The Greatest Riders

[bruno]

Thanks for that gustix

[Guest]

I agree with that. It would have been a big surprise if Persson had won and he would probably be ranked quite low in the all-time list of World Champions, but I don't think it would have been seen as anything like as big a shock as Jerzy S winning it. Persson was a good rider and could beat the best on his day.

 

 

 

1972 Wembley - Ivan Mauger v Bernt Persson World Championship run-off:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16WLb7Znpb8

 

 

Thanks for that gustix

 

It's amazing the amount of interest the 1972 World Final run-off between Ivan Mauger and Bernt Persson has generated, but I agree it is all most interesting.

[The White Knight]

Ivan Mauger totally out psyched Persson at the Gate. He beat him even before the Tapes went up - Ivan was tha Master of starting gate tactics.

 

I'm glad Ivan won. I wasn't a great fan of the Great Man but I was really pleased that Persson didn't win after what he did to Briggo.

[Sidney the robin]

Ivan Mauger totally out psyched Persson at the Gate. He beat him even before the Tapes went up - Ivan was tha Master of starting gate tactics.

 

I'm glad Ivan won. I wasn't a great fan of the Great Man but I was really pleased that Persson didn't win after what he did to Briggo.

I have often thought that even though Ivan was the master of psyching people out at the gate he was such a good gater.For me he would of coped easily with the new tape rule now in my memory i can never remember Ivan ever rearing at the start the best gater along with Bob Kilby that i have seen live.

[steve roberts]

I have often thought that even though Ivan was the master of psyching people out at the gate he was such a good gater.For me he would of coped easily with the new tape rule now in my memory i can never remember Ivan ever rearing at the start the best gater along with Bob Kilby that i have seen live.

Ivan has often been quoted that he would have mastered any starting procedure. He rode for years on the continent when a no touching rule was in place and made most of his starts (years before the regulation was imposed in Britain). Which rider had most difficulty in coping with the then new ruling? Probably Erik Gundersen. The best gaters are those who invariably keep their front wheels on the ground and, as you say, Bob Kilby was one of the best!

Edited December 17, 2016 by steve roberts

[waiheke1]

Without a doubt eric I would say, though he was eventually fine after taking a year to adapt

[Guest]

Here is an advance warning! I have compiled a new list of riders for the 1949-68 as shown in message 37, based on comments made by fellow BSF members and mown revised opinions.

It shows not only revised placings but also sees new inclusions to replace Alan Hunt, Arthur Forrest, Graham Warren, Dick Bradley, Geoff Mardon and Ron Johnston.

And I promise - no matter what opinions may be made by BSF colleagues or myself on further thinking in regard to my new list, I will NOT make a second revised list.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Guest

[Midland Red]

1972 Wembley - Ivan Mauger v Bernt Persson World Championship run-off:

Wonderful to see black leathers, race bibs, helmet colours - and no gardening at the tapes

[Sidney the robin]

Wonderful to see black leathers, race bibs, helmet colours - and no gardening at the tapes

Loved the old leathers Red, also loved the Red,Blue,White,Yellow/Black helmet colours.😅

[mickthemuppet]

 

Thank you everyone who has contributed. There are some fascinating lists but sadly not composing within the tabulation that I thought provided the main strategic speedway eras. Under that structure I was hoping to compose fuller tables for these eras based on BSF member lists. I have no doubt that I can still use lists already provided and provide eventually a grand finale of what has been posted by members. Please see the quote in regard to what I have suggested as the baseline for a 'grand final'!

 

Thank you everyone who has contributed. There are some fascinating lists but sadly not composing within the tabulation that I thought provided the main strategic speedway eras. Under that structure I was hoping to compose fuller tables for these eras based on BSF member lists. I have no doubt that I can still use lists already provided and provide eventually a grand finale of what has been posted by members. Please see the quote in regard to what I have suggested as the baseline for a 'grand final'!

 

Here is my list for the period 1928-1949:

(1) Jack Parker

(2) Lionel Van Praag

(3) Jack Milne

(4) Arthur 'Bluey' Wilkinson

(5) Eric Langton

(6) Wilbur Lamoreaux

(7) Cordy Milne

(8) Vic Huxley

(9) Bill Kitchen

(10) Tom Farndon

(11) Vic Duggan

(12) Tommy Price

(13) Ron Johnson

(14) Dickie Case

(15) Jack Ormston

(16) Frank Charles

(17) Ginger Lees

(18) Aub Lawson

(19) Harold 'Tiger' Stevenson

(20) Lloyd 'Sprouts" Elder

 

Eras to come -

1949-1968

1969-1988

1989- to present times

Very good list. Jack Parker was head and tails above anybody else in that era what with the match race wins(Parker's Pension) and world finals and the Star championship.

