When Did Uk Speedway Decline Start?

[Fourentee]

 

 

A whoopsie there: it must have been my automatic spell check after I posted. It should read an interesting post. I WILL EDIT the original Post. Red face for me!

Ah, the old "automatic spell check after I posted" routine!

[Guest]

If you want to 'move away from the gloom' on this thread, take a look at something more upbeat at

And The Good News Is,

 

A whoopsie there: it must have been my automatic spell check after I posted. It should read an interesting point. I WILL EDIT the original Post. Red face for me!

 

 

Ah, the old "automatic spell check after I posted" routine!

 

​Why Fourentee? Have you not got this 'automatic spellcheck' facility? Of course, I should also read Posts to see all is well with them before sending. But when one is in a hurry....!

[New Science]

 

The problem is not that doubling up exists but that it is too widespread. Allowing a rider to ride in two leagues will almost certainly benefit him, both teams and indeed British Speedway but it can't be that you have three or even four riders riding for the same club doing it. That is when the ridiculous situation we have now occurs, and a meeting without a facility of some kind is exceptional.

 

As to Max Clegg, you'd have to be over 30 to regard Cradley & Wolverhampton as deadly rivals because I doubt that they have ridden against each other in an official fixture for 20 years. Moreover, a rider doubling up between two such clubs is hardly unheard of simply because of their geographical location. I can certainly recall Andy Galvin of Hackney being named as Wimbledon's no 8 in 1984 and Bruce Cribb doubling up between Birmingham & Wolverhampton in 1981.

 

If memory serves me correctly, that issue has been addressed in that no rider competing in the play offs can guest for another team also in the play offs. It is difficult to accept as valid a criticism of current speedway when that is from the past and no longer applies.

 

Completely agree

 

There's no question that crap racing will drive people away but I don't think that silencers are a major reason for that. I saw fantastic racing at the likes of Lakeside, Belle Vue, Workington, Scunthorpe, Peterborough & Isle of Wight last season, tracks that are all over the country and are at every level. If they can do it, so can everyone else.

 

My guess is you are a Sheffield fan. If so, you have every reason to be unhappy - a terrific track ruined by disastrous preparation.

No don't watch my speedway at Sheffield , I watch it at Monmore Green Wolverhampton home of the Elite league winners. 5 years ago I would argue with anyone that I was lucky enough to watch some of the best speedway anywhere to be seen in Britain. Sadly since 2011 this is now not the case and the speedway I watch now varies between average and plain dull, its a crying shame. Not the fault of the promotion or track curator but simply with our track being smaller than most , with throttle control vital, speedway bikes with the new silencers don't suit our track anymore, the difference between pre 2011 and now is stark. Along with this has seen a visible fall in the weekly attendance, although when this was pointed out to CVS at a talk in he disputed it, or in reality just chose to ignore it. There used to be a large group of us who stood together 10 + , this is now down to 3 most weeks with many of those who don't come anymore choosing not to attend because the racing is poor, Add in the morgue like atmosphere at most home matches ( it never used to be like that ) and you have a sport at its lowest ebb yet.

The BSPA can re brand it all they want, there will still be rider unavailability , still be numerous guests, rider replacement, depleted line ups etc, but just a further watering down of the product and if they think promotion / relegation is the answer that's a joke its never worked and sides will contrive results to ride where they are comfortable if its needed.

[steve roberts]

No don't watch my speedway at Sheffield , I watch it at Monmore Green Wolverhampton home of the Elite league winners. 5 years ago I would argue with anyone that I was lucky enough to watch some of the best speedway anywhere to be seen in Britain. Sadly since 2011 this is now not the case and the speedway I watch now varies between average and plain dull, its a crying shame. Not the fault of the promotion or track curator but simply with our track being smaller than most , with throttle control vital, speedway bikes with the new silencers don't suit our track anymore, the difference between pre 2011 and now is stark. Along with this has seen a visible fall in the weekly attendance, although when this was pointed out to CVS at a talk in he disputed it, or in reality just chose to ignore it. There used to be a large group of us who stood together 10 + , this is now down to 3 most weeks with many of those who don't come anymore choosing not to attend because the racing is poor, Add in the morgue like atmosphere at most home matches ( it never used to be like that ) and you have a sport at its lowest ebb yet.

