Gorzow 2017 ....

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

 

I'd strongly say you are way, way out of touch if you think 90% have no interest.Quite what 'baby offset' has to do with fans being interested in the engine TYPE being used and who the tuner is I don't know, you're talking about something entirely different there.

 

You have zero evidence to back up your claims, whereas this forum provides ample evidence of engines and tuners being discussed.

the forum is 1% of general fans at any given time and is no indication of any subject and a baby offset has everything to do with current engines as they are the current engines used by riders although not all , the evidence is there if you ask fans, nobody cares or even knows and my earlier question remains , get fans to name previous GM engines and the 2 top tuners in the world today , nobody knows and nobody cares ,half the fans wouldn't know the difference between long or short stroke and if I'm honest half couldn't tell a jawa from a GTR or a GM if they were put in front of them , speedway is about the rider not the machine, I'm coming from the very background that I'm arguing against and know all about speedway engines (Ive used bloomfeldt bullet , Evitts and others and I used to do my own ) and even I don't care Edited August 27, 2017 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[False dawn]

Laydowns in the 1920's?

http://www.cybermotorcycle.com/archives/speedwaybikes/mckevoy.htm

Don't tell me riders haven't been chasing that technological genie since we took road bikes and went racing.

 

Even the discussion isn't new!!!

 

http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=46346&page=1

 

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

Laydowns in the 1920's?

http://www.cybermotorcycle.com/archives/speedwaybikes/mckevoy.htm

Don't tell me riders haven't been chasing that technological genie since we took road bikes and went racing.

 

Even the discussion isn't new!!!

 

http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=46346&page=1

 

riders are interested but fans are not

[False dawn]

I remember the year when the modern laydowns were banned by the British leagues on cost grounds. I went to Hull with a lot other fans to see Sam and Simon W riding theirs in an invitation event. People were fascinated by the technology.

riders are interested but fans are not

I guess it depends on the fans!

Edited August 27, 2017 by False dawn

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

I remember the year when the modern laydowns were banned by the British leagues on cost grounds. I went to Hull with a lot other fans to see Sam and Simon W riding theirs in an invitation event. People were fascinated by the technology.

when we turned up with the German dogbone engines this year some people had questions but most had heard about GTRs and thought it was a GTR but the majority didn't even notice or care , what they did notice was Adam wasn't scoring enough points on it , even Adam wasn't using them to push technology , he was using them as part of a good business plan , unfortunately the engines were unreliable so the plan fell through

I remember the year when the modern laydowns were banned by the British leagues on cost grounds. I went to Hull with a lot other fans to see Sam and Simon W riding theirs in an invitation event. People were fascinated by the technology.

 

I guess it depends on the fans!

yes some are but the majority especially the female fans couldn't care less Edited August 27, 2017 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[False dawn]

the female fans couldn't care less

They did when Egon turned up on a GM and won the World Champs

[BWitcher]

the forum is 1% of general fans at any given time and is no indication of any subject and a baby offset has everything to do with current engines as they are the current engines used by riders although not all , the evidence is there if you ask fans, nobody cares or even knows and my earlier question remains , get fans to name previous GM engines and the 2 top tuners in the world today , nobody knows and nobody cares ,half the fans wouldn't know the difference between long or short stroke and if I'm honest half couldn't tell a jawa from a GTR or a GM if they were put in front of them , speedway is about the rider not the machine, I'm coming from the very background that I'm arguing against and know all about speedway engines (Ive used bloomfeldt bullet , Evitts and others and I used to do my own ) and even I don't care

 

You seem to be talking about something very different.

 

You are right, very few (although some are) interested in the nuances of the engines or indeed how they work, however they ARE interested in whether a rider is on a GM, Jawa or GTR. Naming 'previous' GM engines is something totally different, simply the make of engine is where the interest lies.

 

I've done as you suggested anyway, I've asked 19 people so far who are speedway fans, every single one of them could name several tuners and the riders that use them. Every single one of them is interested.