The Star championship was a bit of a rubbish competition It's a bit of a mystery how the riders were selected for it .Then the final like 1933 when Tom Farndon won it the were 20 riders and he never met 8 of them and it was won with 3 rides .A bit better the next year with 18 riders when Jack Parker won it but still a rubbish competition as he never met half the riders and still only had three rives.

Edited December 17, 2016 by mickthemuppet

[Guest]

::: THIS is a revised version of the list for the period 1949-68 placed previously as message 37 in this thread on December 13, 2016:

 

Here is my list for the period 1949-68:

(1) Ove Fundin
(2) Barry Briggs
(3) Jack Young
(4) Vic Duggan
(5) Ronnie Moore
(6) Peter Craven
(7) Jack Parker
(8) Tommy Price
(9) Ivan Mauger
(10) Aub Lawson
(11) Igor Plechanov
(12) Ron How
(13) Olle Nygren
(14) Bjorn Knutsson
(15) Norman Parker
(16) Wilbur Lamoreaux
(17) Sverre Harrfeldt
(18) Brian Crutcher
(19) Nigel Boocock
(20) Ken McKinlay

Eras to come -

1969-1988

1989- to present times

Edited December 17, 2016 by Guest

[mickthemuppet]

::: THIS is a revised version of the list for the period 1949-68 placed previously as message 37 in this thread on December 13, 2016:

 

Here is my list for the period 1949-68:

(1) Ove Fundin

(2) Barry Briggs

(3) Jack Young

(4) Vic Duggan

(5) Ronnie Moore

(6) Peter Craven

(7) Jack Parker

(8) Tommy Price

(9) Ivan Mauger

(10) Aub Lawson

(11) Igor Plechanov

(12) Ron How

(13) Olle Nygren

(14) Bjorn Knutsson

(15) Norman Parker

(16) Wilbur Lamoreaux

(17) Sverre Harrfeldt

(18) Brian Crutcher

(19) Nigel Boocock

(20) Ken McKinlay

Eras to come -

1969-1988

1989- to present times

How can you exclude from this list Freddie Williams a double world champion and runner up as well. Interesting that you put 4 Wembley riders above him

[The White Knight]

How can you exclude from this list Freddie Williams a double world champion and runner up as well. Interesting that you put 4 Wembley riders above him

I agree MTM - there must be a place for Freddie who was one of my heroes.

 

The List is excellent apart from that - I would have to drop McKinley or Boocock in order to fit Williams in. I would have him a lot higher up the List too - certainly in the top fifteen bearing in mind that both of his World Championships were won at Wembley, his Home Track.

[iris123]

How can you exclude from this list Freddie Williams a double world champion and runner up as well. Interesting that you put 4 Wembley riders above him

Bit strange i would say to include Lammy in 1949-1968 period when he only rode in the first year and ok he qualified for the world final,but 4 other riders finished ahead of him in that final and 3 others in the NL averages

[OveFundinFan]

1920s/1930s: Jack Milne, Bluey Wilkinson, Tom Farndon, Lionel Van Praag, Vic Huxley

1940s/1950s: Ove Fundin, Vic Duggan, Ronnie Moore, Peter Craven, Jack Young

1960s/1970s: Ivan Mauger, Barry Briggs, Ole Olsen, Peter Collins, Bjorn Knutsson

1980s/1990s: Hans Nielsen, Erik Gundersen, Bruce Penhall, Michael Lee, Jan O Pedersen

2000s/2010s: Tony Rickardsson, Jason Crump, Nicki Pedersen, Greg Hancock, Tomasz Gollob

 

All the best

Rob

Fundin won 3 of his world championships in the 1960's - cant leave him off that list

[Guest]

::: THIS is a revised version of the list for the period 1949-68 placed previously as message 37 in this thread on December 13, 2016:

 

Here is my list for the period 1949-68:

(1) Ove Fundin

(2) Barry Briggs

(3) Jack Young

(4) Vic Duggan

(5) Ronnie Moore

(6) Peter Craven

(7) Jack Parker

(8) Tommy Price

(9) Ivan Mauger

(10) Aub Lawson

(11) Igor Plechanov

(12) Ron How

(13) Olle Nygren

(14) Bjorn Knutsson

(15) Norman Parker

(16) Wilbur Lamoreaux

(17) Sverre Harrfeldt

(18) Brian Crutcher

(19) Nigel Boocock

(20) Ken McKinlay

Eras to come -

1969-1988

1989- to present times

 

 

How can you exclude from this list Freddie Williams a double world champion and runner up as well. Interesting that you put 4 Wembley riders above him

 

 

I agree MTM - there must be a place for Freddie who was one of my heroes.

