The Premiership Cake Shop

[Villain]

All this thread needs is a bit of fruitcake.

Starman where are you?

[BurntFaceMan]

I fully disagree and the reason why is I may as well say the same reply to another poster so this has been copied and pasted.

 

I am at a loss to see what has been done that would encourage an increase in attendances

 

To be fair, I think every promotion has tried something different from half prices offers, £1 entry, advertising at tourist information, advertising their own business with their own shop in shopping centres, getting children involved in extra events, free gifts, town advertisement boards, websites, leaflets, celebrity turn outs and still speedway has no formula of attracting people.

 

Look at what's around. There is nothing that can be done. It is a minority sport and still I bet half the country don't even know what it is. It's a marmite sport. It is not in our society like it was in the 60s and 70s and those days are long gone. People have so much other choice on a Monday night such as other sports, using media or sitting round the box saving their hard earned.

 

If anyone could come up with ideas to solve it, I am sure the promotions would pay you to get 3-4000 bum on seats every week.

 

The only way I see it happening is a constant hefty admission drop but it is just not viable.

 

Just an honest opinion.

 

 

So as I have stated, please give the promoters what they could genuinely do to increase spectators and this post proves promotions have been trying because I have seen it with my own eyes around the country for the best part of 30-40 years.

 

I don't think that makes a lot of sense! You say the promoters have been working their backsides off with every scheme under the sun for the past 30-40 years, but you think half the country doesn't even know what speedway is? That can't be very good promoting then can it?! I'd put it to you that far more than half of the country don't know what speedway is, I'd go as far as to say that figure is probably closer to 80 or 90%!

 

It doesn't need some of the promoters making some form of effort at some point throughout the season. It needs all the promoters making an effort, together, throughout the season. It requires a solid and consistent social media campaign. It requires more fan interaction, more transparency, more press releases, and more effort put into the product.

 

It is absolutely not a lost sport. It's only a minority sport because nothing is done to promote it.

[Joe Beevers]

I don't think that makes a lot of sense! You say the promoters have been working their backsides off with every scheme under the sun for the past 30-40 years, but you think half the country doesn't even know what speedway is? That can't be very good promoting then can it?! I'd put it to you that far more than half of the country don't know what speedway is, I'd go as far as to say that figure is probably closer to 80 or 90%!

 

It doesn't need some of the promoters making some form of effort at some point throughout the season. It needs all the promoters making an effort, together, throughout the season. It requires a solid and consistent social media campaign. It requires more fan interaction, more transparency, more press releases, and more effort put into the product.

 

It is absolutely not a lost sport. It's only a minority sport because nothing is done to promote it.

It makes perfect sense.

 

Ask 100 people in a survey who would want to go amd watch 4 men motorcycling round a dirt track for a) Free 5 pound or c) 15 pound.

 

I bet nearly 100 would not even go for free as they have the gym to go to or a tv programme to watch or an internet to use.

 

Why would anyone go and watch a minor motor sport unless it was a big event that was in a big stadium, big bands, big fireworks and a once a year 'day out' in the warm with a loud atmosphere hence the GP at Cardiff and usually that is general motor sport fans who go but recently it has stupidly coincided with a British MotoGP or an F1.

 

You could advertise and market sushi to the over 80s of this country or advertise and market Barbara Streisand's music to all the people under 25 in this country and the fact is even listening to her music blasting on a radio in a youth club, still isn't going to get young people through paying 20 pound through the turnstiles (although irrelevant to the point I believe she charges $1000 to watch her live).

 

Another point I make is speedway was at it's height of fan base probably from the 60s and 70s. Do you think they advertised the sport on every street corner back than.

 

It worked because it was fashoinable. There were clubs in London and World Finals. It was cheap entertainment and good value for money and there was no internet or much else better to do on a night out.

 

Nowadays I compare to Bullseye. It had great popularity back in the day but the it lost interest in the modern times and way of thinking and stepped aside for newer entertainment shows like the rubbish they show now.

