Does British Speedway Have Future?

[iris123]

I would have thought that chanting banal songs and other such nonsense at football matches embarrassing enough...but they seem quite happy to do that!

Sounds like E I Addio might be an expert on that subject

[Humphrey Appleby]

Yes, it is the promoters' money and they are theoretically the risk takers here BUT the majority of this money has come from supporters paying to get in to their venues.

So, surely it makes sense for the end-user to have a significant say in the end product?

Promoters are not theoretically the risk takers - they are the risk takers. Each customer is contributing a very small percentage of the overall operating costs, and their liability is limited to whatever they pay to get into each meeting, or at most the cost of their season ticket. If the enterprise is not successful, it's not the customers who are chased for the outstanding debts, and whilst any sensible promoter should be operating as limited company, they'll still have had to front up sizeable monies.

 

The customer's say is whether they choose to buy the product or not. Waitrose or Marks & Spencer don't ask me how their stores are laid out or what products they should sell - I choose to shop there on the basis of price and/or whether I like their products.

 

Of course, sensible companies should do market research to better understand what their customers like, but they're also unlikely to heavily focus on their existing clientele because presumably they're happy enough if they keep coming. And speedway has the complication of having a very low profile amongst the wider public, so I suspect if you asked most people what would attract them to a speedway meeting, they wouldn't even know what you're talking about. You have to raise the visibility of the sport before you can even attempt to find out what would attract a new audience.

 

Okay, there's probably still a sizeable latent population of former speedway followers you might tap into, but that's going to be horribly ageing by now and their views on what they like are likely to be very different to what's going to make for a sustainable future for the sport.

 

As I said, you only have to look on here to see there's virtually no consensus with respect to what supporters really do want. We could probably agree on a few points such as more regular fixtures, more variety of opposition, far more team stability and fewer guests, but there would be no agreement on how to achieve that. Some want to see the 'top boys', some want more British riders, some want lower prices, whilst others think British speedway should bend over backwards for things like the SEC and European Pairs, but all of this stuff is largely mutually incompatible.

 

If the sport is to survive at anything above an amateur level, I think promoters have to choose a particular path and be damned. To me that's pitching it as a low cost sport with largely British-based riders, but also thinking how to make meetings a better value and more exciting package.

[Little Thumper]

If the sport is to survive at anything above an amateur level, I think promoters have to choose a particular path and be damned. To me that's pitching it as a low cost sport with largely British-based riders, but also thinking how to make meetings a better value and more exciting package.

 

Well, HA, we're singing off the same hymn sheet here.

 

So, how can this re-birth be brought about?

 

Or are we dreaming the impossible dream?

[steve roberts]

 

Well, HA, we're singing off the same hymn sheet here.

 

So, how can this re-birth be brought about?

 

Or are we dreaming the impossible dream?

...probably the impossible dream!

[Halifaxtiger]

You only have to read this forum to see there's little consensus on how to move the sport forward, and some of the suggestions would quite honestly bankrupt the sport in five minutes. I don't anyone would claim the BSPA does a great job, but ultimately it's the promoters' rather than fans' money on the line.

 

In any case, the speedway is now down to an ageing hardcore of fans who're rather set in their ways. If the sport is going to survive, it really needs to appeal to a completely new and younger audience, and they're not going to go along with riders marching out to Imperial Echoes, war cries, and programme boards.

 

First paragraph : completely agree

 

Second : When's the last time you actually attended a speedway meeting (not being insulting but we know only too well that about half the posters on here don't actually go at all or only go occasionally) ?

 

Thing is I can't recall hearing a war cry last season at all and even if my memory has failed me a bit they are certainly very rare indeed.

 

As to tunes they march out to, there are a few cheesy ones but most are OK.

 

Programme boards are a bit naff but try filling a programme in without one.

[Humphrey Appleby]

Second : When's the last time you actually attended a speedway meeting (not being insulting but we know only too well that about half the posters on here don't actually go at all or only go occasionally) ?

In the UK, I can't remember - maybe 2-3 years ago but that's because I don't really live in the UK. I've been to meetings in other countries more recently though.

 

However, I'm precisely the person to be having an opinion because I used to go to speedway a lot (for 20 years or more), and then for various reasons didn't go so much which caused me to have a different perspective.

