Does British Speedway Have Future?

[stevehone]

Think we definitely need to see more needle, whether real or not between the riders and opposing team managers. Take a look at the banter between Eddie Jones and Michael Chieka ahead of the weekend rugby international. All the talk created lots of column inches and stirred up interest ahead of the game.

 

Barry Hearn has managed to create "personalities" in Darts and all we really have is Nikki P.

 

Surely with the likes of Craig Cook, Jason Garrity etc we can come up with more sound bites and nicknames that attract a younger audience.

 

Nicki Pedersen v Monster

[Paulco]

Couldn't agree more. On a different thread one or two people are still bellyaching about Cook and Woffinden's exploits in the Play Off final but we need more of that kind of stuff to get the crowd going rather than falling asleep in their seats / camping chairs. A little bit of controversy does speedway the power of good when it happens as long as nobody gets injured.

My one and only experience of a Polish speedway league meeting was in 2011 , Gniezno v Bydgoszcz . Scott Nicholls was riding for Gniezno and Emil Sayfutinov was riding in the visiting team . On every lamp post and every wall of the small town was a poster featuring a picture of the previous year's scuffle between the two at Cardiff . The result was a full ten thousand capacity stadium .

Not saying anything close to that would be achievable here , but simmering feuds in any sporting occasion adds that extra bit of spice that puts bums on seats . God help the GP's when Nikki calls it a day

[TonyMac]

There are so many things that need to be done to secure the sport's future in Britain, but the starting point has to be an immediate acceptance and realisation by all promoters and riders that it has to go semi-professional or amateur. That applies to ALL THREE divisions.

 

The simple fact is, the vast majority of promoters cannot afford to pay the riders as much as they are getting. Whether some of those who do are doing it as a tax dodge, or ego, or both, I don't know but it's plain to see that, with the possible exception of Poole and one or two others, most tracks actually run at a financial loss. And that scenario can only end badly.

 

I was staggered to read in Speedway Star the other day that Plymouth (were they Premier League last season - sorry, it's far too late and I don't have the inclination to check right now?) went bust owing almost £300K. How can that happen if their riders are paid in accordance with turnstile revenue and other income, such as sponsorship, catering, bars, progs, souvenirs. etc?

 

Belle Vue have gone bust despite producing a winning team (yes, I know there were lots of problems at the NSS from day one but the Aces still proved successful over the EL season and had some exciting riders to watch).

 

And there the mess at Leicester, another top flight club in crisis.

 

So what hope the rest?

 

Riders (and, indirectly, their multitude of mechanics and tuners) are bleeding the sport dry in many cases - and it has to stop.

 

Now.

 

Tell the riders currently racing in GB that the game's up, the party's over. Common sense has broken out at long last. "Yes, Torben, Dragobowski and Fritz, I'm sorry chaps, but you are going to have to go out and get a part-time job from now on. I'm sure with your skills on a bike you'll have no trouble becoming a pizza delivery man."

 

Sure, they won't like it and some obviously won't accept it at all. But they can't all jump ship to Poland, Sweden, Denmark, etc and earn more than they do here.

 

The sport needs to cut its cloth, now more than ever. To deal with the inevitable shortage of riders whose egos and wallets won't accept semi-pro status, reduce teams from seven to six riders, or even five if absolutely necessary. Denmark used to run their top league on a 4TT basis, so even that is a possible last resort.

 

It's not as if there are many more 'stars' left to lose anyway.

 

Riders, ideally young, hungry and British, should be made to accept that they have to combine riding with a 'day job', like many did back in the day. Instead of running three or four bikes and two mechanics, run one or two bikes and one part-time mechanic, or a mate to dope and oil.

 

Ah, you say that some promoters will not adhere to amateurism and will break ranks to pay their star names 'under the counter' to get round the new set-up. As if!

 

OK, so the way to shut down that loophole is for the BSPA, or ideally an independent governing body, to administer the sport from a central office, from which all riders' BASIC wages are paid and contracts are registered and held. If any promoter is found guilty of making a cash payment, or getting round it via a 'sponsor', then their team may be deducted points, fined or relegated, and that promoter's licence revoked.

