Bjorn Knutsson And Lord Rosebery

[BOBBATH]

Thought that would get your attention forumlanders. Rosebery was a golden boy widely expected to replace Gladstone as P.M. which he duly did in 1894 when the G.O.M. finally retired. He lost an election in1895 which he did not need to call as he chose to treat a vote of censure as a vote of non confidence. He resigned when he lost that election but still had many supporters. He was still young and his followers would say "he'll be back " , then as time went on they said "when is he coming back" and finally in 1901 "he's not coming back".

Well Bjorn was the Crown Prince of speedway for so long- 2nd in 1961 WF, 4th in 62 WF 2nd in 63 WF 5th in 64 WF before finally winning in 65. As many know he suffered from nerves and in 1965 was not ,unusually, one of the favourites particularly after he lost his first race to Bengt Jansson. So he finally reached the pinnacle and then retired the following year after another , this time unsuccessful, WF appearance. Many fans, including me, went thru the same set of comments as Rosebery's supporters. Rosebery went on to live a long life now he was under no pressure, and I think the same is occurring for Bjorn. I am a bit of a history buff and have often thought this was a parallel situation albeit in a different sphere and a different century!! Happy new Year everybody.!!.

[E I Addio]

Thought that would get your attention forumlanders. Rosebery was a golden boy widely expected to replace Gladstone as P.M. which he duly did in 1894 when the G.O.M. finally retired. He lost an election in1895 which he did not need to call as he chose to treat a vote of censure as a vote of non confidence. He resigned when he lost that election but still had many supporters. He was still young and his followers would say "he'll be back " , then as time went on Ed's said "when is he coming back" and finally in 1901 "he's not coming back".

Well Bjorn was the Crown Prince of speedway for so long- 2nd in 1961 WF, 4th in 62 WF 2nd in 63 WF 5th in 64 WF before finally winning in 65. As many know he suffered from nerves and in 1965 was not ,unusually, one of the favourites particularly after he lost his first race to Bengt Jansson. So he finally reached the pinnacle and then retired the following year after another , this time unsuccessful, WF appearance. Many fans, including me, went thru the same set of comments as Rosebery's supporters. Rosebery went on to live a long life now he was under no pressure, and I think the same is occurring for Bjorn. I am a bit of a history buff and have often thought this was a parallel situation albeit in a different sphere and a different century!! Happy new Year everybody.!!.

To my mind one of speedways great mysteries is why Bjorn retired when he did, still under 30 years old and potentially with plenty of good years in him.

U

EHe was a few years younger than Briggs and Fundin, and within a year or do of Ivan Mauger, so one of speedways great "what ifs" is what could he have achieved if he had carried on? My guess is he would quite likely have taken one or two of the world titles that eventually went to Mauger, particularly some of the earlier ones, as Fundin and Briggs were starting to get past their best by then and Bjorn was probably the only rider in the world at that time capable of beating Mauger when the erratic and temperamental Olsen had not reached his peak. Knutsson was probably better than Olsen anyway.

 

Any thoughts on the "what if" or why Bjorn retired so prematurely ?

[bruno]

Before my time to have an opinion but love this section on the bsf

[Sidney the robin]

To my mind one of speedways great mysteries is why Bjorn retired when he did, still under 30 years old and potentially with plenty of good years in him.

U

EHe was a few years younger than Briggs and Fundin, and within a year or do of Ivan Mauger, so one of speedways great "what ifs" is what could he have achieved if he had carried on? My guess is he would quite likely have taken one or two of the world titles that eventually went to Mauger, particularly some of the earlier ones, as Fundin and Briggs were starting to get past their best by then and Bjorn was probably the only rider in the world at that time capable of beating Mauger when the erratic and temperamental Olsen had not reached his peak. Knutsson was probably better than Olsen anyway.

Any thoughts on the "what if" or why Bjorn retired so prematurely ?

Knutsson i think would of won maybe a title or two more but to say he was better than Olsen is etretching it a bit ?

[Ovalman]

I remember in the 60s was my fav rider, we went to West Am when New Cross closed just to watch Bjorn.

