BOBBATH Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Have to agree re Norman Storer-always a solid guy. I recall he was in the 1964 PLRC Final, but I think he replaced someone who got injured-can anyone remind me who this was? Was also about to mention John Dews but Steve beat me to it-I recall John as a stalwart of the Sheffield side 1964-65, Here's another name or two- Mike Watkin(Newcastle) , Alan Butterfield (Middlesbrough). I have to support the mention of Mike Keen, from the village of Minety-does he still live there?? While I'm at it- Mike Cake as well. So many names come back to me as I'm posting this-e.g. John Poyser of Hackney, Brian Davies etc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Iris Dave Morton before he broke his leg at Hackney was never in the shadow of Chris in 76 Dave averaged over 10 not bad. Chris who i admired greatly had a great career but Dave before his injury was no mug certainly not in his brothers shadow. I am just dealing in facts,not fantasy.Even before his accident it looked like Chris was the better prospect.The fact that he made a world final at an early age was showing that.Dave,whilst a very good rider didn't look to be an international class one.The fact is as i stated at the beginning he was in the shadow of his brother.I know a lot of this section deals in fantasy and what might have happened and who would have won world championships if there were GPs in the 50s,60s and 70s,but they are just that,peoples fantasies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 For longevity in speedway without making a major breakthrough but completely dedicated to the sport between late 1952 until circa 1968, how about Bob Warner? I am certain that's a name to test the memories of many speedway fans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 What about Steve Chilman,who was riding at Wimbledon in the 60s and i seem to remember him also in the 70s(maybe making a second half comeback)and eventually had a little bit of glory in 1988 when he won the National Vintage Speedway Championship at Reading,in the post war class Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) For longevity in speedway without making a major breakthrough but completely dedicated to the sport between late 1952 until circa 1968, how about Bob Warner? I am certain that's a name to test the memories of many speedway fans? ::: From the much-valued International Speedway website. Bob Warner's moment of speedway glory: 1958 31.08 : Eastbourne Young England 58 Young Overseas 49 OFFICIAL This match was officially designated as a "Junior Test Match", and is notable for the first international team appearance of Ivan Mauger. England were without Leo McAuliffe, who broke down on the way to the track, so Ross Gilbertson replaced him in the team and Bob Warner, who had attended the match as a spectator, borrowed novice Ken Vale's equipment and became reserve. It was to be the peak of Warner's speedway career for, with Overseas holding a 3-point lead after 11 races, and England robbed of the services of Bobby Croombs and Frank Bettis through injury, he was called on to ride in 5 of the last 7 races, and his 8 points gave England the match. Edited December 7, 2016 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted December 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 I am just dealing in facts,not fantasy.Even before his accident it looked like Chris was the better prospect.The fact that he made a world final at an early age was showing that.Dave,whilst a very good rider didn't look to be an international class one.The fact is as i stated at the beginning he was in the shadow of his brother.I know a lot of this section deals in fantasy and what might have happened and who would have won world championships if there were GPs in the 50s,60s and 70s,but they are just that,peoples fantasiesMy point was that Dave was not in Chrissies shadow for those three seasons 1976 Dave averaged over 10 i think Chris averaged 9.53?.Chris we all knew he would go on to great things but my memory in that 76 season when i saw Dave ride he was flying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) My point was that Dave was not in Chrissies shadow for those three seasons 1976 Dave averaged over 10 i think Chris averaged 9.53?.Chris we all knew he would go on to great things but my memory in that 76 season when i saw Dave ride he was flying. Doesn't matter.Look back at their careers and Dave was in Chris' shadow.Your previous posts just help make my point.Obviously at first he wasn't.He was older,but overall he was.Dave never made a single world final,doubt he even made any major international final.Chris made plenty The original point i was making was he is an unsung hero.I don't want to put him down,he just wasn't as good as his younger brother.That is a fact Edited December 7, 2016 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted December 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Doesn't matter.Look back at their careers and Dave was in Chris' shadow.Your previous posts just help make my point.Obviously at first he wasn't.He was older,but overall he was.Dave never made a single world final,doubt he even made any major international final.Chris made plenty The original point i was making was he is an unsung hero.I don't want to put him down,he just wasn't as good as his younger brother.That is a fact I was not trying to prove a point at all, but you have not answered the point of the 76 year? will you give Dave credit for that year.? Dave was terrific for the Hawks that year i have always said that Chris was the better rider but Dave in that one season was on fire.SHADOW of his brother NO Dave Morton was a very good rider in his own right did you see him for Hackney Iris.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 I was not trying to prove a point at all, but you have not answered the point of the 76 year? will you give Dave credit for that year.? Dave was terrific for the Hawks that year i have always said that Chris was the better rider but Dave in that one season was on fire.SHADOW of his brother NO Dave Morton was a very good rider in his own right did you see him for Hackney Iris.? I saw him ride for Hackney of course. You see,the point is Sid i am talking over a whole career and not 1 season Dave rode from 71-86 and Chris from 73 when he made his team debut to 93.Now as early as 1974 Chris was British Junior Champ.In 75 he made his full England debut.and in the tests against Sweden scored 11 at Belle Vue whilst in the same series Dave scored 5 at Hackney.Now Chris was 3 years younger.The next season he made his first world final.During the period they raced at the same time Chris made another 4 world finals,plus he was part of world title winning pairs and teams.Dave wasn't...