 

Thing is I can't recall hearing a war cry last season at all and even if my memory has failed me a bit they are certainly very rare indeed.

My point wasn't whether there are war cries at speedway now, but that some feel that bringing them back would suddenly make the sport more appealing.

 

Programme boards are a bit naff but try filling a programme in without one.

My point is that the programme should be a thing of the past. People have smartphones now - why not think about selling an app that allows fans to follow the racing online, without the need for biros and tippex?

Edited December 15, 2016 by Humphrey Appleby

[Humphrey Appleby]

So, how can this re-birth be brought about?

Or are we dreaming the impossible dream?

That's the big question, and if there was an easy answer then it would have been done. I think it's going to be a very difficult task as the sport has become so under-capitalised, has a very low media profile, and a difficult audience demographic. It also isn't entirely the master of its own destiny as it doesn't own most of the venues where it's run, and its perceived un-environmental image makes it difficult to find alternatives.

 

However, I do think an important factor is people knowing well in advance when things are going to happen - namely getting fixtures out for the following season by the end of the calendar year. There also needs to be more certainty that meetings are going to be run, so less calling off meetings at the drop of a hat and ways found to make tracks more rideable in inclement conditions.

 

I think teams need to be riding on days that suit their paying spectators rather than their riders, which I imagine would primarily be Fridays and Saturdays. And teams should absolutely not be having off-weeks during the summer months when the weather is likely to be at its best.

 

Then I think you need to ensure that more-or-less the same teams is going to turn-up for each meeting, and promotions also need to be provided with incentives to build and develop teams without them being ripped apart just because they finished in the top half of the table. Riders should possibly be centrally contracted though, putting an end to the ridiculous asset system, but allowing pay rates to be controlled at affordable levels.

 

Meetings need to be better value for money, and seen to be better value. I think you need to be putting on a programme of around 20 heats run more swiftly so you're not hanging around for ages with nothing happening. Consideration should be given to including some sort of novelty like an 8-rider handicap event for some sort of meaningful competition.

 

There also needs to be far less silliness with respect to team building and replacement regulations - more use of junior riders in general, but more flexibility in terms of which can be used. In-season decisions should also be made by an commissioner, appointed by but independent from the promoters.

 

The sport is currently probably no more than a 10-12 pound price point, and should be structured with that in mind.

 

There's a still a lot of other things to answer - how can the (social) media profile be raised, what sort of things would attract a younger audience, how can the venues be improved, but these things needs to be answered by people with more relevant expertise in those areas.

[Garry1603]

Maybe it's not totally the sport itself which is the issue. A top speedway meeting is still one of the best night's entertainment that you can get in my opinion. The problem is that not enough people know about it or have assumed it to be consigned to history. I know of many people around Manchester who used to go to Hyde Road but lost track of the sport completely when they moved to Kirky Lane. The lack of 'promotion' of the sport is staggering both at local and national level.

 

An easy comment make, I know, but if we had a Dave Lanning (or for the older fans Johnnie Hoskins) around today they would be banging on the doors of the press to get some publicity for the sport.

 

Maybe if a rider could somehow get themselves onto a program like I'm a Celebrity, Strictly Come Dancing or any of the other reality shows which have become so popular with younger viewers, the knock on effect for the sport could be great - at least people would realise that it is still around (just).

 

Surely contacting someone who has worked in the media to act as a consultant would be a good place to start.

[Humphrey Appleby]

An easy comment make, I know, but if we had a Dave Lanning (or for the older fans Johnnie Hoskins) around today they would be banging on the doors of the press to get some publicity for the sport.

The 'press' is dying a death itself. I haven't actually bought a newspaper in years and it's obviously the case for many others as well, so the press just doesn't have the staff or interest in devoting space to low-profile sports.

 

Speedway needs to self-promote through the Internet, finding ways to grab attention.

[iris123]

The 'press' is dying a death itself. I haven't actually bought a newspaper in years and it's obviously the case for many others as well, so the press just doesn't have the staff or interest in devoting space to low-profile sports.

 

Speedway needs to self-promote through the Internet, finding ways to grab attention.