[BOBBATH]

Besides my previous arcane comparison to Lord Rosebery, another reference point might be to compare Bjorn to Brian Crutcher-another rider who suffered from nerves and retired very young. As regards Bjorn, in 1965 the year he won the WF, he was not riding in UK speedway and thus was a bit off the radar compared to previous years,in fact the 1965 WF was the one and only time I saw Bjorn ride. His Swedish team was Vargarna. They toured the UK in 1966 and I saw their meeting in August at Somerton Park-but checking my program BK wasn't in that meeting. BTW-that was the only home defeat for Newport in 1965. The favourite for the 1965 title was Briggo (according to Eric Linden anyway), although Danny Carter(was he a real person BTW or one of Eric's other nom de plumes??) did pick BK. I reckon Bjorn having become World Champ. thought who needs this pressure and after one more year said "that's it for me" . he did get to the 66 WF but was troubled by machine problems and won only his final race on a bike he borrowed from Briggo who had already won the title .

[E I Addio]

Knutsson i think would of won maybe a title or two more but to say he was better than Olsen is etretching it a bit ?

I am not saying he was either better or worse than Olsen, but looking back on Olsens record he was more inconsistent than a lot of the genuine greats like Fundin, Briggs and Mauger. I think Olsen was another one that suffered from nerves a bit, especially in the early years although he seems to have conquered them later on. All down to opinions of course.

 

Still no answer to why Knutsson retired at such a young age though. Based on something he said in an interview I read years ago I think it might have been that he had had a good run free from injury ( only a broken arm in 10'years) , and decided he had won every honour the sport had to offer and decided to quit while he was still in good shape rather than tempting fate. I could be wrong but that was just my hunch. I wonder if Norbold can throw any light on this ?

[chunky]

Knutsson i think would of won maybe a title or two more but to say he was better than Olsen is etretching it a bit ?

I am not old enough to remember seeing Knutty ride, but judging by other comments I have read over the years, I wouldn't necessarily argue that it would be stretching it to say that he was better than Olsen. Ole can certainly be considered an all-time great, but yes, he could very erratic, and perhaps a little temperamental; I've never heard those terms when discussing Knutson. Five successive top 5 finishes in World Finals would support that.

 

What I would suspect (of course it's just a wild stab) is that, after a disappointing performance in the 1966 Final, he just figured it would be a good time to get out - particularly in light of E I Addio's last paragraph above...

 

Steve

Edited December 28, 2016 by chunky

[norbold]

Knutsson i think would of won maybe a title or two more but to say he was better than Olsen is etretching it a bit ?

As someone who saw Knutson every week at West Ham in 1964 I don't think that's stretching it at all. He was definitely up there with the best of all time. Remember he was one of the "Big Five", handicapped on a par with Fundin, Briggs, Craven and Moore and quite rightly so. In addition, he was quite a bit younger than the other four and had many years at the top ahead of him had he chosen to continue. I agree that he almost certainly would have won more World titles had he not retired early and it is probably the fact he only had one win to his name that he is somewhat forgotten compared to the others.

[BL65]

Bjorn arrived in Britain part way through the 1959 season and was an immediate success. By the end of the following season he had achieved a 10 plus average and joined Ove Fundin, Ronnie Moore, Barry Briggs and Peter Craven to form the ‘big five’, who were eventually considered so good they had to concede a handicap to everyone else in team racing.

 

Bjorn won one world individual title and was second twice. In his first final he won 4 races and fell in the other, against the eventual winner Ove Fundin. In his second final machine failure in a race he was expected to win cost him the chance of a run-off for second place. The next year a fall cost him a possible third place run-off. Bjorn’s only poor final was his last in 1966 when he had machine trouble in two of his five races.

 

In addition to helping Sweden to 4 wins, 2 second places and a third place in the 7 World Team Cup finals he took part in, Bjorn was European Long Track Champion in 1965 (the top long track event, before the World Long Track competition started), twice European Champion, twice Nordic Champion and twice Swedish Champion.