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted December 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 I saw him ride for Hackney of course. You see,the point is Sid i am talking over a whole career and not 1 season Dave rode from 71-86 and Chris from 73 when he made his team debut to 93.Now as early as 1974 Chris was British Junior Champ.In 75 he made his full England debut.and in the tests against Sweden scored 11 at Belle Vue whilst in the same series Dave scored 5 at Hackney.Now Chris was 3 years younger.The next season he made his first world final.During the period they raced at the same time Chris made another 4 world finals,plus he was part of world title winning pairs and teams.Dave wasn't...... Forget 71/86 after Dave broke his leg he was never the same again that is what you are forgetting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Forget 71/86 after Dave broke his leg he was never the same again that is what you are forgetting. True enough.You are right and Dave wasn't in Chris' shadow.My bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted December 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 True enough.You are right and Dave wasn't in Chris' shadow.My badI dont think there is a right or wrong Iris i enjoyed watching both Morton brothers Chris is one of the most exciting riders i have ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 I dont think there is a right or wrong Iris i enjoyed watching both Morton brothers Chris is one of the most exciting riders i have ever seen. We were lucky to have a big basket full of talent in the country back then.Lots of riders given a chance in test series.Now we have trouble naming a team for the SWC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 We were lucky to have a big basket full of talent in the country back then.Lots of riders given a chance in test series.Now we have trouble naming a team for the SWC Ain't that the truth? The sad, sad, truth... Think back to the quality of the riders who couldn't even make it to the British Final? Sure, there were only a small handful of real "superstars", but the strength in depth was incredible. Steve 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 Ain't that the truth? The sad, sad, truth... Think back to the quality of the riders who couldn't even make it to the British Final? Sure, there were only a small handful of real "superstars", but the strength in depth was incredible. Steve The old Second Division produced a hatful of riders who went on to become internationals and/or heat leaders in the First Division joining a smattering of class riders from the old Provincial League. It was no accident that Britain/England ruled during the seventies but of course this became more diluted once certain influential entrepreneurs took control and the old Second Division became a training ground for foreign imports and the whole scene changed. Hence one of the reasons (amongst many) why domestic speedway is in the state that it now finds itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted December 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) The old Second Division produced a hatful of riders who went on to become internationals and/or heat leaders in the First Division joining a smattering of class riders from the old Provincial League. It was no accident that Britain/England ruled during the seventies but of course this became more diluted once certain influential entrepreneurs took control and the old Second Division became a training ground for foreign imports and the whole scene changed. Hence one of the reasons (amongst many) why domestic speedway is in the state that it now finds itself.I really enjoyed the old NL i see quite alot of NL stuff over the years with the Owen brothers, old stagers Etheridge,Jackson,Sage, a nice blend of young and old riders.Do any of us think or believe that when the Rasmussen/Schroeck situation arose did that really have a massive effect on British speedway long term i believe it did. Edited December 8, 2016 by Sidney the robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 I really enjoyed the old NL i see quite alot of NL stuff over the years with the Owen brothers, old stagers Etheridge,Jackson,Sage, a nice blend of young and old riders.Do any of us think or believe that when the Rasmussen/Schroeck situation arose did that really have a massive effect on British speedway long term i believe it did. As you know Sidney supporting Oxford I saw the best of both worlds (and the old second halves when we got to see the talented riders from both Eastbourne and Peterborough) and it was a massive shame that the doors opened up giving the National League an opportunity in filling their teams with often very ordinary 'foreigners'. As regards 'Razzer' he had a case, of sorts, being married to an English girl but Peter Schroek really was the beginning of the situation we now endure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted December 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) As you know Sidney supporting Oxford I saw the best of both worlds (and the old second halves when we got to see the talented riders from both Eastbourne and Peterborough) and it was a massive shame that the doors opened up giving the National League an opportunity in filling their teams with often very ordinary 'foreigners'. As regards 'Razzer' he had a case, of sorts, being married to an English girl but Peter Schroek really was the beginning of the situation we now endure.Steve as your memory is spot on the money can you remember at Oxford in 1978 at the end of the season Oxford v Supporters Select.? George Hunter,Pip, Sheilds Hack (ect) v a select and i can remember Holloway scoring 10 at reserve.Also remember going to a NL England v Australasia test match as well. Edited December 8, 2016 by Sidney the robin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 I quickly put my mind to the number of English riders who progressed to full internationals from the old Second Division/National League. Dave Jesuup, Barry Thomas, Gordon Kennett, Peter Collins, Chris & Dave Morton, John Davis, John Louis, Doug Wyer, Reg Wilson, Kenny Cater, Michael Lee, Ian Cartwright, Alan Wilkinson...quite a list and that's not having to think very hard. I'm sure that there are lots more! No wonder Britain/England ruled the waves during the seventies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 I quickly put my mind to the number of English riders who progressed to full internationals from the old Second Division/National League. Dave Jesuup, Barry Thomas, Gordon Kennett, Peter Collins, Chris & Dave Morton, John Davis, John Louis, Doug Wyer, Reg Wilson, Kenny Cater, Michael Lee, Ian Cartwright, Alan Wilkinson...quite a list and that's not having to think very hard. I'm sure that there are lots more! No wonder Britain/England ruled the waves during the seventies! Very interesting. Here's a challenge - name riders who graduated from the old National League Division THREE to full England international status! Here's a few for starters - Cyril Roger, Alan Hunt, Wally Green, Bert Roger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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