Guest Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 (edited) Thank you for the 'taster' start Sidney the robin. A commendable effort and maybe act as a stimulant for more detailed lists. What I am actually suggesting however is - and I realise what a daunting task this is are - lists of Top 20 riders in different eras. 1928-48 1949-1968 1969-1988 1989- to present times Thank you everyone who has contributed. There are some fascinating lists but sadly not composing within the tabulation that I thought provided the main strategic speedway eras. Under that structure I was hoping to compose fuller tables for these eras based on BSF member lists. I have no doubt that I can still use lists already provided and provide eventually a grand finale of what has been posted by members. Please see the quote in regard to what I have suggested as the baseline for a 'grand final'! Thank you for the 'taster' start Sidney the robin. A commendable effort and maybe act as a stimulant for more detailed lists. What I am actually suggesting however is - and I realise what a daunting task this is are - lists of Top 20 riders in different eras. 1928-48 1949-1968 1969-1988 1989- to present times Thank you everyone who has contributed. There are some fascinating lists but sadly not composing within the tabulation that I thought provided the main strategic speedway eras. Under that structure I was hoping to compose fuller tables for these eras based on BSF member lists. I have no doubt that I can still use lists already provided and provide eventually a grand finale of what has been posted by members. Please see the quote in regard to what I have suggested as the baseline for a 'grand final'! Here is my list for the period 1928-1949: (1) Jack Parker (2) Lionel Van Praag (3) Jack Milne (4) Arthur 'Bluey' Wilkinson (5) Eric Langton (6) Wilbur Lamoreaux (7) Cordy Milne (8) Vic Huxley (9) Bill Kitchen (10) Tom Farndon (11) Vic Duggan (12) Tommy Price (13) Ron Johnson (14) Dickie Case (15) Jack Ormston (16) Frank Charles (17) Ginger Lees (18) Aub Lawson (19) Harold 'Tiger' Stevenson (20) Lloyd 'Sprouts" Elder Eras to come - 1949-1968 1969-1988 1989- to present times Edited December 15, 2016 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 No fundin in the 60s70s? Gollob ahead of woffy? I wondered that too? Even though each rider is only listed once, Fundin won ONE World Title in the 50's, and FOUR in the 60's! I would have included him in the latter... From the 40's/50's, Brian Crutcher wouldn't have been a bad replacement for Fundin, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 (edited) Sorry Gustix sure you will understand great thread,😀 my favourite and i think is my top five of all time is Fundin,Mauger,Nielsen,Briggs,Olsen, happy with that.🤓 Edited December 15, 2016 by Sidney the robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Top 20 88present T rick Nielsen Crump Hancock N pedersen Woffy Gollob Jan o Hamill Ermolenko Jonsson Loram Hampel Holder Emil Adams Ward Havelock Knudsen Doyle 69-88 Mauger Nielsen Olsen Penhall Gundersen Collins Lee Michanek Jessup Carter Briggs Simmons S moran S sjosten Jan o Sigalos Morton Sanders Knudsen B jansson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 (edited) Top 20 88present T rick Nielsen Crump Hancock N pedersen Woffy Gollob Jan o Hamill Ermolenko Jonsson Loram Hampel Holder Emil Adams Ward Havelock Knudsen Doyle 69-88 Mauger Nielsen Olsen Penhall Gundersen Collins Lee Michanek Jessup Carter Briggs Simmons S moran S sjosten Jan o Sigalos Morton Sanders Knudsen B jansson A nice lot of names...not detail how many there are please? Also, if you have a moment could you please explain further exactly what is being defined. PS: I see four names from the end a listing for Morton? Is that dear old Wal by any chance? Or the 1950s Belle Vue rider Val? Edited August 20, 2017 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 (edited) There are 20 on each list. I'm not sure what you mean what is being defined? The top 20 for the stated eras. Yes, I consider Wal Morton from the 50s to be one of the top 20 riders from 69-88? For clarity, at the risk of sparking a sid/iris debate, I consider chris better than dave. And the Collins is Peter not Stephen. Edited December 15, 2016 by