There is currently a little campaign i see of speedway people nominating 5 others to post a speedway photo on Facebook......seems very easy and spreads like wild fire.Whether it will have any effect is due to how many non speedway fans it reaches and interests

Edited December 15, 2016 by iris123

[steve roberts]

That's the big question, and if there was an easy answer then it would have been done. I think it's going to be a very difficult task as the sport has become so under-capitalised, has a very low media profile, and a difficult audience demographic. It also isn't entirely the master of its own destiny as it doesn't own most of the venues where it's run, and its perceived un-environmental image makes it difficult to find alternatives.

 

However, I do think an important factor is people knowing well in advance when things are going to happen - namely getting fixtures out for the following season by the end of the calendar year. There also needs to be more certainty that meetings are going to be run, so less calling off meetings at the drop of a hat and ways found to make tracks more rideable in inclement conditions.

 

I think teams need to be riding on days that suit their paying spectators rather than their riders, which I imagine would primarily be Fridays and Saturdays. And teams should absolutely not be having off-weeks during the summer months when the weather is likely to be at its best.

 

Then I think you need to ensure that more-or-less the same teams is going to turn-up for each meeting, and promotions also need to be provided with incentives to build and develop teams without them being ripped apart just because they finished in the top half of the table. Riders should possibly be centrally contracted though, putting an end to the ridiculous asset system, but allowing pay rates to be controlled at affordable levels.

 

Meetings need to be better value for money, and seen to be better value. I think you need to be putting on a programme of around 20 heats run more swiftly so you're not hanging around for ages with nothing happening. Consideration should be given to including some sort of novelty like an 8-rider handicap event for some sort of meaningful competition.

 

There also needs to be far less silliness with respect to team building and replacement regulations - more use of junior riders in general, but more flexibility in terms of which can be used. In-season decisions should also be made by an commissioner, appointed by but independent from the promoters.

 

The sport is currently probably no more than a 10-12 pound price point, and should be structured with that in mind.

 

There's a still a lot of other things to answer - how can the (social) media profile be raised, what sort of things would attract a younger audience, how can the venues be improved, but these things needs to be answered by people with more relevant expertise in those areas.

Good post! Agree with everything you say.

 

I have often cited many of the same views as yourself on this and the old Oxford Forum (the one that old Shovlar never frequented!)

 

Personally I feel that the sport has reached a critical point and just tinkering with the rules isn't going to turn it around.

Edited December 15, 2016 by steve roberts

[wealdstone]

The reaction of those in charge has never been to look how the product can be improved rather they dilute the product and charge more. The reaction to anybody who thought different and had the money and the will to use it has been resentment and to drive them out of the sport.

[Pieman72]

Excellent post Wealdstone frankly it's disgusting how much it costs to attend a meeting. I'm here and I'm going nowhere it's getting something what we all want and then nogotiating. £18+ admission costs are not sustainable and that is top of the agenda.

[Gresham]

Trouble is the speedway fraternity doesn't really know what and what doesn't appeal to a younger audience because there is a lack of engagement between the two. Personally I don't know what excites and enthuses young people (other than the usual stereo-typing) and working within the tourism industry it's still a mystery to me.

It was reported last week, that Teenagers in the UK spend less time outside than Prison Inmates. Even when I see them at the football or Rugby, many have their face in their I phone.

[steve roberts]

It was reported last week, that Teenagers in the UK spend less time outside than Prison Inmates. Even when I see them at the football or Rugby, many have their face in their I phone.

It's a worrying trend and to think when 'I were a lad' (more years than I care to remember) I spent the best part of my formative years playing football and cricket, cowboys and indians (can hear the PC brigade now), cycling everywhere, playing in the woods and netting sticklebacks as well as putting on puppet shows!

 

Fortunately Dad was a great speedway fan and as well as my weekly fix watching speedway at Cowley we used to travel up to 'the smoke' every Wednesday or Tuesday to watch White City and often Swindon on the Saturday. Many of my school colleagues never had the opportunity going to London but we were doing it on a regular basis!

 

We also went to watch 'The U's' at the Manor Ground when the chance was offered. Great days...never had a boring moment during my child hood. Electrical toys? Scalextric was a favourite but no model railway...but I'm making up for that now!