The BSPA can re brand it all they want, there will still be rider unavailability , still be numerous guests, rider replacement, depleted line ups etc, but just a further watering down of the product and if they think promotion / relegation is the answer that's a joke its never worked and sides will contrive results to ride where they are comfortable if its needed.

Have to agree with the Wolves track. I used to go often and I have to say that the track was one of my least favourites...too long straights for the tight bends (Kirky Lane was similar) and with bikes becoming more powerful and highly tuned it became too much of a trick track (although I'm an advocate of technical circuits that require skill rather than just speed).

 

I experienced the same at Oxford whereby a large group of regulars who I got to know used to stand on the third bend. This diminished with each passing year and became just a smattering when I finally stopped going.

Edited December 29, 2016 by steve roberts

[waytogo28]

Whilst all the hard work on 'saving' Leicester and Belle Vue by Buster Chapman and others is to be applauded but I have yet to see any comment on addressing the real concerns of fans still on the terraces. Much better speeded up presentation and an awareness of what they are selling when the open the turnstiles ( i.e. how interesting is it to watch even for the diehard fans ). All to often we have heard the BSPA say " let's stop the negativity" - when what they seem to mean is " no critical feedback please, all is well" . Rosy tinted glasses at least. All is not well! Fans have left for several reasons and will continue to walk away if their concerns are not listened to and addressed where possible. There is a difference between feedback and complaints and even if a complaint has a kernel of truth in it, it can provide useful insight if insight is what promoters are seeking.

[moxey63]

Speedway's demise seems mirrored with the Christmas viewing figures from Coronation Street and Eastenders, which attracted just seven million viewers. Not long ago they would get over double that. Perhaps there is just more to do nowadays.

[MattJ81]

but in the main top flight football is corporate venture driven by the media and there are many ex fans who say the same as speedway fans do , but one big difference is when they play for a club they are the club and they are not swanning off to play for another team

a perfect example of this is max clegg , last season he rode for wolves and Cradley , now for any fan of either team , you either ride for Cradley OR wolves not both but the club ethos has been diluted so much this is accepted , well it shouldn't be accepted if you are in a team sport , it's wrong on all levels and makes the sport a joke and then we wonder why nobody follows team speedway in great numbers anymore

 

 

This is a post from a personal point of view and not really general but , I was born in Wolverhampton and grew up a wolves fan ,speedway was wolves are far I was concerned , I never missed a match and the riders were my hero's , now when I became a rider obviously my perspective changed a little , after I finished riding and became a fan again the sport had changed and doubling up had taken hold and I now find it hard to be a wolves fan as the riders are all over the place riding for their other teams and it doesn't bother me if I miss a match or if wolves lose , this is not because of bikes or racing or price (even thought I think this is a major issue overall) it simply cause the team aspect of the sport has been diluted to the point where it's like a school footy game where one side picks a player then the other picks one , as I said in an earlier post the max clegg situation last year , this is not against max personally but how can I support a rider who also rides for our deadliest rivals , it's bizzare at best yet the modern speedway has made it so ,it goes against the whole point of team sport , it makes me not want to support my team and not bothered about going

 

 

despite not being in direct competition for 20 odd years the rival is still there , the difference between this rivalry and others is we are not seperated by a motorway or a county we live in the same place , we share a track but won't go to each other's meetings , they still call us dog heads and renamed our track monmore wood , we still call them spoons and think they are unwelcome squatters , that rivalry will never die and both supporters crave the day the proper Dudley wolves trophy returns , is rhis neck of the woods nothing else mattered , I agree the younger generation don't understand but they would if Cradley ever got a new track , the Cradley wolves rivalry is deeper than just 2 teams

 

Would broadly agree with all of this Dean, although obviously from a Cradley perspective, hence the avatar!