 

When the British League was formed in 1965 it was decided that commuting Swedish riders would no longer be required. But for this decision perhaps Bjorn would have continued his speedway career for several years. Instead, by 1966 he was developing business interests and I recall there was talk about him having an interest in car racing. I think I once read that he operated a successful car dealership.

 

If Bjorn had continued racing for another few years, with the same level of commitment, I am sure that he would have been a genuine world title contender for at least the next 6 years. Having seen Ivan Mauger and Ole Olsen in many meetings during those years I am convinced that they would have found Knutson at his best extremely difficult to match.

[norbold]

I am not saying he was either better or worse than Olsen, but looking back on Olsens record he was more inconsistent than a lot of the genuine greats like Fundin, Briggs and Mauger. I think Olsen was another one that suffered from nerves a bit, especially in the early years although he seems to have conquered them later on. All down to opinions of course.

 

Still no answer to why Knutsson retired at such a young age though. Based on something he said in an interview I read years ago I think it might have been that he had had a good run free from injury ( only a broken arm in 10'years) , and decided he had won every honour the sport had to offer and decided to quit while he was still in good shape rather than tempting fate. I could be wrong but that was just my hunch. I wonder if Norbold can throw any light on this ?

Sorry, only just seen the last bit. I don't really know, but I think you are right, E I. He just wanted to get out at the top. I think he maybe had lost some appetite for the sport and felt it was the right time to go before he was struck by any serious injuries.

[Sidney the robin]

As someone who saw Knutson every week at West Ham in 1964 I don't think that's stretching it at all. He was definitely up there with the best of all time. Remember he was one of the "Big Five", handicapped on a par with Fundin, Briggs, Craven and Moore and quite rightly so. In addition, he was quite a bit younger than the other four and had many years at the top ahead of him had he chosen to continue. I agree that he almost certainly would have won more World titles had he not retired early and it is probably the fact he only had one win to his name that he is somewhat forgotten compared to the others.

Knutsson certainly was FORGOTTEN i would say with Lee and others the best to have won only one title."norbold" do you think Olsen is sometimes forgotten when mentioned with the greats.? I do Olsen was certainly one of the best riders i ever saw ride in my top 10 even a top 5 a great rider who had an awesome riding style.

[norbold]

Knutsson certainly was FORGOTTEN i would say with Lee and others the best to have won only one title."norbold" do you think Olsen is sometimes forgotten when mentioned with the greats.? I do Olsen was certainly one of the best riders i ever saw ride in my top 10 even a top 5 a great rider who had an awesome riding style.

I don't know that you could say Olsen is forgotten exactly. I think he suffers a bit when looking back through being of the same era as Mauger. My opinion at the time was that Mauger was more consistent than Olsen but that if they both rode at their peak, then Olsen was the better rider. I don't know if that's true or not, it's just how I summed them up at the time.

What we haven't discussed though is whether Lord Rosebery would have beaten Gladstone at the peak of their careers.....

Edited December 29, 2016 by norbold

[Sidney the robin]

I don't know that you could say Olsen is forgotten exactly. I think he suffers a bit when looking back through being of the same era as Mauger. My opinion at the time was that Mauger was more consistent than Olsen but that if they both rode at their peak, then Olsen was the better rider. I don't know if that's true or not, it's just how I summed them up at the time.What we haven't discussed though is whether Lord Roseberry would have beaten Gladstone at the peak of their careers.....

Yes for me "norbold" was Mauger just the better rider in Longevity at World class level?.Mauger was a icon took over from Moore/ Briggo god he was good you expected him to clean up most meeting's.Olsen he was so different very good from the back Olsen for me is one of the few riders i could put alongside Ivan a high accolade.😀 Edited December 29, 2016 by Sidney the robin

[iris123]

Ivan for me was the yardstick that you measured the others against.He was superb,even though i wasn't a great fan.I'd want some of the others to beat him,although often that was a forelorn hope.Olsen,Michanek and Collins then Lee.They all had their day,but they just weren't at the level Ivan was for as long.Olsen was the pioneer,but suffers a bit because he was imo surpassed by Gundersen and Nielsen

[BOBBATH]

Interestingly in the 5 World Finals in which Fundin met Knutsson- BK beat Fundin 3 of those times(-one of the two he lost was when he fell trying to overtake Ove)-don't know what that signifies if anything!! In answer to Norbold I would have to give the nod to Gladstone over Rosebery. At his peak Gladstone was superfit. One of his hobbies( apart-ahem- from saving young girls from sin) was cutting down trees on his estate at Hawarden, he also had super self confidence since he knew God was on his side. Now if you matched him up against Disraeli there could be a different outcome. Disraeli had a super smooth style and was good on slippery tracks-he was also a better gater!!!

