iris123 Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Like I said...'it might'...not 'it definitely does'.. Ok,but i asked why you thought "it might" and you still haven't given us the answer as to what made you think that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderman Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Just read about the debts ran up by the Plymouth promotion in Speedway Star £291,062.76p!!! I thought that the BSPA had a system in place to check on the financial situation of clubs.? How can a PL club run up that level of debt, With no riders debts apparen?t. A bit of Speedway Star investigation would be appreciated. I know there are legal issues with what could be printed, but surely there is a story there! How about a feature on the costs to run speedway, compete in GP's etc. Seems like a lot of money is being paid out with the reported debts to riders of Indianera etc. £77,000 etc to individual riders, what sort of deals are they on etc -not sure how many meetings they ride in Sweden in a season but thats a high figure to be owed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Just read about the debts ran up by the Plymouth promotion in Speedway Star £291,062.76p!!! I thought that the BSPA had a system in place to check on the financial situation of clubs.? How can a PL club run up that level of debt, With no riders debts apparen?t. A bit of Speedway Star investigation would be appreciated. I know there are legal issues with what could be printed, but surely there is a story there! How about a feature on the costs to run speedway, compete in GP's etc. Seems like a lot of money is being paid out with the reported debts to riders of Indianera etc. £77,000 etc to individual riders, what sort of deals are they on etc -not sure how many meetings they ride in Sweden in a season but thats a high figure to be owed. I think the worm is starting to turn...some of these 'Top' riders are on massive amounts. Whether they all get paid is another thing. you've got to feel sorry for fans of the likes of Plymouth. They see their Club struggle...and then watch some golden balls rider in the GP on tv earning more than their club make. It truly is a farce. I'd be happy for all these top earners to bugger off to Europe and let us start from scratch again. It's got to a point where the uncertainty of Clubs is at the forefront of every season. What fan is going to invest his time and money, getting hooked into a sport or club, knowing it is likely to close in the near future? They are going to look elsewhere, at other activities and hobbies/sports that are sustainable for their long term enjoyment and pleasure. It's only the diehards that are keeping it just afloat at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 I think the worm is starting to turn...some of these 'Top' riders are on massive amounts. Whether they all get paid is another thing. you've got to feel sorry for fans of the likes of Plymouth. They see their Club struggle...and then watch some golden balls rider in the GP on tv earning more than their club make. It truly is a farce. I'd be happy for all these top earners to bugger off to Europe and let us start from scratch again. It's got to a point where the uncertainty of Clubs is at the forefront of every season. What fan is going to invest his time and money, getting hooked into a sport or club, knowing it is likely to close in the near future? They are going to look elsewhere, at other activities and hobbies/sports that are sustainable for their long term enjoyment and pleasure. It's only the diehards that are keeping it just afloat at the moment. I have a certain sympathy with that viewpoint. If Clubs are in such dire straights - why are they employing Riders that they simply cannot afford? Total madness. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 I wonder if the promotors run there family finances the same way as some of them run there clubs. I would hope not. Running a club ,your house or even dare I say the country should be the same principal . Only spend what you can afford 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevePark Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Just read about the debts ran up by the Plymouth promotion in Speedway Star £291,062.76p!!! I thought that the BSPA had a system in place to check on the financial situation of clubs.? How can a PL club run up that level of debt, With no riders debts apparen?t. A bit of Speedway Star investigation would be appreciated. I know there are legal issues with what could be printed, but surely there is a story there! How about a feature on the costs to run speedway, compete in GP's etc. Seems like a lot of money is being paid out with the reported debts to riders of Indianera etc. £77,000 etc to individual riders, what sort of deals are they on etc -not sure how many meetings they ride in Sweden in a season but thats a high figure to be owed. Every club is going to be different (stadium rentals) and points money paid. Also will the BSPA allow us to know how much a referee is paid? On the racecard being printed in the Speedway Star, I really don't get that one. Either you buy a prog (varying from free to £2.50ish), or print your own off the PC/Laptop (basic cost) or buy a Speedway Star (£2.90 currently). For those who don't buy a SS, it's not going to increase the sales of a SS as it's at minimum 40p more than buying a prog., so they aren't going to buy one just because there is a racecard in it, surely? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Every club is going to be different (stadium rentals) and points money paid. Also will the BSPA allow us to know how much a referee is paid? On the racecard being printed in the Speedway Star, I really don't get that one. Either you buy a prog (varying from free to £2.50ish), or print your own off the PC/Laptop (basic cost) or buy a Speedway Star (£2.90 currently). For those who don't buy a SS, it's not going to increase the sales of a SS as it's at minimum 40p more than buying a prog., so they aren't going to buy one just because there is a racecard in it, surely? I'd buy the SS with race card printed, rather than a programme, and printing out my own race card. Because you are actually getting something worth reading, and for the sake of 40p extra, it saves printing out my own. Why pay £2.50 for a programme that is basically a race card, with a load of adverts and week old news? It's not value for money or interesting, when an A4 race card could be printed, and have the same amount of adverts sold, around the outside of the race card, and two full A4 pages on the back. Print that and sell it for a quid...I should imagine the mark up would be more profitable than the costs involved in producing a programme. You could actually do it in house, instead of involving printers etc. £2.90 for approx. 