Edited August 27, 2017 by BWitcher

[Star Lady]

I couldn't give a tinkers cuss which tuner did which engine. I cannot SEE that, it doesn't entertain me. All it does IMHO is add to the cost. but then I'm simply a fan of 50+ years who remembers JAP vs JAWA, the coming of the Street variations, the invasion of the 4 valve and the demise of the 2 valve. I would add that the QUALITY of the racing has not improved so to my female logical brain what's the point

 

I probably could name a couple of tuners because commentators repeat them ad nauseum, but haven't a clue which rider uses which.

 

If discussions about tuners are necessary to keep fans entertained the product itself is not good enough

[PHILIPRISING]

riders are interested but fans are not

THAT'S true and why Speedway Star has never indulged in technical issues about bikes, engines, etc. There is no appetite for it amongst our readers although knowing which tuner is used by which rider is a snippet worth having.

[waytogo28]

I couldn't give a tinkers cuss which tuner did which engine. I cannot SEE that, it doesn't entertain me. All it does IMHO is add to the cost. but then I'm simply a fan of 50+ years who remembers JAP vs JAWA, the coming of the Street variations, the invasion of the 4 valve and the demise of the 2 valve. I would add that the QUALITY of the racing has not improved so to my female logical brain what's the point

 

I probably could name a couple of tuners because commentators repeat them ad nauseum, but haven't a clue which rider uses which.

 

If discussions about tuners are necessary to keep fans entertained the product itself is not good enough

 

That's where we are now, looking for a more viable, cost effective way to produce as good or better racing - NOT at the very top level of the GP because their motivation is quite different. We must have more entertaining, better quality, close racing in the bread and butter league racing in the UK. Without that the interest of those prepared to pay out for admission to matches will decline further.

[Dodger Blue]

I couldn't give a tinkers cuss which tuner did which engine. I cannot SEE that, it doesn't entertain me. All it does IMHO is add to the cost. but then I'm simply a fan of 50+ years who remembers JAP vs JAWA, the coming of the Street variations, the invasion of the 4 valve and the demise of the 2 valve. I would add that the QUALITY of the racing has not improved so to my female logical brain what's the point

 

I probably could name a couple of tuners because commentators repeat them ad nauseum, but haven't a clue which rider uses which.

 

If discussions about tuners are necessary to keep fans entertained the product itself is not good enough

 

Completely agree!!!!!

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

 

You seem to be talking about something very different.

 

You are right, very few (although some are) interested in the nuances of the engines or indeed how they work, however they ARE interested in whether a rider is on a GM, Jawa or GTR. Naming 'previous' GM engines is something totally different, simply the make of engine is where the interest lies.

 

I've done as you suggested anyway, I've asked 19 people so far who are speedway fans, every single one of them could name several tuners and the riders that use them. Every single one of them is interested.

I said name the top 2 tuners not some tuners as surely if fans were interested they would know that pjr has been knocked of his top spot and has been replaced by 2 others Edited August 28, 2017 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[blocktread]

the forum is 1% of general fans at any given time and is no indication of any subject and a baby offset has everything to do with current engines as they are the current engines used by riders although not all , the evidence is there if you ask fans, nobody cares or even knows and my earlier question remains , get fans to name previous GM engines and the 2 top tuners in the world today , nobody knows and nobody cares ,half the fans wouldn't know the difference between long or short stroke and if I'm honest half couldn't tell a jawa from a GTR or a GM if they were put in front of them , speedway is about the rider not the machine, I'm coming from the very background that I'm arguing against and know all about speedway engines (Ive used bloomfeldt bullet , Evitts and others and I used to do my own ) and even I don't care

Well I for one is interested,there isn't too much information available to fans as to which engine tuner is is being used.I was hoping formula two speedway would connect with the motorcycle crowd but at the recent event at Belle Vue there was no information about which bike had which manufacturers engine installed.Not that it mattered much as they didn't seem reliable.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

THAT'S true and why Speedway Star has never indulged in technical issues about bikes, engines, etc. There is no appetite for it amongst our readers although knowing which tuner is used by which rider is a snippet worth having.

