokes on bikes so would most likely still be going if speedway was being run as it was back then and the sport would not have lost many of those that have packed up because of the constant tinkering.

 

The whys and wherefores of the play-offs have been done to death on countless other threads and Belle Vue made some cash out of them but I often wonder how much is lost on the way by people not attending many of the qualifying matches.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Vincent Blackshadow

[Shale Searcher]

I agree that the racing at Scunthorpe is generally really, really good... Always passing, and rides well, even in the wet, and they always make a really good effort to get meetings on in inclement weather... The foods ok, and the prices are reasonable, but not much in the luxury seating/indoor viewing.....

 

BUT......

 

 

Why don't they get the crowd levels you should expect from a track that produces top notch racing???

 

It should be packed to the rafters if attendance is based around good racing. But they struggle with attendances.... WHY???

[New Science]

 

To me, its not so much about cost as value for money (to be fair, you do raise that).

 

Halifax Town is £16 entry, Leeds United £25 or so. In cost terms, speedway is comparable.

 

I paid £25 for my ticket for the EL Grand Final at NSS last season and, like me, I doubt if there was anyone who didn't think he got his money's worth. Aside from the lack of a true grandstand finish, it had everything - fantastic atmosphere, a pantomime villain, two totally committed teams and some stunning racing on a world class track.

 

The 4's weekend at Peterborough cost £30-£40 (I forget precisely how much). Again, no-one was complaining about the cost because it was just fantastic.

 

Finally, I regularly attend Scunthorpe. Like many, that's for the quality of the speedway because I don't think I came away once feeling short changed and, on several occasions, dazed at just how amazing it had been. Workington and Isle of Wight are two other places that came under that heading - Isle of Wight more for the overall experience, it must be said.

 

And therein lies the problem because, as a well travelled fan with 80 meetings under his belt last year, I couldn't say that about every one. Indeed, it would be more often than not that the opposite would be true and I firmly believe that there is simply not enough effort made to ensure the fan gets what he wants by putting him first (and last) every single time.

 

Take Sheffield. Owlerton is rightly acknowledged as a very fine racing circuit but over the last couple of years it has been rubbish, with good races rare and good meetings almost non existent. That's apparently because the track was stripped bare at the behest of the riders and/or the management. Sheffield had a decent team last year and reached the PL play off final. Gates should have been up, but I doubt that they were because the speedway was awful. That just has to change, not just there but at a lot of other places too.

 

I don't - or at least I think he has a point.

 

For a start, there's no difference between tactical rides and tactical substitutes apart from the fact that the latter cost a lot more.

 

Even their worst knockers would accept that play off meetings attract bigger gates - the NSS was packed for the EL Final last season. That's something speedway just can't turn down and, indeed, could be the difference between financial success or failure for some teams.

 

Like it or not, speedway just isn't in a position to turn that down.

The best, most balanced post I have read yet on the state of British speedway

[phillwhitewasmad]

I agree that the racing at Scunthorpe is generally really, really good... Always passing, and rides well, even in the wet, and they always make a really good effort to get meetings on in inclement weather... The foods ok, and the prices are reasonable, but not much in the luxury seating/indoor viewing.....

BUT......

Why don't they get the crowd levels you should expect from a track that produces top notch racing???

It should be packed to the rafters if attendance is based around good racing. But they struggle with attendances.... WHY???

I'm from scunthorpe and would like to add the lack of a winning team keeps many locals away the product it's self is very good if you view every meeting as a neutral as I do win or loose as long as I'm entertained not to concerned by the result. However the town has an attitude of if they ain't winning I'm not going and this follows the same pattern with the football club.

[Halifaxtiger]

I'm from scunthorpe and would like to add the lack of a winning team keeps many locals away the product it's self is very good if you view every meeting as a neutral as I do win or loose as long as I'm entertained not to concerned by the result. However the town has an attitude of if they ain't winning I'm not going and this follows the same pattern with the football club.

 

I was going to post but you have done it for me

 

The only comment is Scunthorpe is anything but alone in that.

 

The point I was making is that nobody that attends (League) speedway today does so because of the play-off carrot, they go for their love of four blokes on bikes so would most likely still be going if speedway was being run as it was back then and the sport would not have lost many of those that have packed up because of the constant tinkering.

 

The whys and wherefores of the play-offs have been done to death on countless other threads and Belle Vue made some cash out of them but I often wonder how much is lost on the way by people not attending many of the qualifying matches.

 

That hasn't changed. Its still 4 blokes on bikes without brakes.

 

Seems to me that they didn't love it that much.

 

Every single 'qualifying' league match is as important as in a league winner situation. In fact, more of them are.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Halifaxtiger