Whos Left?

[Islander15]

Shanes and Stoneman are probably the only riders in the league who are struggling to get a team place due to their average. Shanes' plans appear to have been messed up by Kent mostly, rather than the system, and hopefully Stoneman can get a ride at Lakeside.

[John Leslie]

In all, how many riders could miss out on a NL team place in the 2017 season? I make it a possible 37 according to the various previous comments in relation to this. Does any member have a crosscheck total please.

See, you're doing it again. With no logic whatsoever you're writing nonsense that makes no sense, and that you can't back up.

 

Go on, give it a try. Tell us what on earth your nonsense comment is supposed to mean?

 

There were 12 NL teams i.e. 84 places last year. There are 12 NL teams i.e. 84 places this year. So what exactly is "riders missing out" supposed to mean?

[TurnTwo]

I think what he means is, with reduced point limit and last ears riders avg increasing it's unlikely many teams will be able to fit in said riders just looking from Eastbourne avg last year

 

Start

Ellis 10.14

Cottham 4.70

Perks 7.14

Wood 5.9

Knight 6

Powell 3

Harris 3

 

39.88

 

Finish

Ellis 10.98

Cottham4.7

Perks 8.25

Wood 7.62

Knight 8.53

Powell 4.05

Harris 3.95

 

48.08

 

That's an increase of 9 points so top riders have to make way e.g. Adam ellis of 10 points and another eg perks of 8 points giving the team 9 points to fit two 4.5 riders in to fit the new system

[John Leslie]

I think what he means is....

Good of you to try to make sense of his factually inaccurate nonsense, but of course we all know that because there are 6 points in every race, the mean team average for any team in any league is 42. (i.e. 6 pts divided by 4 riders in a race x 7 riders in a team x 4 rides in an average)

 

So any league wishing to maintain the exact same riders for the following season needs a limit of roughly 42. However we know that the NL doesn't maintain the same riders every yeat, it develops new riders to move upwards, and so several riders like Ellis, Clegg, Morris, Carr, Branford etc need to be factored out as they move up a league, and new blood comes in at the bottom end.

 

Take out (say) the 5 riders above who become ineligible as they move up on approx 9pt+ averages and replace them with 5 newcomers on 3.00 averages and that's a total reduction of 30 points, or approx 2.5 pts per team (12 teams).

 

A 42 point average less these 2.5pts brings us to approx 39.5 , and bearing in mind others who also may drop out (retiring Jake Knight etc) we can see that 39 is about the right limit to keep the league operating at it's maximum strength and to allow the NL to keep doing the excellent job of developing riders while providing high quality racing.

[poolebolton]

Shanes to Plymouth. The Poole Training ground.

[brianbuck]

This list just highlights the sheer folly of allowing riders to ride for more than one team. The riders are griping that they can only make a living if they ride for two (or three) teams but they should stop for a minute, and consider that by doing this they are depriving 40-odd of their fellow riders of the chance of earning any money at all.

Edited January 1, 2017 by BBuck

[Mike0310]

This list just highlights the sheer folly of allowing riders to ride for more than one team. The riders are griping that they can only make a living if they ride for two (or three) teams but they should stop for a minute, and consider that by doing this they are depriving 40-odd of their fellow riders of the chance of earning any money at all.

i totally see where your coming from but I do hope we sign Shanes at Plymouth.

[waiheke1]

In all, how many riders could miss out on a NL team place in the 2017 season? I make it a possible 37 according to the various previous comments in relation to this. Does any member have a crosscheck total please.

I make it over 1.8 million footballers in the uk will miss out on a premier league team place. Does this reflect the downward spiral of English football?

[Guest]

I make it over 1.8 million footballers in the uk will miss out on a premier league team place. Does this reflect the downward spiral of English football?

 

​It's only January 1 and I seem to have found this year's first cuckoo!

What an off-the-thread comment this is by waiheaces1. All the same, it's from 'one of the usual anti-gustix clan" so I guess I cannot assume anything else.

"...they seek me here, they seek me there. they seek me on the BSF everywhere..."

Edited January 1, 2017 by Guest

[John Leslie]

I make it over 1.8 million footballers in the uk will miss out on a premier league team place. Does this reflect the downward spiral of English football?

Exactly.

We know that 12 NL teams will give permanent employment to 84 riders. It can't be any more or less than 84 at any one time. We've also shown mathematically that a 39 (ish) point limit is the best to ensure that the 84 places go to the 84 best NL standard riders.

 

There's nothing in dispute there...basically nothing else to discuss.

 

Anyone who can't grasp the basic facts and babbles on about 35 riders missing out (whilst being unable to name these riders nor explain in what way they are missing out) must be a worry for society.

 

It's like the demented old woman in the high street shouting at the pigeons. Everyone knows it's a barking mad thing to do, no one knows why she does it, but we're all just glad it's not us.

[marko]

With all due respect, at this level the riders main income should be outside of speedway the same as a non league footballer often has a primary job or business outside of his football training and matches.

I would say the same should apply to the lower riders in the middle tier too, the only riders who should be full time riders are those who race for multiple teams at a high standard whether it's in this country of a combination of this and those abroad.

[Guest]

With 25 places left to fill who's going where ?There is 32 riders from last season(there could be more) who are still not with a team place, I'm sure some have quit or found it too tough but, i'm sure you can fill in any blanks.

B.Andrews/J.Bailey/H.Banks/B,Basford/S,Bebee/K,Bowdery,G,Cottham/L&k Dicken/ L,Geary/J,Haldeer/C,Hay/D,Holt/B,Hopwood/E,Jones/J,Kingston/M,Knuckey/M,Leek/C,Locke/R,MacDonald/A,Mellish/L,Millar/D<Morgan

R,Parker/L,Payne/N,Phillips/G,Piper/J,Purchase/S,Tedham/RT Daley.