 

As for personalities, promoters need to create new stars, who are very willing to engage with the public both before and after the meeting.

 

And fans need to be given better access so that they can fully engage with their heroes. Speedway has always been better at doing this compared to most sports but more can - and should - be done to rebuild those bridges between the men, women and kids on the terraces and the riders whose wages they pay.

 

I cannot understand why promoters shell out ludicrous money - hundreds of thousands a year - to run a team and accept such little in return from the riders whose pockets they line.

 

To me, a rider is only worth the amount of revenue he (and his team-mates) generate. So if only 1,000 people come to watch them, they should be paid in accordance with those gate receipts, or whatever other additional income is generated. There is nothing to stop a promoter offering riders an incentive and paying them a bit more if, and when, attendances increase. But they shouldn't be paid 'X' regardless of how many fans pay to see them.

 

It makes me laugh when people bang on about needing to come up with new ideas in order for the sport to flourish. Yes, a fresh approach is all well and good and should be encouraged but they should start by learning from history - the good and the bad. There is not much that has not been tried at some point since 1928.

 

Of course, the above is a very basic ideal and the details would need to be ironed out to make it work.

 

By cutting their cloth, promoters can then lower admission prices to around the tenner mark, to make watching speedway a more affordable and attractive proposition again.

 

Given the collective will of promoters whose main interest is to safeguard the sport, it can definitely be done.

Drastic situations require drastic measures. It's time for those who govern the sport to wake up, accept they can't go on paying out money they don't get in (or not in a growing number of cases) and be bold, in harmony, and to act for the common good.

 

How and where to display posters around the locality, school visits by riders, freshly cut grass on the centre-green, a good announcer, nicer toilets, tastier burgers, more colourful programmes, far more attention paid to the use and exploitation of social media . . . yes, they are important, but secondary to my fundamental plan.

 

GO SEMI-PRO.

Edited December 5, 2016 by tmc

[balderdash&piffle]

Unfortunately its not as noisy as it was.

Surely jumping the start is gaining an unfair advantage

The rider sits still, does not move.

The rider does not touch the tapes.

All he has done is anticipated perfectly, how on earth can that be judged as jumping the start

[ch958]

TMC - best post I've read on here. Completely correct in every way. Put your tin hat on though.

[Little Thumper]

The rider sits still, does not move.

The rider does not touch the tapes.

All he has done is anticipated perfectly, how on earth can that be judged as jumping the start

 

I've always thought that if you haven't touched/broken the tapes, then you haven't false started.

 

If you do touch the tapes, you IMMEDIATELY go back 15 yards. Riders stay at the start.

 

If you do break the tapes, then you are EXCLUDED, no ifs, no buts, no going back 15, no reserves, no appeals.

 

If a rider wants to risk slightly anticipating the tapes going up, then good luck to them.

[New Science]

The rider sits still, does not move.

The rider does not touch the tapes.

All he has done is anticipated perfectly, how on earth can that be judged as jumping the start

If he does that in the referee's opinion then the race doesn't get pulled back

 

I've always thought that if you haven't touched/broken the tapes, then you haven't false started.

 

If you do touch the tapes, you IMMEDIATELY go back 15 yards. Riders stay at the start.

 

If you do break the tapes, then you are EXCLUDED, no ifs, no buts, no going back 15, no reserves, no appeals.

 

If a rider wants to risk slightly anticipating the tapes going up, then good luck to them.

So a rolling start is ok then ?

[Pieman72]

We can twaek the sport once it's in better health. What I require is idea's something not tried or racing that gives better value and entertainment at a realistic admission price. Amateur riders probably aren't the way forward as it's too expensive and you would need a second full time income? Clicking turnstiles is the answer. Protential promoters need to try new formats and see what does and doesn't work. Pirate tracks aren't the answer but something devolved from the SCB may be the solution?

