steve roberts Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) With regard to the number of teams, It will be survival of the fittest that sorts that problem, I believe. Reducing the number of riders in a team is a decision that needs to be made now. Wasn't the number of riders per team reduced during the late nineties and lasted only a couple of seasons? I've lost track the number of times speedway mucks about with the number of riders per team (6, 7 & 8) certainly within my speedway life time. Also the number of heat variations down the same number of years (13, 15, 16 & 18). Even a six lap race was introduced to try and bolster interest! Do other sports change such fundamental basics as often as speedway as regards number of players per team and the length of the match/meeting? No wonder the great, late, Bernard Crapper stated that he no longer understood the rules when he stepped aside from management duties. Edited January 7, 2017 by steve roberts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Thumper Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 Wasn't the number of riders per team reduced during the late nineties and lasted only a couple of seasons? I've lost track the number of times speedway mucks about with the number of riders per team (6, 7 & 8) certainly within my speedway life time. Also the number of heat variations down the same number of years (13, 15, 16 & 18). Even a six lap race was introduced to try and bolster interest! Do other sports change such fundamental basics as often as speedway as regards number of players per team and the length of the match/meeting? No wonder the great, late, Bernard Crapper stated that he no longer understood the rules when he stepped aside from management duties. You want to come to Buxton. Sometimes they have unknown distance races! Surely it there are not enough riders and the sport cannot financially support the number of teams that are currently running, then something has to change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 That would be the logical answer - however - I cannot see anyone wanting their Track to close in order to help other Teams staff theirs. I know I wouldn't if it affected me. I don't think it will happen like that. Too many tracks aren't viable and the crunch has to come, then there will be less clubs, whatever anyone thinks about it. All this struggle to get several prominent clubs to the tapes for the coming season is extremely bad publicity and will be driving potential fans away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillwhitewasmad Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 How about six man teams no doubling up down left or right. Then start year one with a 45 point limit and the following year all teams can build to the points limit the champions achieved. All riders get 5 rides no long term guests or rr for injured riders 10 days only as that facility. If a rider is injured during a meeting his rides can be taken by a team mate who has the same or lower average as the oppositions top averaged rider in the heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 (edited) Riders racing for more than one club is still the "BIG" killer in my mind.. I try and not talk about this element when discussing my sport with friends that are not speedway fans (this happens frequently, as I am quite involved in speedway, on a voluntary basis) so having days off work (hols) occasionally leaving early (weeknight meetings) speedway is frequently involved in my conversations..... Explaining we didn't have one or two of our riders last night, due to the fact they were (playing) for another team, and quite likely, the riders we borrowed from another team or two, just doesn't make sense to them, does not go down well, or sit right with them as fans of other team sports.. Why do you put up with it? I'm asked... That's just how they earn their money, racing for "other" teams as well as my team!! Until riders ride for just one team, I doubt it will ever recover and/or become media food.. Edited February 7, 2017 by Shale Searcher 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 Riders racing for more than one club is still the "BIG" killer in my mind.. I try and not talk about this element when discussing my sport with friends that are not speedway fans (this happens frequently, as I am quite involved in speedway, on a voluntary basis) so having days off work (hols) occasionally leaving early (weeknight meetings) speedway is frequently involved in my conversations..... Explaining we didn't have one or two of our riders last night, due to the fact they were (playing) for another team, and quite likely, the riders we borrowed from another team or two, just doesn't make sense to them, does not go down well, or sit right with them as fans of other team sports.. Why do you put up with it? I'm asked... That's just how they earn their money, racing for "other" teams as well as my team!! Until riders ride for just one team, I doubt it will ever recover and/or become media food.. Until we get enough young Brits to take those team places, we are either talking about DU's or even more foreign riders. Got to be done but it takes time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 (edited) Until we get enough young Brits to take those team places, we are either talking about DU's or even more foreign riders. Got to be done but it takes time. i personally believe there are sufficient in the NL who are not wobblers and could be used. It does mean weakening the 2nd tier and severely restricting doubling but i believe thats the way forward. I understand 2nd tier fans enjoy Cook, King, etc but they have to pick one league in this country for me for the sake of credibility i also believe 6 man teams could work Edited February 7, 2017 by ch958 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 i personally believe there are sufficient in the NL who are not wobblers and could be used. It does mean weakening the 2nd tier and severely restricting doubling but i believe thats the way forward. I understand 2nd tier fans enjoy Cook, King, etc but they have to pick one league in this country for me for the sake of credibility i also believe 6 man teams could work Yes, there is some good ones coming in, but we need more before we become self sufficient without lower grade foreigners to make up our leagues. Can't agree about the 6 man teams after what we discovered when we had them in 1997. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 (edited) Until we get enough young Brits to take those team places, we are either talking about DU's or even more foreign riders. Got to be done but it takes time. Even get ribbed ....... Who's in your team tonight!! That apart, how will riders manage with only one team? Surely that would be halving their earnings? Just wondering.....? Edited February 7, 2017 by Shale Searcher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 Yes, there is some good ones coming in, but we need more before we become self sufficient without lower grade foreigners to make up our leagues. Can't agree about the 6 man teams after what we discovered when we had them in 1997. no i wouldnt want 6 man teams tbh Even get ribbed ....... Who's in your team tonight!! That apart, how will riders manage with only one team? Surely that would be halving their earnings? Just wondering.....? not to sound cruel but thats their problem - get a job maybe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 (edited) no i wouldnt want 6 man teams tbh not to sound cruel but thats their problem - get a job maybe Which is what they do, get another job doing the same work... (second job speedway riding) Do you actually mean they need to go and get a 8-4.30 job, perhaps packing biscuits? I think that's what's crawing, to bring them back down to earth, in the real world, they need to also have a job like the fans.... Or, should the lesser riders (say 2nd string and below from the 2nd division) ought to have proper jobs, and speedway be the 2ND job? Edited February 7, 2017 by Shale Searcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert72 Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Until we get enough young Brits to take those team places, we are either talking about DU's or even more foreign riders. . The reason we don't have enough Brits now is solely down to a number of promoters over the years who had an obsession with picking the poor to average Johnny Foreigner over young Brits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) The reason we don't have enough Brits now is solely down to a number of promoters over the years who had an obsession with picking the poor to average Johnny Foreigner over young Brits. I remember reading way back (may have been John Berry?) that one of the reasons why promoters began employing foreigners was because when the two leagues split (the lower league essentially being a feeder for young British talent) was because some promotions in the lower league were asking what some thought to be ridiculously high transfer fees and so it was therefore cheaper to go abroad and sign a foreigner. Of course when junior meetings were introduced in the higher league during the middle eighties this was designed to develop ones own British talent...but of course promoters realising that putting on extra heats (and many supporters deciding not to stay on and watch them) eventually saw the demise of same. I always thought that the second half was a good system to develop young (and not so young talent) but when second halves were discarded obviously this particular route ceased...so it's no good some supporters decrying the present state of British speedway and its lack of talent who on the other hand didn't bother with the second halves. But that's another story that has often been debated on hear and not wishing to go over old ground! Edited February 8, 2017 by steve roberts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Which is what they do, get another job doing the same work... (second job speedway riding) Do you actually mean they need to go and get a 8-4.30 job, perhaps packing biscuits? I think that's what's crawing, to bring them back down to earth, in the real world, they need to also have a job like the fans.... Or, should the lesser riders (say 2nd string and below from the 2nd division) ought to have proper jobs, and speedway be the 2ND job? either way i don't care - i just want credibility for the sport 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 It's worth pointing out there hasn't been a constant decline since 1930, as some seem to be suggesting. The sport was much healthier in the mid 70s than the mid 50s. In fact, there's never been as few teams as there were in 1958. Even the SAL didn't run that year. So there were just 10 league teams that year. For some reason, they needed much bigger crowds to be able to operate back then (maybe admission prices were incredibly cheap in comparison), but as you can see, speedway is in a healthier state in 2017 than it was in 1958. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 It's worth pointing out there hasn't been a constant decline since 1930, as some seem to be suggesting. The sport was much healthier in the mid 70s than the mid 50s. In fact, there's never been as few teams as there were in 1958. Even the SAL didn't run that year. So there were just 10 league teams that year. For some reason, they needed much bigger crowds to be able to operate back then (maybe admission prices were incredibly cheap in comparison), but as you can see, speedway is in a healthier state in 2017 than it was in 1958. All the best Rob For how long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 It's worth pointing out there hasn't been a constant decline since 1930, as some seem to be suggesting. The sport was much healthier in the mid 70s than the mid 50s. In fact, there's never been as few teams as there were in 1958. Even the SAL didn't run that year. So there were just 10 league teams that year. For some reason, they needed much bigger crowds to be able to operate back then (maybe admission prices were incredibly cheap in comparison), but as you can see, speedway is in a healthier state in 2017 than it was in 1958. All the best Rob However, from speedway's low point in 1958 the sport became healthier, but I think the average speedway fan, at present, can only see the sport declining further. Is the sport in a healthier state in 2017, than 2016, 2015, 2014.......in my opinion, it is worse. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 The number of teams operating in speedway is irrelevant to the decline of the sport. The only number to be compared is the number of people attending matches for each team. Do statistics exist comparing crowd levels from 1958 to 2016? That figure is the only one you can use to work out a decline of any kind. One look around the terraces of the team I support over the last three years says it all locally. Much bigger gaps and lots of empty areas around the stadium. Because speedway promoters do not publish attendance figures, we can only judge visually. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skid Sprocket Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 The number of teams operating in speedway is irrelevant to the decline of the sport. The only number to be compared is the number of people attending matches for each team. Do statistics exist comparing crowd levels from 1958 to 2016? That figure is the only one you can use to work out a decline of any kind. One look around the terraces of the team I support over the last three years says it all locally. Much bigger gaps and lots of empty areas around the stadium. Because speedway promoters do not publish attendance figures, we can only judge visually. The two age old questions. What are the attendance figures? and why won't clubs disclose figures? Its often said that its some kind of tax dodge but I cant believe that, even if were true then why cant we be given the figures the taxman gets and then we can make our own mind up. How about some investigative journalism from the Speedway Star? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 The two age old questions. What are the attendance figures? and why won't clubs disclose figures? Its often said that its some kind of tax dodge but I cant believe that, even if were true then why cant we be given the figures the taxman gets and then we can make our own mind up. How about some investigative journalism from the Speedway Star? I recall that the Speedway Star used to publish attendance figures from both the Swedish and Polish Leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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