I made a comment when Max and Nathan signed for Wolves that we have effectively become the feeder club which is a shame for those who remember what we were, but as we stand it is as good as we can have until/unless land is found (I would agree that Dudley Council isn't in the least bit interested, perhaps Sandwell could be persuaded I don't know).

 

Having said all of that I attended more meetings last season than I have for years. We have been to Cardiff for the last 2 years after 10 years of being away. I can only think the reason for this is that my kids are now of an age where they appreciate the sport (well 2 of the 3 appreciate the sport, the other mainly attends for the social side and the ice creams!), and none are old enough to decide that they don't fancy it! This is based around the club though rather than anything else, they have something similar to what Dean mentions above with an affinity to Cradley. National League is perhaps closest to how things used to be rider wise, being accessible and in most cases not riding for other clubs and some forming a strong bond by riding for a club for a few years. I have a few relatives who attend now who had been lost before, certainly since Dudley Wood closed anyway and I have no doubt that Cradley could thrive In our own stadium, should the miracle come to fruition!

 

I too long for the Dudley Wolves Trophy days, there is a video online that I think was posted by Steve Evans of a couple of races from a meeting at Monmore - fantastic to see the placed packed (when you could stand further round too!) and loud. I think I'm always looking for something close to that, the meetings we had at home against Eastbourne and Birmingham at the end of the season I kind of enjoyed, as much as you can when you lose but there were loud away fans in and around us which at least gave me something to moan at and argue with! Not that you could recreate anything like those meetings as we stand, but we can live in hope eh?

[Halifaxtiger]

despite not being in direct competition for 20 odd years the rival is still there , the difference between this rivalry and others is we are not seperated by a motorway or a county we live in the same place , we share a track but won't go to each other's meetings , they still call us dog heads and renamed our track monmore wood , we still call them spoons and think they are unwelcome squatters , that rivalry will never die and both supporters crave the day the proper Dudley wolves trophy returns , is rhis neck of the woods nothing else mattered , I agree the younger generation don't understand but they would if Cradley ever got a new track , the Cradley wolves rivalry is deeper than just 2 teams

 

I just don't understand how your deadliest rivals can be a team that you never race against.

 

You could easily be accused of living in the past here, because that rivalry hasn't existed for 20 years and for much of the time since hasn't existed at all. We simply can't do that and must look to the future and, indeed, the present.

 

Should Cradley ever get their own track - or just ride in the same league - then I would accept your view entirely but not as it stands now.

No don't watch my speedway at Sheffield , I watch it at Monmore Green Wolverhampton home of the Elite league winners. 5 years ago I would argue with anyone that I was lucky enough to watch some of the best speedway anywhere to be seen in Britain. Sadly since 2011 this is now not the case and the speedway I watch now varies between average and plain dull, its a crying shame. Not the fault of the promotion or track curator but simply with our track being smaller than most , with throttle control vital, speedway bikes with the new silencers don't suit our track anymore, the difference between pre 2011 and now is stark. Along with this has seen a visible fall in the weekly attendance, although when this was pointed out to CVS at a talk in he disputed it, or in reality just chose to ignore it. There used to be a large group of us who stood together 10 + , this is now down to 3 most weeks with many of those who don't come anymore choosing not to attend because the racing is poor, Add in the morgue like atmosphere at most home matches ( it never used to be like that ) and you have a sport at its lowest ebb yet.

The BSPA can re brand it all they want, there will still be rider unavailability , still be numerous guests, rider replacement, depleted line ups etc, but just a further watering down of the product and if they think promotion / relegation is the answer that's a joke its never worked and sides will contrive results to ride where they are comfortable if its needed.

 

Monmore Green is a track that I visit rarely but I have seen some very good racing there. I did attend a Cradley v Belle Vue meeting in 2016 and though it was pretty good - enough for me to consider that Cradley was the best NL track in 2016 for racing, anyway.