[Sidney the robin]

Ivan for me was the yardstick that you measured the others against.He was superb,even though i wasn't a great fan.I'd want some of the others to beat him,although often that was a forelorn hope.Olsen,Michanek and Collins then Lee.They all had their day,but they just weren't at the level Ivan was for as long.Olsen was the pioneer,but suffers a bit because he was imo surpassed by Gundersen and Nielsen

But i would put Olsen higher than both because of the level of rider they all faced in there PRIME.

Nielsen was a rider i never liked but grew to respect but after the demise of Penhall,Lee,Carter,Sigalos,Sanders,things fell into place for him apart from a handfull of riders he had an easy time Erik often being is achilles heel.Not damning Hans but if all those riders had not of been lost to the sport no way would he of won four titles.

[iris123]

I am not so sure.I mean in the 1978 final,i wouldn't say Ole had to face that great a line up.Anders, Ivan and Lee didn't have a great night.Even 1975 was a bit spoilt by the track.I would say the finals in 1977 and 1981 were better and he showed he was a top rider in those up against top riders.

 

I would say that in the other era,Gundersen,Nielsen,Jan.O.Pedersen,Ermolenko,Per Jonsson and Jimmy Nilsen were all quality.It wasn't easy to win

[Sidney the robin]

I am not so sure.I mean in the 1978 final,i wouldn't say Ole had to face that great a line up.Anders, Ivan and Lee didn't have a great night.Even 1975 was a bit spoilt by the track.I would say the finals in 1977 and 1981 were better and he showed he was a top rider in those up against top riders.

 

I would say that in the other era,Gundersen,Nielsen,Jan.O.Pedersen,Ermolenko,Per Jonsson and Jimmy Nilsen were all quality.It wasn't easy to win

 

But Ole had to fight to get where he was like Ivan it was not all plain sailing at the start and he earned his dues.Nielsen for me would he have mastered a Penhall/Lee, if they had stayed around he hadnt before they left the sport .Also Erik had his number to,nothing against Hans a great great rider and if anything he SHOULD of won more title's.But Penhall,Lee,Carter,Sigalos,Sanders all real talents leaving the sport in the same period really opened it up for Hans/Erik. Edited December 29, 2016 by Sidney the robin

[iris123]

But Ole had to fight to get where he was like Ivan it was not all plain sailing at the start and he earned his dues.Nielsen for me would he have mastered a Penhall/Lee, if they had stayed around he hadnt before they left the sport .Also Erik had his number to,nothing against Hans a great great rider and if anything he SHOULD of won more title's.But Penhall,Lee,Carter,Sigalos,Sanders all real talents leaving the sport in the same period really opened it up for Hans/Erik.

It is all theoretical of course and i agree in a way with what you are saying.Lot of top riders left the sport around the same time for one reason or another

 

But,i would say like Knutson,Penhall,Lee and Carter didn't have the head for the sport any more.If they had of continued i don't think they would have have maintained the top form.I mean Lee did carry on and was never really the same,because of his mental failings.As for Sigalos and Sanders,it is hard to say,but i was never convinced Sanders was really a top top rider.On the other hand there were those i mentioned plus Knudsen,Tatum etc who were decent,if not as good as Sanders also around at the time of Hans and Erik

 

Imo you can say "what if" with riders who had an injury or tragic accident.Riders like Farndon,Jansson,Ward,but i don't believe that is the case with riders like Crutcher,Knutson,Lee,Penhall,as it was their mentality that stopped them carrying on or reaching the top for longer in Lees case.If their mentality changed then they would be a different person......

Edited December 29, 2016 by iris123