waihekeaces1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 I wondered that too? Even though each rider is only listed once, Fundin won ONE World Title in the 50's, and FOUR in the 60's! I would have included him in the latter... From the 40's/50's, Brian Crutcher wouldn't have been a bad replacement for Fundin, Steve Fundin's peak years were '56 to '63, so he's on the cusp. More world titles in the 60s maybe - but, on the other hand, he was domestically at his best in the 50s. Bjorn Knutsson was a better rider than Crutcher, so I'm keeping my choices are they are. If there was another spot for 40s/50s, I think I'd plump for Graham Warren ahead of Brian Crutcher. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 (edited) Top 20 88present T rick Nielsen Crump Hancock N pedersen Woffy Gollob Jan o Hamill Ermolenko Jonsson Loram Hampel Holder Emil Adams Ward Havelock Knudsen Doyle 69-88 Mauger Nielsen Olsen Penhall Gundersen Collins Lee Michanek Jessup Carter Briggs Simmons S moran S sjosten Jan o Sigalos Morton Sanders Knudsen B jansson A nice lot of names...not detail how many there are lease? Also, if you have a moment could you please explain further exactly what is being defined. PS: I see four names from the end a listing for Morton? Is that dear old Wal by any chance? Or the 1950s Belle Vue rider Val? There are 20 on each list. I'm not sure what you mean what is being defined? The top 20 for the stated eras. Yes, I consider Wal Morton from the 50s to be one of the top 20 riders from 69-88? For clarity, at the risk of sparking a sid/iris debate, I consider chris better than dave. And the Collins is Peter not Stephen. My apologies. At the moment I am minus my spectacles after an accident. I can now see the years as you have mentioned. Also, it was kind of you to define which Morton you refer and also the first name of the person named as Collins. For a moment I thought "can that be Al Collins"? Just a small further query - why is one nomination given as a first name and not a surname? Edited December 15, 2016 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Briggs 2nd in the 60s though imo. Funding Briggs Mauger knuttson craven How much are you paying Briggo whka1? Just thought I'd inject a little humour...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 (edited) Being a Briggo fan he was never the No 1 of any of the era's the 50s,60s,70s,god it was really competitive yet he could beat anybody on any given day.) hence his four world titles and 72 could of been his to. ??😜 Edited December 15, 2016 by Sidney the robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Being a Briggo fan he was never the No 1 of any of the era's the 50s,60s,70s,god it was really competitive yet he could beat anybody on any given day.) hence his four world titles and 72 could of been his to. ?? Would have been had it not been for bloody Persson - I've never forgiven him for that. I've watched it a number of times and I still think he did for Briggo. Remember Briggo had already beaten the eventual Champion Ivan Mauger. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 A bit of a marathon i know but here are my top 20 for FOUR of my favourite era's the 60s,70s,80s, 2000s I have bound to have missed endless riders out but here we go.(no order) 60S) Briggs,Fundin,Mauger,Moore,Craven,Olsen,Knutsson,Sjosten,B.Jansson,Wilson,Nordin!Harrefeldt,Nygren,E.Boocock,N.Boocock,Plechanov,Waloszek,Broadbank,Airey,N.Hunter. 70S) Olsen,Mauger,Michanek,Collins,Lee,Louis,RayWilson,Ashby,Simmons,T.Jansson,E.Boocock,Crump,Autrey,Morton,Plech,Briggs,Sanders,Persson, Boulger, Jessup, (80S) Nielsen,Penhall,Lee,Morton,Carter,Gundersen,Sigalos,Sanders,S.Moran,K.Moran,Ermolenko,Petersen,Knudsen,Crump,Muller,L.Collins,JOPedersen,King,Jessup,Tatum, - 2000S) Crump,Rickardsson,Woffinden,Gollob,Pedersen,Hampel,Doyle,Holder,Iversen,Sayutdinov,Hancock,Adams,Loram,Hamill,Sullivan,Zmarzlik,Jonsson,Ward,Protasiewicz,Holta. Some well thought out names there Sidney the robin. Interesting to see Egon Muller among your 80s list. Good one mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 (edited) Would have been had it not been for bloody Persson - I've never forgiven him for that. I've watched it a number of times and I still think he did for Briggo. Remember Briggo had already beaten