 

With the exception of 2016, I haven't seen the standard of racing fall at Plymouth, which is the smallest track in the UK. Nor have I noticed it at Newcastle, which has long straights and very tight turns, or Edinburgh which is similar to Wolverhampton. Its why I can't accept that silencers have made a marked (or any) difference.

 

As to your final point, I completely agree about promotion and relegation - its a gimmick and an utterly unconvincing one. To suggest that Edinburgh would join an almost totally southern based league is nonsense and we all know it. I also agree about the guests and have made the point that while I agree with doubling up it has got ridiculously out of hand, to the extent that meetings with 'true' teams are the exception.

 

As to watering down, I have some sympathy with the BSPA. The one thing that simply can't happen is that nothing changes, because the sport cannot afford its current expenditure. We could try recruiting the big names, but that would be a massive financial gamble. As such, it seems to me that there has to be an acceptance that the riders on track will not be the world class names any more.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

 

I just don't understand how your deadliest rivals can be a team that you never race against.

 

You could easily be accused of living in the past here, because that rivalry hasn't existed for 20 years and for much of the time since hasn't existed at all. We simply can't do that and must look to the future and, indeed, the present.

 

Should Cradley ever get their own track - or just ride in the same league - then I would accept your view entirely but not as it stands

maybe rivals is not the right word as we don't race each other but the Cradley wolves thing is like no other , Cradley have a team and it has its own supporters who won't go to watch wolves and wolves fans won't go to watch Cradley they are 2 almost completely different sets of supporters but we all live in the same area , they are not the same fans who attend both ,I have Cradley suppprters who live in the same street as me , anyone who doesn't come from this neck of the woods will never quite get the dislike of each other that exists even today , maybe I am living in the past but to me speedway will never be the same until Cradley get their own track and the Dudley wolves throphy is back , I always said to ride in one was the best thing I ever did in my career and when I guested once for a Cradley team my friends & family didn't speak to me for a month (the last bit was a joke ) it was a year

[arnieg]

I'm thinking of turning this thread into a book!

 

anyone for

Gibbon's - The History of the Decline and Fall of the Speedway Empire

 

:D

[longlivefrankie]

Just watched "time of your lives" on sky again with lee, havelock & loram some interesting comments re speedways decline on there

Especially re team riding

 

Edited before a political debate starts

Edited December 31, 2016 by Ken Morgan

[The White Knight]

Just watched "time of your lives" on sky again with lee, havelock & loram some interesting comments re speedways decline on there

Especially red team riding

Was that about the Russians?

[pugwash]

I'm thinking of turning this thread into a book!

 

anyone for

Gibbon's - The History of the Decline and Fall of the Speedway Empire

 

:D

With a forward by gustix.

[davidncohen]

 

I like the phrase '...the social aspect of the sport disappeared...' Can you enlarge on the definition please - I think we have an important factor here.

 

This from LittleThumper is akin to the previous comment by THE DEAN MACHINE. Is it boring down basically to this "...because speedway ignores the views of its paying supporters..."?

 

I think this is quite key. You need to be very customer focused (not 'organisation' i.e. BSPA, SCB focused) and ask the question:

 

"What matters (to the customer)?"

I think it'd be interesting to debate what realistic (!?) changes could help the sport. My own thoughts on this are:

 

1. Get the GP to Wembley. It'll raise the sports profile in so many ways, it would be THE prestige fixture too. It may also act as a catalyst for Speedway revival in London or the South East.

 

Just focusing on one aspect - It would be interesting to see the impact of a London GP (doesn't have to be Wembley), but then what happens with the follow up where the youngster turns to their parents and says "can we go and watch some weekly league racing"?

 

Also, there _might_ be an impact on Cardiff - People might choose one or the other, as going to a GP can be costly of you travel far / have a family etc.

 

Poland is a good example of having more than one GP in the country, but of course, the speedway landscape is different there in terms of popularity.

 

Overall, an interesting thread and certainly not the first (and won't be the last) time that someone has asked the question "Where did it all go wrong"? It's probably a combination of factors.

 

A lot of water has passed under the bridge since the 70's and 80's boom periods - A generation of the public probably don't even know what speedway is, and that is a hard place to recover from.