Edited December 15, 2016 by steve roberts

[wealdstone]

It was reported last week, that Teenagers in the UK spend less time outside than Prison Inmates. Even when I see them at the football or Rugby, many have their face in their I phone.

Clearly the healthy option is send them all to prison.

[Gresham]

It's a worrying trend and to think when 'I were a lad' (more years than I care to remember) I spent the best part of my formative years playing football and cricket, cowboys and indians (can hear the PC brigade now), cycling everywhere, playing in the woods and netting sticklebacks as well as putting on puppet shows!

 

Fortunately Dad was a great speedway fan and as well as my weekly fix watching speedway at Cowley we used to travel up to 'the smoke' every Wednesday or Tuesday to watch White City and often Swindon on the Saturday. Many of my school colleagues never had the opportunity going to London but we were doing it on a regular basis!

 

We also went to watch 'The U's' at the Manor Ground when the chance was offered. Great days...never had a boring moment during my child hood. Electrical toys? Scalextric was a favourite but no model railway...but I'm making up for that now!

Similar to me. I was never indoors. Played and lived for Sport. Whilst at school I played for the Rugby, Cricket, Football and Basketball teams. Represented the County at Javelin and Golf. Played for the local Towns Football Club. Played for the Golf Club league team. Tried my hand at enduro and Moto x...and did Ski Racing at the local Dry slope. If stuck indoors, I played Subbuteo or with the Speedway Race game I made to use with Britains Speedway models. The only thing electric I had was a Guitar and keyboard and Record Player.

 

Blimey...when I think back, I don't know how I found the time to do it all.

 

I teach Skiing and Racing, and it's so obvious to see which kids don't play outside or play any sport, as they have no strength in their legs and very little co ordination.

 

What's also noticeable is that they don't like being told or Instructed, and give up very easily.

 

The amount of times I've asked beginners if they've skied before, with the answer being 'Yes', only to find out later, it was on computer and not physically...you couldn't make it up...Nuts!!!

[Halifaxtiger]

In the UK, I can't remember - maybe 2-3 years ago but that's because I don't really live in the UK. I've been to meetings in other countries more recently though.

 

However, I'm precisely the person to be having an opinion because I used to go to speedway a lot (for 20 years or more), and then for various reasons didn't go so much which caused me to have a different perspective.

 

 

My point wasn't whether there are war cries at speedway now, but that some feel that bringing them back would suddenly make the sport more appealing.

 

 

My point is that the programme should be a thing of the past. People have smartphones now - why not think about selling an app that allows fans to follow the racing online, without the need for biros and tippex?

 

Are you ?

 

Whose opinion counts more - someone who goes every week or might go every week or someone who hasn't been for 2 or 3 years and is unlikely to go again ? That doesn't mean your view is worthless - definitely not in your case, your post above is an excellent one - but I'd say the views of those who attend regularly or might attend regularly are far more valuable.

 

Four things that are constantly raised are the quality of racing, the facilities, delays and presentation. Unless you go, you can't comment on the last three at all and can only comment on the first based upon about one third of British tracks

 

Is there a sport that has done away with programmes entirely ?

Edited December 15, 2016 by Halifaxtiger

[steve roberts]

Similar to me. I was never indoors. Played and lived for Sport. Whilst at school I played for the Rugby, Cricket, Football and Basketball teams. Represented the County at Javelin and Golf. Played for the local Towns Football Club. Played for the Golf Club league team. Tried my hand at enduro and Moto x...and did Ski Racing at the local Dry slope. If stuck indoors, I played Subbuteo or with the Speedway Race game I made to use with Britains Speedway models. The only thing electric I had was a Guitar and keyboard and Record Player.

 

Blimey...when I think back, I don't know how I found the time to do it all.

 

I teach Skiing and Racing, and it's so obvious to see which kids don't play outside or play any sport, as they have no strength in their legs and very little co ordination.

 

What's also noticeable is that they don't like being told or Instructed, and give up very easily.

 

The amount of times I've asked beginners if they've skied before, with the answer being 'Yes', only to find out later, it was on computer and not physically...you couldn't make it up...Nuts!!!

Good post!