50 pages of Speedway news and stories, and a race card, would be value for money and more interesting to read between heats etc. It would be nice to have the option of all three tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 I wonder if the promotors run there family finances the same way as some of them run there clubs. I would hope not. Running a club ,your house or even dare I say the country should be the same principal . Only spend what you can afford Then clubs end up with a poor team and we know these days that fans won't come to watch a team losing every week. Promoters probably try a fraction to speculate to accumulate. As we know from experience this doesn't work every time, If only supporters could except their promotions limitations and turn out to watch their team regardless of results. I think if the quality of speedway was good they would but as we know that's not always the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjm Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) It would be nice to have the option of all three tbh. The option of all 3 being what sorry? It reads like you are saying it would be nice to have the option to buy a programme, buy a speedway star and print out an A4 race card, an option that already exists. Edited December 8, 2016 by Minor Interest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 The option of all 3 being what sorry? It reads like you are saying it would be nice to have the option to buy a programme, buy a speedway star and print out an A4 race card, an option that already exists. I enjoyed collecting programmes and had a vast selection of them (Britain, Europe and further afield). Wish that I had hung onto them now but due to re-location and lack of space that really wasn't a viable option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 The option of all 3 being what sorry? It reads like you are saying it would be nice to have the option to buy a programme, buy a speedway star and print out an A4 race card, an option that already exists. We have two options right now...buy a programme or print out race card. The third option...SS with race card printed inside. The argument that it would affect people buying programmes is flawed, as people already have the option to print out a race card for free. Some people buy/do all three. Buy SS, buy a programme, print out race card and fill it in, as they don't want to write in their programmes as they collect them. Some buy SS and just print out a race card and don't buy a programme. Some buy a programme and not SS. SS with a generic race card printed in it, is just another option. Wish i'd never mentioned it would piss Clubs off, as in hindsight, it probably wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjm Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) We have two options right now...buy a programme or print out race card. The third option...SS with race card printed inside. The argument that it would affect people buying programmes is flawed, as people already have the option to print out a race card for free. Some people buy/do all three. Buy SS, buy a programme, print out race card and fill it in, as they don't want to write in their programmes as they collect them. Some buy SS and just print out a race card and don't buy a programme. Some buy a programme and not SS. SS with a generic race card printed in it, is just another option. Wish i'd never mentioned it would piss Clubs off, as in hindsight, it probably wouldn't. I find your logic quite flawed, it appears you wish for a bespoke service tailored entirely to what you want, and in doing so want clubs to abolish a revenue stream (programmes) for no apparent reason other than you not being a fan of them? You want the Star to include race card insert. I buy the star but have no interest in that, and I assume many others wouldn’t either? What use is it to me? (same as a programme to you and thus it is ok to poo poo it?) A bit of paper I can print out for free on the internet? That sounds like a way to intentionally dent subscriptions rather than increase them. An overhead the Star would be paying that would be of use to a minimal % of subscribers, blank paper....wow. That is before considering a lot of fans who attend speedway are probably not that fussed for the Star because they don’t support speedway as such, they support the club and track they are attending and want to support that club by buying a programme from them. If they do that the money goes to that club, unlike if they buy a speedway star for a race card, where the money doesn’t go to the club. Or are they are a new fan stuck with an A4 bit of paper with adverts and no info, or having to buy an entire magazine to get a empty race card that they have to fill out every name in, every field, of that bit of paper for an entire meeting and read about other clubs rather than the track they are attending, that is a pretty rank first time experience. I say this without a hint of aggression by the way, and I am simply saying it as part of an engaged discussion, but these ideas sound absolutely terrible, it is removing choice and variety for very little return and actually consciously cutting revenue streams Edited December 8, 2016 by Minor Interest 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaboy279 Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 Because it is mainly 'Old Codgers' who go to Speedway these days. :sad:Where does this old crap come from, you should go to a kent meeting. Whilst there are many seniors watching, and all the old Crusaders fans.But I would estimate that half our crowds are under 40. And wold say at least 75 under 10's are at every meeting. Really don't know where this concept has come from, suppose people will jump on any old bandwagon rather then open thier eyes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 Where does this old crap come from, you should go to a kent meeting. Whilst there are many seniors watching, and all the old Crusaders fans. But I would estimate that half our crowds are under 40. And wold say at least 75 under 10's are at every meeting. Really don't know where this concept has come from, suppose people will jump on any old bandwagon rather then open