 

As I said before, if you had a speedway club, what would you do different that has been done to try to promote.

 

I do agree that some promotions could try harder like others.

[Humphrey Appleby]

It is absolutely not a lost sport. It's only a minority sport because nothing is done to promote it.

To re-iterate that promotion is something of a waste of time without a reasonable product. People will quickly realise it and never come again, and you've done even more damage. The problem of course is how to improve the product when there's so little money around, far less talent to work out how to improve it in the first place.

 

I think no-one would disagree that the marketing efforts at every level of the sport are pretty poor, the use of social media and viral marketing is pretty non-existent, and anyone even trying to push the sport on the back of their own efforts is hamstrung by the 'commercial rights' holders. Okay, the latter isn't unusual in mainstream sports where the commercial rights holders have a string of marketable products they want to protect, but quite laughable in a sport that hardly anyone has heard of and has virtually nothing to market.

 

The reality though, is that for most promoters the sport is pretty much part-time hobby, and what credible marketeer on earth would would want to touch speedway for the money the sport could afford? A sport watched by an ageing demographic with down-at-heel image - if it still has any image left at all.

 

The best hope is for some young up-and-coming individual to chance upon the sport and see it as a way of making their name, but then you'd still have to deal with the establishment and the rights holders.

[SteveLyric2]

I've said this before but Speedway's promoters and administrators really need to decide what they want speedway to be. Once that is clear and agreed they can then identify their target audience(s).

 

Is speedway really still a 'family-friendly' sport?! If so its too highly priced for families and in any case what do families actually attend together nowadays??

 

Or is speedway a 'dangerous, thrills-and-spills' spectacle with 'gladiatorial' superstars that might appeal to today's 'thrillseekers', eg the 16 -30 age group many of whom wouldn't be seen dead going out with the rest of their 'family' to anything!​?!

 

Once that has been decided, draw up a specialised national target marketing campaign which can be 'tweaked' to appeal to potential local audiences.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Skidder1

[Glennylion]

I don't think the problem is so much getting new punters through the door, the problem is keeping them. If the product doesn't come over well when they turn up for the first time, they'll never come back, and that's quite aside from pitching things at a suitable price that will encourage them to return regularly.

 

I think getting people to try a poor product is worse than doing nothing at all, because you'll never persuade them to try it again.

I can see what you are saying regarding keeping punters and whilst in a sense there is little point in attracting new punters if you can't retain them I think that applies more to the current situation rather than over the last few years.

 

Without a flow of new and future punters the revenue levels have dropped. The standard reaction has been to reduce costs and milk the current revenue streams, ie the usual punters who have been going for years.

 

As a result the product has become weaker and the charges have increased. The punter that goes week in week out therefore is paying more for a product that they do not desire. After a while the punter decides not getting value so calls it a day or is selective. Crowds and revenue drop, product becomes weaker and price goes up.

 

It's an ever decreasing pool of current punters and the lack of promotion and attaching new punters is a direct cause of the mess it's in hence the drop in crowds.

 

Promoting and marketing of any business is a daily and ongoing project. It's not a start if the season matter or a once every now and then when you have time. New customers and punters are the lifeblood of any business that is not in rundown...which speedway sadly appears to be.

 

Until there is an injection of more revenue through gates then the product will become weaker and crowds will dwindle even more.

 

The cycle needs to be stopped urgently.

 

Either improve the product AND market or market and then improve. If a new punter enjoys what is available now he or she will stay for an improved product.

 

Either way a professional coherent promotion wide and sport wide marketing programme is a must. It can't solely be left to promoters with day jobs to raise awareness. This is failing.

[BurntFaceMan]

It makes perfect sense.

 

Ask 100 people in a survey who would want to go amd watch 4 men motorcycling round a dirt track for a) Free 5 pound or c) 15 pound.

 

I bet nearly 100 would not even go for free as they have the gym to go to or a tv programme to watch or an internet to use.