[waytogo28]

Promoters and all those who wish to build up the fan base of speedway again, need to go back to basics in many ways. Everyone within, say, 10 miles needs to have a pre-season leaflet with an offer of a free ticket during the first month OR an "in for a fiver" coupon - as a taster. You don't know what you're missing etc. And as much that can be done via social media too. Plus a reminder that they can get a preview of the thrills of speedway via You tube. Until prospective new fans get to see it and understand what it is, they will not come to a meeting. All the re-branding in the world will not, on it's own bring them in. Every takeaway, chip shop etc needs a fixture list on a poster as it was done years ago.

[The White Knight]

Promoters and all those who wish to build up the fan base of speedway again, need to go back to basics in many ways. Everyone within, say, 10 miles needs to have a pre-season leaflet with an offer of a free ticket during the first month OR an "in for a fiver" coupon - as a taster. You don't know what you're missing etc. And as much that can be done via social media too. Plus a reminder that they can get a preview of the thrills of speedway via You tube. Until prospective new fans get to see it and understand what it is, they will not come to a meeting. All the re-branding in the world will not, on it's own bring them in. Every takeaway, chip shop etc needs a fixture list on a poster as it was done years ago.

Are those who run Speedway in this Country familiar with the advantages that Social Media can bring to the Sport? However, perhaps more importantly, do they know how to actually use and apply Social Media to it's best effect in the interests of British Speedway?

 

These are genuine questions - I am not having a go here.

[Guest]

Are those who run Speedway in this Country familiar with the advantages that Social Media can bring to the Sport? However, perhaps more importantly, do they know how to actually use and apply Social Media to it's best effect in the interests of British Speedway?

 

These are genuine questions - I am not having a go here.

 

Quite a few clubs do have forums on both Facebook and Twitter, while there are many independent groups on both that cater for speedway. The SGB/BSPA website can also be raised via Twtter on Social Media.

Edited January 1, 2017 by Guest

[The White Knight]

 

Quite a few clubs do have forums on both Facebook and Twitter, while there are many independent groups on both that cater for speedway. The SGB/BSPA website can also be raised via Twtter on Social Media.

I was thinking more of the ability to be able to publicise the Sport as a better product and getting the word out there that Speedway is an exciting and very dangerous Sport. Whether this can be done through Social Media - I don't know......................................?

[Shale Searcher]

Promoters and all those who wish to build up the fan base of speedway again, need to go back to basics in many ways. Everyone within, say, 10 miles needs to have a pre-season leaflet with an offer of a free ticket during the first month OR an "in for a fiver" coupon - as a taster. You don't know what you're missing etc. And as much that can be done via social media too. Plus a reminder that they can get a preview of the thrills of speedway via You tube. Until prospective new fans get to see it and understand what it is, they will not come to a meeting. All the re-branding in the world will not, on it's own bring them in. Every takeaway, chip shop etc needs a fixture list on a poster as it was done years ago.

 

 

 

You know, perhaps the promotors don't have faith in their product either? And posting tasters through 30,000 letterboxes, may bring in another 100 to 300 newbies, but for one time only, because the product is not good... And those 100-300 are lost forever. Promotors are scared to promote outside of their "small" base of regular die-hards and their friends and family....

 

Just a thought.......

[moxey63]

Just been thinking, back the the glorious seventies and the years they did the Daily Mirror Grand Prix at every track, in which riders rode in the same amount of meetings at each British League track in a series of qualifying meetings. I remember them fondly.

 

It isn't the rehash of these meetings that will help inflate speedway's (British speedway) leaky tyre... it is that they could be held back then, without the requirement of finding what rider would actually be in the country and not riding in Poland, Sweden or even Denmark. They were simple days... and I'm not harking back with those rose-tinted specs I got a few Christmas Days ago. British speedway must focus on employing riders only willing to assure they are here for every match... and hastily re-arranged ones. In other words, willing to commit to Britain. Full stop.

Edited January 1, 2017 by moxey63