 

Go on, play the who's going where game

 

Any chance of an update please pete cc? How many from your initial list might still be affected?

[uk_martin]

I wonder what would be the outcome if all riders interested and committed to riding in the NL had to register with the league first (a bit like doing a job application) and then there was an embargo on teams signing the (say) over 25's until all of the under 25's had been found team places?

 

Surely it's wrong for young potential to be stifled because of old crocs on high averages hogging team places?

Edited January 2, 2017 by uk martin

[waiheke1]

In all, how many riders could miss out on a NL team place in the 2017 season? I make it a possible 37 according to the various previous comments in relation to this. Does any member have a crosscheck total please.

So how are you defining these 37 riders? Given there are the same number of teams as last year, where have these additionAl 37 riders come from? And would it not be a good thing if we did have an extra 37 riders? Have you included Steve Brum amongst them or what criteria have you used?

[Guest]

So how are you defining these 37 riders? Given there are the same number of teams as last year, where have these additionAl 37 riders come from? And would it not be a good thing if we did have an extra 37 riders? Have you included Steve Brum amongst them or what criteria have you used?

 

 

With 25 places left to fill who's going where ?There is 32 riders from last season(there could be more) who are still not with a team place, I'm sure some have quit or found it too tough but, i'm sure you can fill in any blanks.

B.Andrews/J.Bailey/H.Banks/B,Basford/S,Bebee/K,Bowdery,G,Cottham/L&k Dicken/ L,Geary/J,Haldeer/C,Hay/D,Holt/B,Hopwood/E,Jones/J,Kingston/M,Knuckey/M,Leek/C,Locke/R,MacDonald/A,Mellish/L,Millar/D<Morgan

R,Parker/L,Payne/N,Phillips/G,Piper/J,Purchase/S,Tedham/RT Daley.

 

Go on, play the who's going where game

 

Study pete cc's Opening Post on the subject. You may learn something from that waihekaces1.

Edited January 2, 2017 by Guest

[Greg]

Would not mind Stonemen at Kings Lynn could do a good job but i beleave he was linked with Mildenhall as lives local .

[arnieg]

Study pete cc's Opening Post on the subject. You may learn something from that waihekaces1.

The majority of riders in the opening poster's list struggled to average 3 last year. They have generally lost out to other 3 point riders. Isn't that the point of sporting competition.

 

The only way more riders will have NL team places is if there are more tracks. A higher limit (or no limit at all) would jeopardize Buxton and the 'second teams' so that wouldn't help.

 

It looks to me as if the limit is pretty much at the sweet spot (see earlier posting from john leslie).

 

I see very few riders with existing GSAs over 3 missing out.

Edited January 2, 2017 by arnieg

[Hunters]

I went a bit further and identified 11 better riders (6.35 upwards) who at this stage look likely non starters for NL and with 1 new one (Boxall) left a combined net shortfall of 84.5 points. Replace with 10 3.0 pointers and the shortfall is 54 or 4.5 per team. This would indicate that only 37.5 are available unless some 'opt outers' change their mind.

In this scenario it is certain that some teams will start at least a point under limit probably more.

 

It also means the statement that no rider over 3.0 should miss out is spot on.

 

Of the two teams completed Cradley are 38.90 and Eastbourne 38.27 which lowers the 37.5 availability even further for the other 10 teams. With Birmingham and Mildenhall also certain to be near the limit the situation must be getting pretty dire for the remaining 8.

Unless there are some surprises none of us has anticipated I am pretty sure one (or more)will be under 37.

[John Leslie]

I went a bit further and identified 11 better riders (6.35 upwards) who at this stage look likely non starters for NL and with 1 new one (Boxall) left a combined net shortfall of 84.5 points. Replace with 10 3.0 pointers and the shortfall is 54 or 4.5 per team. This would indicate that only 37.5 are available unless some 'opt outers' change their mind.

In this scenario it is certain that some teams will start at least a point under limit probably more.

 

It also means the statement that no rider over 3.0 should miss out is spot on.

 

Of the two teams completed Cradley are 38.90 and Eastbourne 38.27 which lowers the 37.5 availability even further for the other 10 teams. With Birmingham and Mildenhall also certain to be near the limit the situation must be getting pretty dire for the remaining 8.

Unless there are some surprises none of us has anticipated I am pretty sure one (or more)will be under 37.

 

 

So, despite some clown spamming this thread with nonsense about 30 riders being put out of work, you reckon there's a place for every 3.00+ rider and we still won't have enough riders to get everyone up to the 39 point limit?

 

I'm a little more optimistic. I reckon we can have full employment and almost all teams will be close to 39.

Edited January 2, 2017 by John Leslie

[Guest]

 

With 25 places left to fill who's going where ?

There is 32 riders from last season(there could be more) who are still not with a team place, I'm sure some have quit or found it too tough but, i'm sure you can fill in any blanks.

B.Andrews/J.Bailey/H.Banks/B,Basford/S,Bebee/K,Bowdery,G,Cottham/L&kDickenL,Geary/J,Haldeer/C,Hay/D,Holt/B,Hopwood/E,Jones/J,Kingston/M,Knuckey/M,Leek/C,Locke/R,MacDonald/A,Mellish/L,Miar/D<MorganR,Parker/L,Payne/N,PhillipG,Piper/J,Purchase/S,Tedham/RT Daley.

 

Go on, play the who's going where game

 

 

Others I can think of our Shanes, Mason, stoneman, Strudwick, Perks, Woods

 

 

I see very few riders with existing GSAs over 3 missing out.

 

Here's a rider who at the moment does miss out:

David Mason, Kent Kings, average 6.54

Edited January 2, 2017 by Guest