 

Why would anyone go and watch a minor motor sport unless it was a big event that was in a big stadium, big bands, big fireworks and a once a year 'day out' in the warm with a loud atmosphere hence the GP at Cardiff and usually that is general motor sport fans who go but recently it has stupidly coincided with a British MotoGP or an F1.

 

You could advertise and market sushi to the over 80s of this country or advertise and market Barbara Streisand's music to all the people under 25 in this country and the fact is even listening to her music blasting on a radio in a youth club, still isn't going to get young people through paying 20 pound through the turnstiles (although irrelevant to the point I believe she charges $1000 to watch her live).

 

Another point I make is speedway was at it's height of fan base probably from the 60s and 70s. Do you think they advertised the sport on every street corner back than.

 

It worked because it was fashoinable. There were clubs in London and World Finals. It was cheap entertainment and good value for money and there was no internet or much else better to do on a night out.

 

Nowadays I compare to Bullseye. It had great popularity back in the day but the it lost interest in the modern times and way of thinking and stepped aside for newer entertainment shows like the rubbish they show now.

 

As I said before, if you had a speedway club, what would you do different that has been done to try to promote.

 

I do agree that some promotions could try harder like others.

 

"As I said before, if you had a speedway club, what would you do different that has been done to try to promote."

 

This isn't something that can be sorted at club level, it would need to be a sport wide change. I will tell you what I'd do if I were in charge of the BSPA.

 

If a team wants to compete in the league they will need to agree to new press and marketing rules. I'd make it so that each team contributed financially to a Speedway marketing fund. I'd hire a small team of marketing and social media professionals to manage the social media, website and digital marketing campaigns of each and every club. I'd overhaul the entire image of speedway and make it coherent throughout the league. New logo, new motto, new catchphrase. I'd require Sky to allow us to use video clips for promotional purposes on social media (YouTube clips, compilations, snapchats). I'd require every team promoter, manager and rider to participate in press conferences, interviews and fan interactions. I'd use these new publicity opportunities (press conferences, interviews, social media followers) to attract new sponsors to the sport. The social media reach alone on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube would be incredibly attractive to all sorts of sponsors. I'd make every club offer free admission to the under 18's.

 

And that's just the first year. Every year that the marketing team increase attendances, we'll increase the financial commitment that each club must make to this fund.

 

I come from a marketing background and I've worked with businesses that have gone from zero to hero in a matter of months. You may think that promoters are doing all they can, but I can assure you that they've not even scratched the surface. If the powers that be are out there somewhere, reach out to me and I'll come and meet you for a chat.

 

Oh, and I thought this all up in 5 minutes. I could elaborate on these ideas for hours and hours. There will be problems, but nothing that can't be overcome. Imagine what a couple of us sat around the table with the promoters could do in 8 hours?

 

I'm not saying Speedway is going to be up there with football, it's not going to get anywhere near. But doubling attendances across the UK over the next 3 years? Absolutely.

Edited November 18, 2016 by BurntFaceMan

[Humphrey Appleby]

I come from a marketing background and I've worked with businesses that have gone from zero to hero in a matter of months. You may think that promoters are doing all they can, but I can assure you that they've not even scratched the surface.

Yes, but with respect, are you working with new businesses and/or ones with good products, or trying to work with old declining family businesses?

 

I don't disagree that the sport couldn't be turned around so some extent, but I think you're up against too many hobbyists and egotists that find it hard to come to agreement on anything, too many vested interests, and a sport that's so under-capitalised that it can't think anything more than a season ahead. Even the SGP, which is supposed to be the top level of the sport and is much more straightforward to package and sell than league speedway, struggles in all but a couple of countries and has found it difficult to find substantial sponsorship.

 

I don't claim to have the answers and good luck if you think you can take it on, but until the sport tries to move forward together instead of the better promotions trying to shaft everyone else, then I think marketing efforts are largely futile because the basic product isn't right.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Humphrey Appleby

[Starman2006]

And here is one of speedways problems, getting something for nothing....

 

Whether it's track staff, announcers, machine examiners, turnstyle operators, programme sellers, etc, etc, etc......