I have that appetite in general ,I can service speedway engines and can spot any change on a bike even on tv , I have read books like "tuning for speed" and I am what you would call a geek when it comes to transit Diesel engines but when it comes to speedway it just doesn't matter ,it's all about the riders ,I dream of a sport with equal engines where tuners don't matter and it's all about the riders but sadly we are getting further and further away from that and all it's doing is pushing up costs , it's completely different to Moto GP where the bike is king , Edited August 28, 2017 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[blocktread]

Just a thought but has a fuel injection system ever been used in speedway?can't think of any.

[waiheke1]

 

It has never been any different, you're kidding yourself if you think so.

 

I'd strongly dispute the claim that 90% of fans couldn't care less either about what engine riders are on, as evidenced by the number of topics regarding such things on this forum.

 

As for your claim he has looked 'uncompetitive' or even 'fairly' uncompetitve, that's simply not been the case. He's simply made the wrong decisions, or races haven't panned out his way on several occasions late on in the meeting.

 

It's interesting to note that BEFORE last night's meeting, if you worked out a 4 ride average for the riders based on the GP's so far you had:

 

Janowski 7.82

Woffinden 7.47

Doyle 7.06

 

 

In one meeting alone one mistake cost Tai about a dozen points. It allowed Doyle to make the semis and meant Tai missed out (or got a poor gate pick) which saw Doyle gain an extra 6 points and Tai miss out on a likely half dozen points. Similar thing happened at Cardiff, but for a handful of errors Tai would be leading the championship.

That said on Saturday he did look quicker than he did all season, but part of that must also be riding with the confidence that your engines are fast enough to do the business.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

Well I for one is interested,there isn't too much information available to fans as to which engine tuner is is being used.I was hoping formula two speedway would connect with the motorcycle crowd but at the recent event at Belle Vue there was no information about which bike had which manufacturers engine installed.Not that it mattered much as they didn't seem reliable.

for me the f2 is the perfect idea but the reality is far from it , I did a day riding the f2s to see for myself if they are the answer to speedways cost , I found they were way to complicated and pretty unreliable and riding wise they are awful as the flywheels are to small for speedway and if your thinking of an entry bike for beginners then a cg125 road engine is a lot cheaper alternative

[PHILIPRISING]

IN answer to an earlier question from The Dean Machine.... after his performance in Mallila, when he barely scored, Doyle had a panic and acquired at least one PJR to use in Gorzow. He rode it in his first two races, didn't fare well, and went back on his Flemming Gravesen engines for the rest of the meeting.

 

Woffinden, now using Gravesen engines, told KT that they are much easier to ride. The PJRs had plenty of power but he (Tai) couldn't use it.

 

Also, apparently some new material was introduced to the Gorzow track over the weekend, very sandy in nature, which didn't produce the sort of racing we have come to expect at the Edward Jancarz stadium.

[False dawn]

THAT'S true and why Speedway Star has never indulged in technical issues about bikes, engines, etc. There is no appetite for it amongst our readers although knowing which tuner is used by which rider is a snippet worth having.

That's a shame because I, for one, would be interested.

I do believe, however, there might be considerable interest in some of the costs involved. The base cost of an engine. A typical service. The cost of parts made from exotic materials such as titanium. Tuning.

If we all knew just what a racing budget looked like (even if some of it was guesswork), there might more of a push to lower costs and put speedway on a more sensible business footing in this country.

 

Just a thought but has a fuel injection system ever been used in speedway?can't think of any.

It is now explicitly outlawed within the SCB's Speedway Regulations:

"10. MOTORCYCLE (Solos) TECHNICAL STANDARDS....

10.9 Carburettors, without any electronic devices fitted, only can be used; i.e. no Fuel Injection."

 

But I don't know about the past. I bet there was a time when the rules didn't cover this and somebody tried it.

Edited August 28, 2017 by False dawn

[OveFundinFan]

Many years ago I remember Wal Phillips developed fuel injection system.

Dont know how successful it was, or whether it was a failure or whether it was banned.