[Trees]

We can twaek the sport once it's in better health. What I require is idea's something not tried or racing that gives better value and entertainment at a realistic admission price. Amateur riders probably aren't the way forward as it's too expensive and you would need a second full time income? Clicking turnstiles is the answer. Protential promoters need to try new formats and see what does and doesn't work. Pirate tracks aren't the answer but something devolved from the SCB may be the solution?

 

You mean like handicap racing Great for us not so for the riders .....

[moxey63]

Is there too much money going out of the sport - machinery and tuning it, for example? Riders having multiple machines must cost a fortune to maintain. For domestic racing, you do not need mega-bucks spending on machinery, as long as it's an equal playing field. Perhaps I'm wrong, but there was once a day when even the top boys had two machines at best. for league matches. Even the raw junior nowadays seems to want the best of things, and this doesn't help the sport whatsoever. It is a small sport and should be treated as such when cloth needs to be cut.

[mikebv]

Team speedway has a relatively short shelf life I would suggest...

 

(In Britain anyway)

 

For a team sport to generate interest you needs it's supporters to have passion for both the sport itself, but in particular 'their team'.

 

But how can you engender 'emotional loyalty' to your local teams riders when they change so often?. Some weeks you may have one rider out of the seven you should have representing you.

 

And six from your competitors!?

 

Quite ridiculous and from a team sport perspective totally at odds with a team event in regards to its integrity and credibility.

 

Transfer the lack of single meeting integrity into the league title itself and truly why attend something all season that has no credibility even if you win it?...

 

Not much of a starting point with which to sell the sport is it?

 

As we will see next season. Most teams in the PL will have 70% or so of 'their riders' performing in the lower leagues too, meaning 'guests galore' and 'select teams' trying desperately to attract crowds on 'off nights' to fit in the logistical nightmare of completing the league season... (Good luck in achieving that). (For once)!!

 

Too many teams, and not enough riders of the required quality leaves team speedway in Britain as a lame duck and add in a customer base demographic of virtually only white males, middle to upper middle aged, (in a country with huge diversity) and you have a base that by 'natural causes' is withering and dying (both metaphorically and sadly physically) as each year goes by...

 

And as these people no longer frequent the terraces the shortfall in money has to be made up by those who still do in inflation busting price increases, thus driving more people away from an economical perspective too...

 

Ultimately team speedway is too far gone for me to save itself. Maybe becoming like stock cars or Moto x is the answer? ie run maybe one 'big' individual a month at each venue with good sponsorship and prize money and align it with a season long British Championship that delivers great sponsorship and great prize money?

 

A basket case of a sport is team speedway in Britain. A hopeless case sadly for me...

 

However the sport when done well is still fantastic to watch so who knows?

 

Get some credibility, get some integrity, get four riders of relatively equal ability in each race, have no guests, ride on nights that generate the biggest crowds for your club, deliver a full evening of on track and off track entertainment that brings in a diverse fan base and meets a 21st Century crowds expectations, and sort out a cost structure that allows an absolute PL max £15 admission, and Speedway in Britain may have a chance as a team sport...

 

More chance of knitting fog than delivering that list I would say, sadly...

Edited December 5, 2016 by mikebv

[moxey63]

mikebv

 

Exactly. I have just been thinking, it was about 1994-ish when I began withdrawing my full passion from supporting Belle Vue. It was because, even then, it dawned on me that the team was no longer my team, as it was really the start of multi-country racing for many of the riders back then. I recall one night at Kirky Lane, waiting nearly an hour for a meeting to start, a 4TT, because a glut of the riders involved had been held up en-route from the Swedish League.

 

I started getting cynical about my team, about the sport, because of the way teams were thrown together, the way riders began focusing on more than one country in other leagues. I remember when teams were teams, and could not be fooled by supporting guys, many of them who were operating because it was a free date in their diary. How can you throw your emotions and efforts into cheering on a team that is not a team?

Edited December 5, 2016 by moxey63

[SteveLyric2]

Truly amazed at all the positivity on this thread!!!!??