 

There's way to much "I will do it for free" in Speedway..... And one of the consequences, is quality/reliability/accountability/consistency and portrayal of the sport to "Joe Public"

 

It's supposed to be a professional sport, ok, so the riders are professional, but the majority of support staff/services are amateur and volunteers.. most only get admission to the racing for free..

 

I am not knocking volunteers, as I am one myself, but it doesn't help the sport look professional.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But clubs are not in a position to pay every Tom Dick and Harry. There are many volunteers i know at Poole that have been there sinse the day dot, but i do feel that volunteers should be Given something at the end of the season in a way of saying thank you. and not just thank you. And i would bet there are many clubs volunteers who dont even get that.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Starman2006

[BurntFaceMan]

Yes, but with respect, are you working with new businesses and/or ones with good products, or trying to work with old declining family businesses?

 

I don't disagree that the sport couldn't be turned around so some extent, but I think you're up against too many hobbyists and egotists that find it hard to come to agreement on anything, too many vested interests, and a sport that's so under-capitalised that it can't think anything more than a season ahead. Even the SGP, which is supposed to be the top level of the sport and is much more straightforward to package and sell than league speedway, struggles in all but a couple of countries and has found it difficult to find substantial sponsorship.

 

I don't claim to have the answers and good luck if you think you can take it on, but until the sport tries to move forward together instead of the better promotions trying to shaft everyone else, then I think marketing efforts are largely futile because the basic product isn't right.

 

Nope, absolutely not. I'm working with new business with good products, absolutely nothing to do with motorsport. So from that front, I certainly can't claim to be experienced, but I do know the sport very well and I do feel I have a very good knack for marketing.

The product isn't right, but the quality of the product and the quality of the marketing will grow hand in hand.

[WembleyLion]

British cakes went downhill and Polish cakes became so huge and famous it became there national sweet treat where being more a modern society decided to try different types of cake such as a Danish or a Stollen or were also watchful of their weight and looked for a more inexpensive but healthier option like an Alpro yoghurt or a cream cheese cracker.

 

Basically British cakes cannot compete.

 

If think Director 1 may have run a very successful cake operation in Poland previously and used top class ingredients which the customers really enjoyed and the business was very profitable especially as he didn't always pay his employees. Some of them he even made come in on their day off to practice. He generally looked after his top employees though who he paid cash in hand!

 

If think Director 2 had a similar problem in the UK over paying his employees but that was because he couldn't make any money to begin with.

[Joe Beevers]

"As I said before, if you had a speedway club, what would you do different that has been done to try to promote."

 

This isn't something that can be sorted at club level, it would need to be a sport wide change. I will tell you what I'd do if I were in charge of the BSPA.

 

If a team wants to compete in the league they will need to agree to new press and marketing rules. I'd make it so that each team contributed financially to a Speedway marketing fund. I'd hire a small team of marketing and social media professionals to manage the social media, website and digital marketing campaigns of each and every club. I'd overhaul the entire image of speedway and make it coherent throughout the league. New logo, new motto, new catchphrase. I'd require Sky to allow us to use video clips for promotional purposes on social media (YouTube clips, compilations, snapchats). I'd require every team promoter, manager and rider to participate in press conferences, interviews and fan interactions. I'd use these new publicity opportunities (press conferences, interviews, social media followers) to attract new sponsors to the sport. The social media reach alone on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube would be incredibly attractive to all sorts of sponsors. I'd make every club offer free admission to the under 18's.

 

And that's just the first year. Every year that the marketing team increase attendances, we'll increase the financial commitment that each club must make to this fund.

 

I come from a marketing background and I've worked with businesses that have gone from zero to hero in a matter of months. You may think that promoters are doing all they can, but I can assure you that they've not even scratched the surface. If the powers that be are out there somewhere, reach out to me and I'll come and meet you for a chat.

 

Oh, and I thought this all up in 5 minutes. I could elaborate on these ideas for hours and hours. There will be problems, but nothing that can't be overcome. Imagine what a couple of us sat around the table with the promoters could do in 8 hours?