 

The List is excellent apart from that - I would have to drop McKinley or Boocock in order to fit Williams in. I would have him a lot higher up the List too - certainly in the top fifteen bearing in mind that both of his World Championships were won at Wembley, his Home Track.

 

These lists are personal opinions. Mine for 1949-68 has had some approval. Freddie Williams has not been detailed by me - but I stand by the list I have place and it has met with some approval.

All I can suggest, and it's in accord with what this thread is supposed to be - members opinions - that you compose an alternative list to mine and place Freddie Williams as one of choices. Oh - and if you do that, it will give me the opportunity to ask why you have left 'somebody' off your list?

Remember, my List is just my opinion - it's not the 'be all and end all' of the matter.

Have fun!

Edited December 17, 2016 by Guest

[waiheke1]

::: THIS is a revised version of the list for the period 1949-68 placed previously as message 37 in this thread on December 13, 2016:

 

Here is my list for the period 1949-68:

(1) Ove Fundin

(2) Barry Briggs

(3) Jack Young

(4) Vic Duggan

(5) Ronnie Moore

(6) Peter Craven

(7) Jack Parker

(8) Tommy Price

(9) Ivan Mauger

(10) Aub Lawson

(11) Igor Plechanov

(12) Ron How

(13) Olle Nygren

(14) Bjorn Knutsson

(15) Norman Parker

(16) Wilbur Lamoreaux

(17) Sverre Harrfeldt

(18) Brian Crutcher

(19) Nigel Boocock

(20) Ken McKinlay

Eras to come -

1969-1988

1989- to present times

As others have said, Williams should surely be there, assume this is just an oversight.

And struggle to see why knuttson is so low - surely should be higher than say Ron How?

Otherwise looks a good list, certainly the revised top 10 seems a better reflection of the riders' achievements.

[Guest]

As others have said, Williams should surely be there, assume this is just an oversight.

And struggle to see why knuttson is so low - surely should be higher than say Ron How?

Otherwise looks a good list, certainly the revised top 10 seems a better reflection of the riders' achievements.

I suggest you compose an alternative list to mine and if you do it will give me the opportunity to ask why you have left 'somebody' off your list?

Remember, my List is just my opinion - it's not the 'be all and end all' of the matter.

Have fun!

Edited December 17, 2016 by Guest

[iris123]

As others have said, Williams should surely be there, assume this is just an oversight.

And struggle to see why knuttson is so low - surely should be higher than say Ron How?

Otherwise looks a good list, certainly the revised top 10 seems a better reflection of the riders' achievements.

As i mentioned before,i would question the inclusion of Lammy who rode 1 year over the likes of say Michanek,who qualified for a couple of world finals in that period and say Göte Nordin

 

Always hard to decide if 1 good season counts more than a few not quite so good ones.Then we could say should Claude Rye be chosen for the pre-war period as he had a pretty good league season finishing i think around 3rd in the averages and also won a world title in Paris...plus another one a year later.But i think he did beat Wilkinson one year as well as another who could be included,Billy Lamont

Edited December 17, 2016 by iris123

[waiheke1]

I suggest you compose an alternative list to mine and if you do it will give me the opportunity to ask why you have left 'somebody' off your list?

Remember, my List is just my opinion - it's not the 'be all and end all' of the matter.

Have fun!

Why so defensive? Surely the point of such lists is to debate them.

I've said I think it is generally a good list.

Surely it's valid to query the omission of a double world champ, or why one of the "big five" is so low.

My knowledge of the era is far lower than yours I'm sure, given I was born 10 years after the end of it. If you want to pull a list of mine apart, I've provided mine for the two subsequent eras. Where all you queried was which Morton I included in the era 69-88, somewhat strangely asking if it was Wal or Val?

Edited December 17, 2016 by waihekeaces1