[moxey63]

Can't be positive... when watching the death of anything.

[Starman2006]

There are so many things that need to be done to secure the sport's future in Britain, but the starting point has to be an immediate acceptance and realisation by all promoters and riders that it has to go semi-professional or amateur. That applies to ALL THREE divisions.

 

The simple fact is, the vast majority of promoters cannot afford to pay the riders as much as they are getting. Whether some of those who do are doing it as a tax dodge, or ego, or both, I don't know but it's plain to see that, with the possible exception of Poole and one or two others, most tracks actually run at a financial loss. And that scenario can only end badly.

 

I was staggered to read in Speedway Star the other day that Plymouth (were they Premier League last season - sorry, it's far too late and I don't have the inclination to check right now?) went bust owing almost £300K. How can that happen if their riders are paid in accordance with turnstile revenue and other income, such as sponsorship, catering, bars, progs, souvenirs. etc?

 

Belle Vue have gone bust despite producing a winning team (yes, I know there were lots of problems at the NSS from day one but the Aces still proved successful over the EL season and had some exciting riders to watch).

 

And there the mess at Leicester, another top flight club in crisis.

 

So what hope the rest?

 

Riders (and, indirectly, their multitude of mechanics and tuners) are bleeding the sport dry in many cases - and it has to stop.

 

Now.

 

Tell the riders currently racing in GB that the game's up, the party's over. Common sense has broken out at long last. "Yes, Torben, Dragobowski and Fritz, I'm sorry chaps, but you are going to have to go out and get a part-time job from now on. I'm sure with your skills on a bike you'll have no trouble becoming a pizza delivery man."

 

Sure, they won't like it and some obviously won't accept it at all. But they can't all jump ship to Poland, Sweden, Denmark, etc and earn more than they do here.

 

The sport needs to cut its cloth, now more than ever. To deal with the inevitable shortage of riders whose egos and wallets won't accept semi-pro status, reduce teams from seven to six riders, or even five if absolutely necessary. Denmark used to run their top league on a 4TT basis, so even that is a possible last resort.

 

It's not as if there are many more 'stars' left to lose anyway.

 

Riders, ideally young, hungry and British, should be made to accept that they have to combine riding with a 'day job', like many did back in the day. Instead of running three or four bikes and two mechanics, run one or two bikes and one part-time mechanic, or a mate to dope and oil.

 

Ah, you say that some promoters will not adhere to amateurism and will break ranks to pay their star names 'under the counter' to get round the new set-up. As if!

 

OK, so the way to shut down that loophole is for the BSPA, or ideally an independent governing body, to administer the sport from a central office, from which all riders' BASIC wages are paid and contracts are registered and held. If any promoter is found guilty of making a cash payment, or getting round it via a 'sponsor', then their team may be deducted points, fined or relegated, and that promoter's licence revoked.

 

As for personalities, promoters need to create new stars, who are very willing to engage with the public both before and after the meeting.

 

And fans need to be given better access so that they can fully engage with their heroes. Speedway has always been better at doing this compared to most sports but more can - and should - be done to rebuild those bridges between the men, women and kids on the terraces and the riders whose wages they pay.

 

I cannot understand why promoters shell out ludicrous money - hundreds of thousands a year - to run a team and accept such little in return from the riders whose pockets they line.

 

To me, a rider is only worth the amount of revenue he (and his team-mates) generate. So if only 1,000 people come to watch them, they should be paid in accordance with those gate receipts, or whatever other additional income is generated. There is nothing to stop a promoter offering riders an incentive and paying them a bit more if, and when, attendances increase. But they shouldn't be paid 'X' regardless of how many fans pay to see them.

 

It makes me laugh when people bang on about needing to come up with new ideas in order for the sport to flourish. Yes, a fresh approach is all well and good and should be encouraged but they should start by learning from history - the good and the bad. There is not much that has not been tried at some point since 1928.

 

Of course, the above is a very basic ideal and the details would need to be ironed out to make it work.