 

I'm not saying Speedway is going to be up there with football, it's not going to get anywhere near. But doubling attendances across the UK over the next 3 years? Absolutely.

You seemed to have glossed over the majority of points, I have made in my last quite lengthy post.

 

I think your slightly missing my point of you can advertise the life out of the product but that doesn't mean people will go.

 

Most of the things you talked about are finacially unviable like hiring teams of professionals and pouring in money into marketing funds. I would guess 85% of teams today make a loss running a club so can really not afford to do this unlike your business.

 

The biggest advertising in British League Speedway is Sky Sports and I think they do a reasonable job of TV adverts and showing club sponsorship and a lot of money comes from promotions attaining sponsorship and this is what is probably more needed to be marketable and advertised more than the fanbase because as I said before fans will be ifs and buts over cost, weather and a tiny portion over quality of product amd because the product is what I call Bullseyed.

 

Advertise the sponsorship well and get the word out to more sponsors. I think that's what Poole do and why they are a popular club to sign for? They don't aim at the fanbase because it is pointless. Just the sponsorship.

But clubs are not in a position to pay every Tom Dick and Harry. There are many volunteers i know at Poole that have been there sinse the day dot, but i do feel that volunteers should be Given something at the end of the season in a way of saying thank you. and not just thank you. And i would bet there are many clubs volunteers who dont even get that.

Why should they be given something when they get given free speedway all year round.

 

For that small amount of work of track maintenance each week, it is saving them £500 a season unlike the many fans who pay to go and watch.

 

The fans should be given at least a fireworks display or a free for kids by every club with the last match of the season.

 

I'm not saying Speedway is going to be up there with football, it's not going to get anywhere near. But doubling attendances across the UK over the next 3 years? Absolutely.

I don't think even football or this Pokemon fad could do double attendances.

 

I know this debate could continue forever and we both agree to disagree but I would love you to prove me wrong and if you do suggest your ideas to club promotions, please let me know the outcome.

 

If I am being honest how I see it, I am the realist and you are the optimist.

[theblueboy]

Speedway, to me, is like a lardy cake.

 

When I were a lad, lardy cake was huge, fresh, full of sugar, fruit and sticky stuff. A treat and a half. I loved it.

 

Now, you get a small piece, dry, tasteless, the odd bit of fruit, no sticky stuff and bloody expensive.

 

Occasionally, you get a bit that reminds you how good it was but it will never be the same...

Edited November 19, 2016 by theblueboy

[SteveLyric2]

The trouble is for many lardy cake has been replaced by 'mardy cake'!!

[TMW]

Maybe we tend to think that Sara Lee or Mr Kipling will be better as we have heard of them but you are only paying for the name in actual fact No Frills can be just as good and cheaper

Edited November 20, 2016 by TMW

[BurntFaceMan]

Maybe we tend to think that Sara Lee or Mr Kipling will be better as we have heard of them but you are only paying for the name in actual fact No Frills can be just as good and cheaper

 

Sara Lee is definitely better. Get your taste buds looked at.

[The Voice Of Reason]

Not sure about cakes; but I once fell through the ceiling at a French bakery.

 

I ended up in a lot of 'pain'.

 

[Agrotron]

Where is my morning Pain Au Chocolat??

[pugwash]

Quote from un-named rider: "Let them Eat Space Cake".

[Shale Searcher]

Well, it's getting late in the day in the "Premiership Cake Shop"

 

The only cakes left on the shelves now are as follows....

 

1) the ones that have been reserved by the early bird shoppers (didn't want to carry um around town all day, will pay and collect later that day)

 

2) A couple of specialist cakes, celebratory types, etc..

 

3) A few "happy shopper" plain sponge cakes..

 

4) A few "slight" seconds..

 

5) A "handful" of fresh cream cakes, now going a bit watery...

 

 

So, will they end up in the bin? Be collected? Bought on the cheap?