thier eyes. Kent sounds to be something of an exception then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 Glasgow as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice Of Reason Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 I'm not sure that club sponsors would be too delighted with the news that programmes were going to replaced with a race-card in the SS. That's a great incentive to give them isn't it - when, as a promoter, you are striving to renew your sponsorship deal! Speedway programmes are pretty naff; and they more or less always have been. But I have always bought one, even at away tracks - because it's putting a little bit of extra cash back towards that particular club. Speedway Star - still buy it occasionally - if and when I see it at a track. To be honest, I always much preferred The Speedway Mail. Being produced in Walthamstow, it always covered the Hackney Hawks in much greater depth. I also preferred the Newspaper format more than a magazine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 I find your logic quite flawed, it appears you wish for a bespoke service tailored entirely to what you want, and in doing so want clubs to abolish a revenue stream (programmes) for no apparent reason other than you not being a fan of them? You want the Star to include race card insert. I buy the star but have no interest in that, and I assume many others wouldn’t either? What use is it to me? (same as a programme to you and thus it is ok to poo poo it?) A bit of paper I can print out for free on the internet? That sounds like a way to intentionally dent subscriptions rather than increase them. An overhead the Star would be paying that would be of use to a minimal % of subscribers, blank paper....wow. That is before considering a lot of fans who attend speedway are probably not that fussed for the Star because they don’t support speedway as such, they support the club and track they are attending and want to support that club by buying a programme from them. If they do that the money goes to that club, unlike if they buy a speedway star for a race card, where the money doesn’t go to the club. Or are they are a new fan stuck with an A4 bit of paper with adverts and no info, or having to buy an entire magazine to get a empty race card that they have to fill out every name in, every field, of that bit of paper for an entire meeting and read about other clubs rather than the track they are attending, that is a pretty rank first time experience. I say this without a hint of aggression by the way, and I am simply saying it as part of an engaged discussion, but these ideas sound absolutely terrible, it is removing choice and variety for very little return and actually consciously cutting revenue streams Thanks for your detailed reply. Firstly...I've never said you've aimed aggression...it was aimed at another poster, who's tone was far from friendly. Which I assure you, yours is. If you read my posts...you will see that I've suggested all three options could be offered and people could make their choice. What harm would it do, if the SS was to print a double page spread generic race card in it's weekly production? Fans...as I've now reiterated a few times now, I don't know how you've missed them, would have the choice. A choice of 3 options. 1 Buy a programme 2 Print a race card for free 3 Buy SS with race card printed inside. Or, as I've made pretty clearly in my posts...options of doing all 3 or variations of that. I really can't see what your problem is? I'm not sure how I can make it more clearer tbh. You've clearly missed my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjm Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) I'd get rid of programmes altogether I'm not sure how I can make it more clearer tbh. You've clearly missed my point. Who has a problem? Given you said the above about getting rid of programmes all together I thought your point was that you wanted to get rid of programmes all together, with the removal of programmes all together fans wouldn't have the choice to buy a programme, or at least that is my understanding of what would happen if you got rid of programmes - and thus if you don't actually want to get rid of programmes all together it seems odd to engage in a conversation about getting rid of programmes all together or making the point that you would want get rid of programmes all together, despite your point being that you actually don't want to get rid of programmes all together.... A roundabout of nonsense. Edited December 8, 2016 by Minor Interest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 Who has a problem? Given you said the above about getting rid of programmes all together I thought your point was that you wanted to get rid of programmes all together, with the removal of programmes all together fans wouldn't have the choice to buy a programme, or at least that is my understanding of what would happen if you got rid of programmes - and thus if you don't actually want to get rid of programmes all together it seems odd to engage in a conversation about getting rid of programmes all together or making the point that you would want get rid of programmes all together, despite your point being that you actually don't want to get rid of programmes all together.... A roundabout of nonsense. With respect...the conversation through the thread evolved....people (like you ) said they still enjoy buying programmes. Hence why I added in further posts 'make it all three options'. This isn't a game of scoring points or one upmanship. It's about debating and chatting and putting ideas out there. If someone puts up a good enough reason to keep programmes, then why not take it on board and listen? Like I did...hence saying...'why not have three options for fans'. I personally don't think programmes are good value for money...but you do. I personally would get rid of them...but like you said, people still enjoy buying them. So...I've listened, and reasoned that there is still a market for them. All I've done is asked for there to be a third option available. Anyway...from your last post, it seems you feel smug in some way, of proving a point...hence the emotions added. I'm happy for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjm Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 All I've done is asked for there to be a third option available. An option that already is available. - that's the smug one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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