 

By cutting their cloth, promoters can then lower admission prices to around the tenner mark, to make watching speedway a more affordable and attractive proposition again.

 

Given the collective will of promoters whose main interest is to safeguard the sport, it can definitely be done.

Drastic situations require drastic measures. It's time for those who govern the sport to wake up, accept they can't go on paying out money they don't get in (or not in a growing number of cases) and be bold, in harmony, and to act for the common good.

 

How and where to display posters around the locality, school visits by riders, freshly cut grass on the centre-green, a good announcer, nicer toilets, tastier burgers, more colourful programmes, far more attention paid to the use and exploitation of social media . . . yes, they are important, but secondary to my fundamental plan.

 

GO SEMI-PRO.

You must have had time on your hands...

[AndyJ]

How can you throw your emotions and efforts into cheering on a team that is not a team?

This is definitely a flaw with modern day Speedway that has adverse impact on my own interest. One of the main factors that cemented my interest in the sport, during my formative years, was the team concept. I completely understand the economic driving factors behind it, and the relatively small pool of riders who are available to fill the team spaces, but the fact that riders concurrently sign and race for multiple teams undermines the whole idea of teams. It is bad enough when the teams are in different countries but, as we approach the new season and the idea of promotion and relegation, it is difficult to ignore the invitable conflict of loyalties that doubling-up almost guarantees. Even with rose-tinted specs in place I'm anticipating a potential shambles...:o/

[moxey63]

I'm anticipating a potential shambles...:o/

 

I think speedway sets itself up too many times for a fall. If it were Laurel & Hardy, it'd be funny.... You can see it right now, next season's promotion/relegation scrap, the heart-tugging choice of the double-upper, as he has to choose what team he's on! Why-oh-why, promoters, do you set yourselves up. It ain't funny, and it ain't clever.... and I ain't gonna be part of it.

Edited December 5, 2016 by moxey63

[mikebv]

There are so many things that need to be done to secure the sport's future in Britain, but the starting point has to be an immediate acceptance and realisation by all promoters and riders that it has to go semi-professional or amateur. That applies to ALL THREE divisions.

 

The simple fact is, the vast majority of promoters cannot afford to pay the riders as much as they are getting. Whether some of those who do are doing it as a tax dodge, or ego, or both, I don't know but it's plain to see that, with the possible exception of Poole and one or two others, most tracks actually run at a financial loss. And that scenario can only end badly.

 

I was staggered to read in Speedway Star the other day that Plymouth (were they Premier League last season - sorry, it's far too late and I don't have the inclination to check right now?) went bust owing almost £300K. How can that happen if their riders are paid in accordance with turnstile revenue and other income, such as sponsorship, catering, bars, progs, souvenirs. etc?

 

Belle Vue have gone bust despite producing a winning team (yes, I know there were lots of problems at the NSS from day one but the Aces still proved successful over the EL season and had some exciting riders to watch).

 

And there the mess at Leicester, another top flight club in crisis.

 

So what hope the rest?

 

Riders (and, indirectly, their multitude of mechanics and tuners) are bleeding the sport dry in many cases - and it has to stop.

 

Now.

 

Tell the riders currently racing in GB that the game's up, the party's over. Common sense has broken out at long last. "Yes, Torben, Dragobowski and Fritz, I'm sorry chaps, but you are going to have to go out and get a part-time job from now on. I'm sure with your skills on a bike you'll have no trouble becoming a pizza delivery man."

 

Sure, they won't like it and some obviously won't accept it at all. But they can't all jump ship to Poland, Sweden, Denmark, etc and earn more than they do here.

 

The sport needs to cut its cloth, now more than ever. To deal with the inevitable shortage of riders whose egos and wallets won't accept semi-pro status, reduce teams from seven to six riders, or even five if absolutely necessary. Denmark used to run their top league on a 4TT basis, so even that is a possible last resort.

 

It's not as if there are many more 'stars' left to lose anyway.