the eventual Champion Ivan Mauger. Yes WK he beat Ivan easily Ole had fell i believe Barry might of won that meeting with thirteen points.All in hindsight i suppose but Barry must of thought of that 72 final time/time again later on in life one that got away Great rider though.! Edited December 16, 2016 by Sidney the robin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Top 20 for the pre-war era based on a combination of average from Official matches (League and Nat Trophy plus EDL KO Cup) and % unbeaten would be - Jack Milne Wilbur Lamoreaux Eric Langton Jack Parker Vic Huxley Bill Kitchen Bluey Wilkinson Dick Case Ginger Lees Cordy Milne Max Grosskreutz Tom Farndon Joe Abbott Frank Charles Lionel Van Praag Syd Jackson Frank Arthur Tommy Croombs Jack Ormston Sprouts Elder Notes : Elder actually came in 11th but only participated in such meetings in one season hence the demotion. Both the Milne's plus Lamoreaux and Frank Arthur also competed in far fewer matches than the other 15 riders so may be in an artificially high positions. Reserves would be Ron Johnson and Wal Phillips. Details for this era are incomplete. An interesting list. And the inclusion of the American riders is more than justified - the lists are designed as being 'worldwide'. While Jack and Cordy Milne and Wilbur Lamoreaux did not appear in the UK until the mid-1930s, they were already recogned on what was then the world stage and raced with distinction in both the USA and Australia for several seasons before being enticed to the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Would have been had it not been for bloody Persson - I've never forgiven him for that. I've watched it a number of times and I still think he did for Briggo. Remember Briggo had already beaten the eventual Champion Ivan Mauger. Bernie was my favourite Heathen but he should have gone in that heat, no question 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 (edited) Bernie was my favourite Heathen but he should have gone in that heat, no questionWas there a gap Bruno ? was Briggo caught in no man's land. Edited December 15, 2016 by Sidney the robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 (edited) Here is my list for the period 1949-68: (1) Ove Fundin (2) Ivan Mauger (3) Barry Briggs (4) Vic Duggan (5) Ronnie Moore (6) Jack Parker (7) Tommy Price (8) Wilbur Lamoreaux (9) Peter Craven (10) Graham Warren (11) Aub Lawson (12) Norman Parker (13) Alan Hunt (14) Olle Nygren (15) Bjorn Knutsson (16) Brian Crutcher (17) Dick Bradley (18) Geoff Mardon (19) Arthur Forrest (20) Ron Johnston Eras to come - 1969-1988 1989- to present times ::: SPECIAL MESSAGE - PLEASE NOTE: This list for the period 1949-68 has been revised and updated .The new version is message 71 dated December 17, 2016. Edited December 17, 2016 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Here is my list for the period 1949-68: (1) Ove Fundin (2) Ivan Mauger (3) Barry Briggs (4) Vic Duggan (5) Ronnie Moore (6) Jack Parker (7) Tommy Price (8) Wilbur Lamoreaux (9) Peter Craven (10) Graham Warren (11) Aub Lawson (12) Norman Parker (13) Alan Hunt (14) Olle Nygren (15) Bjorn Knutsson (16) Brian Crutcher (17) Dick Bradley (18) Geoff Mardon (19) Arthur Forrest (20) Ron Johnston Eras to come - 1969-1988 1989- to present times Great list but Craven could he be higher.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Was there a gap Bruno ? was Briggo caught in no man's land. I don't think so Sid, all about opinions though I suppose. Then again on another point what if Bernie had won the run off. How would that have changed his career. Would he have been regarded as the worst ever world champion. Great rider though he was! Interesting eh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 I don't think so Sid, all about opinions though I suppose. Then again on another point what if Bernie had won the run off. How would that have changed his career. Would he have been regarded as the worst ever world champion. Great rider though he was! Interesting eh I would be bald now had he won the run-off. I would have torn my bloody hair out. Sorry Bruno but I thought he was a dirty sod - and that night he proved it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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