 

I'm at a loss to work out what makes young people 'tick' and how best to stimulate any interest or enthusiasm. As I've mentioned many times I work within the tourism industry and tire at having to continually hear the term 'it needs to be interactive'...which often translates 'having buttons to press' or an area that parents can leave their children to do as they please which ultimately means a play area. I see teenagers walking around at work with that bored expression painted across their faces...although I do have ways breaking that scenario by stepping into character!!

 

The call is that speedway needs to attract a younger cliental but how that can be achieved I'm at a loss hence why I can see speedway becoming very much an amateur sport somewhat akin to grass track (which is in an even worse state).

Edited December 15, 2016 by steve roberts

[Humphrey Appleby]

Whose opinion counts more - someone who goes every week or might go every week or someone who hasn't been for 2 or 3 years and is unlikely to go again ?

How do you know I'm not likely to go again? As I said, I stopped going regularly for a variety of reasons, now don't live in the UK, and don't have a convenient local track to attend even if I did.

 

The people who still go regularly may grumble about things, but they're still going so can't be that disenchanted. Obviously their opinions shouldn't be disregarded, but it's the people who don't go you really need to be asking.

 

The first problem with speedway is that most of the population have barely heard of it, so it's a bit difficult to ask people who have no interest in the first place what they'd like. So you've then got to target the people who're well aware of what speedway is, who may have previously gone regularly, but have fallen away from the sport for whatever reason.

 

In my case, the nail in the coffin was the closing of the local track, but I had become increasingly disenchanted with the sport for 2 or 3 years leading up to it. Meetings being called off at the drop of a hat, meetings taking an age to run with endless indeterminable delays, and what just seemed to be a general contempt for the paying public.

 

I'd still go to the occasional meeting elsewhere when I was nearby though, and the fact that I'm still on a speedway forum suggests I haven't completely lost interest. However, with not going very often any more, it gives one a different perspective, and sorry to say that the sport just comes over as being from a different era nowadays.

 

Four things that are constantly raised are the quality of racing, the facilities, delays and presentation. Unless you go, you can't comment on the last three at all and can only comment on the first based upon about one third of British tracks.

Not sure what the 'one third of British tracks' relates to. I've been to just about every British track, although some admittedly not for a number of years. Most were rundown dumps then, and I'd be amazed if they've improved any in the intervening years given the general state of the sport. One exception was the new Belle Vue which I went and looked at earlier this year when I had an hour to spare in Manchester, and my recollection was that Mildenhall was a pleasant but remote experience when I went a couple of years ago.

 

I didn't comment at all on the quality of the racing at all, and I already clarified my comments on presentation were about the suggestions to bring back the old ways as the solution to improving crowds. However, it's quite apparent from reading comments on here, that little has been done to address the delays that were becoming increasingly prevalent even when I was going regularly. It may not be the case everywhere, but to me the public needs to know what a speedway meeting entails wherever they go, not just what the local track may decide.

 

Is there a sport that has done away with programmes entirely ?

In how many sports do you need to fill in the programme in order to follow the proceedings? Does anyone do manual lap scoring in F1 these days?

I'm at a loss to work out what makes young people 'tick' and how best to stimulate any interest or enthusiasm. As I've mentioned many times I work within the tourism industry and tire at having to continually hear the term 'it needs to be interactive'...which often translates 'having buttons to press' or an area that parents can leave their children to do as they please which ultimately means a play area.

I imagine young people are stimulated in the same way as they always were - by introducing them to different experiences and then leaving them to their, erm... own devices. What's difficult for people to understand who didn't grow up with the Internet (which includes me), is that there's so much information easily available out there now that's it's difficult to absorb, far less work out what's interesting.

 

We were limited by the knowledge we could obtain in the local library and what we could make out of Meccano, and had to occupy ourselves kicking balls around the park, reading the limited selection of books available or designing Hornby train layouts (in the days before there were computer programs to help you). The options were much more limited.

 

Having said this, I think the trend towards 'interactive' museums is more driven by adults who think it's what the 'yoof' wants rather than what it needs. I certainly think the average museum of the past could have provided a bit more explanatory material around their exhibits, but I'd have felt utterly patronised as an 8-year to have to press buttons to supposedly learn stuff.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Humphrey Appleby