 

Riders, ideally young, hungry and British, should be made to accept that they have to combine riding with a 'day job', like many did back in the day. Instead of running three or four bikes and two mechanics, run one or two bikes and one part-time mechanic, or a mate to dope and oil.

 

Ah, you say that some promoters will not adhere to amateurism and will break ranks to pay their star names 'under the counter' to get round the new set-up. As if!

 

OK, so the way to shut down that loophole is for the BSPA, or ideally an independent governing body, to administer the sport from a central office, from which all riders' BASIC wages are paid and contracts are registered and held. If any promoter is found guilty of making a cash payment, or getting round it via a 'sponsor', then their team may be deducted points, fined or relegated, and that promoter's licence revoked.

 

As for personalities, promoters need to create new stars, who are very willing to engage with the public both before and after the meeting.

 

And fans need to be given better access so that they can fully engage with their heroes. Speedway has always been better at doing this compared to most sports but more can - and should - be done to rebuild those bridges between the men, women and kids on the terraces and the riders whose wages they pay.

 

I cannot understand why promoters shell out ludicrous money - hundreds of thousands a year - to run a team and accept such little in return from the riders whose pockets they line.

 

To me, a rider is only worth the amount of revenue he (and his team-mates) generate. So if only 1,000 people come to watch them, they should be paid in accordance with those gate receipts, or whatever other additional income is generated. There is nothing to stop a promoter offering riders an incentive and paying them a bit more if, and when, attendances increase. But they shouldn't be paid 'X' regardless of how many fans pay to see them.

 

It makes me laugh when people bang on about needing to come up with new ideas in order for the sport to flourish. Yes, a fresh approach is all well and good and should be encouraged but they should start by learning from history - the good and the bad. There is not much that has not been tried at some point since 1928.

 

Of course, the above is a very basic ideal and the details would need to be ironed out to make it work.

 

By cutting their cloth, promoters can then lower admission prices to around the tenner mark, to make watching speedway a more affordable and attractive proposition again.

 

Given the collective will of promoters whose main interest is to safeguard the sport, it can definitely be done.

Drastic situations require drastic measures. It's time for those who govern the sport to wake up, accept they can't go on paying out money they don't get in (or not in a growing number of cases) and be bold, in harmony, and to act for the common good.

 

How and where to display posters around the locality, school visits by riders, freshly cut grass on the centre-green, a good announcer, nicer toilets, tastier burgers, more colourful programmes, far more attention paid to the use and exploitation of social media . . . yes, they are important, but secondary to my fundamental plan.

 

GO SEMI-PRO.

Great post tmc....

 

The ultimate irony for me is how promoters seem to work night and day finding a way to try and out do each other, be it manipulating rules to suit their own end, through to gazumping other promoters re riders by 'turning their heads' to greater riches...

 

All in the name of winning a League Title that barely anyone even in their local area will give a toss about actually winning, as hardly anyone will actually know the sport (never mind the League) exists!!

 

All that energy put into writing rules, re-writing rules, re-re writing rules and eventually "in the interests of Speedway" completely ignoring the rules!!

 

All to p1ss off an ever dwindling disillusioned fan base even further..

 

Maybe putting as much energy into re-starting from scratch, learning from all the self inflicted mistakes and re-launching the sport when 'fit for purpose' would be a better idea..?

 

That though would mean some real radical planning not just a 'make do and mend' mashed together 'variation on a theme' plan that surfaces year after year and fundamentally changes nothing..

 

We as fans can face the fact that Speedway in this country has exactly the mainstream profile and fanbase success it deserves the way it is delivered, promoted and administered..

 

Amazingly I actually still think many promoters feel that they are involved in running a 'proper, professional sport', on a par with other pro sports, and one where 'winning the title' actually still has some kudos..

 

Truly laughable if it wasn't so tragic..

Edited December 5, 2016 by mikebv

[LagutaRacingFan]

The British Speedway demographic is dying out.

 

Just look at the terraces and that tells you everything you need to know about the future of the sport.

[falkirkbandit]

Roll on the 2017 season!