The Premiership Cake Shop

[BurntFaceMan]

Comparing Speedway now to the way is was back in 70's, are oceans apart, and whatever way you look at it, them days will never come back.

 

I don't believe that at all

[Glennylion]

Yeah but what about the cakes???

[Joe Beevers]

British cakes went downhill and Polish cakes became so huge and famous it became there national sweet treat where being more a modern society decided to try different types of cake such as a Danish or a Stollen or were also watchful of their weight and looked for a more inexpensive but healthier option like an Alpro yoghurt or a cream cheese cracker.

 

Basically British cakes cannot compete.

[BurntFaceMan]

British cakes went downhill and Polish cakes became so huge and famous it became there national sweet treat where being more a modern society decided to try different types of cake such as a Danish or a Stollen or were also watchful of their weight and looked for a more inexpensive but healthier option like an Alpro yoghurt or a cream cheese cracker.

 

Basically British cakes cannot compete.

 

Of course they can compete. We've just got to stop serving the customers saw dust instead of flour and actually make an effort to sell the bloody things. I don't know where on earth the word "promoter" came from because these guys don't do a bloody thing!

 

Any boxing fans in? Every single day the boxing promoters and the fighters themselves are being interviewed on a YouTube video somewhere, giving their opinion on current affairs and slinging mud at other fighters! They have press conferences for big matches, they talk the talk, they drum up some excitement. It gives fans something to watch and follow and get behind. Speedway promoters seem to disappear off the bloody planet in between races and seasons! The fans wait for some dribble of news to come out (usually from the rider himself) about who has signed and that's it.

 

The product itself can easily attract thousands of new fans, but the quality needs to be improved the promoters need to get off their lazy backsides and make a concerted effort to promote it.

[Jonny the spud]

 

Of course they can compete. We've just got to stop serving the customers saw dust instead of flour and actually make an effort to sell the bloody things. I don't know where on earth the word "promoter" came from because these guys don't do a bloody thing!

 

Any boxing fans in? Every single day the boxing promoters and the fighters themselves are being interviewed on a YouTube video somewhere, giving their opinion on current affairs and slinging mud at other fighters! They have press conferences for big matches, they talk the talk, they drum up some excitement. It gives fans something to watch and follow and get behind. Speedway promoters seem to disappear off the bloody planet in between races and seasons! The fans wait for some dribble of news to come out (usually from the rider himself) about who has signed and that's it.

 

The product itself can easily attract thousands of new fans, but the quality needs to be improved the promoters need to get off their lazy backsides and make a concerted effort to promote it.

So much this !! People are saying we need a Barry Hearn type promotor…. Even a copy of Barry would be a good start. The online / social media world has moved on massively in the last decade but still "promotors" think that 2 posters on a local roundabout will bring people in .

 

Online marketing is the biggest advertising tool in the world but the old codgers who run speedway are still living in the 50's.

[BurntFaceMan]

So much this !! People are saying we need a Barry Hearn type promotor…. Even a copy of Barry would be a good start. The online / social media world has moved on massively in the last decade but still "promotors" think that 2 posters on a local roundabout will bring people in .

 

Online marketing is the biggest advertising tool in the world but the old codgers who run speedway are still living in the 50's.

 

Every club should pay a small fee to a marketing budget. How much each club should pay could be worked out based on some sort of performance indicator (for example, attendances). That budget should then be used to pay for a very small team who will become the British Speedway Marketing Team. Their job would be to create one big social media campaign for the entire league. They would manage each clubs website, social media presence and they could organise online content.

 

A little support from Go Speed and Sky in securing the rights to promo clips, some effort from the promoters and riders to get behind interviews and all of a sudden you're looking at an exciting sport (and let's be honest, speedway is exciting!) that actually has reach.

I know these things cost money, but they needn't cost a lot. My entire career is based in web development, marketing and social media. I'm sure there are more fans like me who would offer their services entirely free of charge if we knew we had the support of the promoters behind us. It certainly would not take long with a team of the right people pushing in the same direction to build a nice solid base for the future.

Edited November 17, 2016 by BurntFaceMan

[Shale Searcher]

 

Every club should pay a small fee to a marketing budget. How much each club should pay could be worked out based on some sort of performance indicator (for example, attendances). That budget should then be used to pay for a very small team who will become the British Speedway Marketing Team. Their job would be to create one big social media campaign for the entire league. They would manage each clubs website, social media presence and they could organise online content.

 

A little support from Go Speed and Sky in securing the rights to promo clips, some effort from the promoters and riders to get behind interviews and all of a sudden you're looking at an exciting sport (and let's be honest, speedway is exciting!) that actually has reach.

 

I know these things cost money, but they needn't cost a lot. My entire career is based in web development, marketing and social media. I'm sure there are more fans like me who would offer their services entirely free of charge if we knew we had the support of the promoters behind us. It certainly would not take long with a team of the right people pushing in the same direction to build a nice solid base for the future.

And here is one of speedways problems, getting something for nothing....

 

Whether it's track staff, announcers, machine examiners, turnstyle operators, programme sellers, etc, etc, etc......

 

There's way to much "I will do it for free" in Speedway..... And one of the consequences, is quality/reliability/accountability/consistency and portrayal of the sport to "Joe Public"

 

It's supposed to be a professional sport, ok, so the riders are professional, but the majority of support staff/services are amateur and volunteers.. most only get admission to the racing for free..

 

I am not knocking volunteers, as I am one myself, but it doesn't help the sport look professional.....

 

 

 

 

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I have set up a trellis table next to "Elite Cakes" I will be selling the same cakes as the shop, except I have no actual shop.. ok, the cakes will be identical, except the packaging will be plain paper bags, no fancy boxes, or bags, no tray of "tasters" on my trellis, no till, no staff, no cake menu, I will sell my "Elite Cake" knock-offs just a penny or two cheaper, but you'll have to queue in the rain/snow, you won't get a receipt, the cakes will be fresh'ish, but you won't know for definate, if they are "baked today"

 

I was hoping to make a killing, but it's my second day now, and I'm not getting enough customers, so, do I buy a gazebo, for a bit of cover for potential customers, or do I sell slightly sub standard cakes, or past their sell by date cakes, and drag them in that way? The "Elite Cake" shop next door, is doing well, they are giving free coffee with their cakes and and they are packing them in, perhaps I will reduce the price of my cakes, that'll bring um in, won't it........??

Edited November 17, 2016 by Shale Searcher

[Tyrion]

And here is one of speedways problems, getting something for nothing....

 

Whether it's track staff, announcers, machine examiners, turnstyle operators, programme sellers, etc, etc, etc......

 

There's way to much "I will do it for free" in Speedway..... And one of the consequences, is quality/reliability/accountability/consistency and portrayal of the sport to "Joe Public"

 

It's supposed to be a professional sport, ok, so the riders are professional, but the majority of support staff/services are amateur and volunteers.. most only get admission to the racing for free..

 

I am not knocking volunteers, as I am one myself, but it doesn't help the sport look professional.....

 

 

 

 

----------------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

I have set up a trellis table next to "Elite Cakes" I will be selling the same cakes as the shop, except I have no actual shop.. ok, the cakes will be identical, except the packaging will be plain paper bags, no fancy boxes, or bags, no tray of "tasters" on my trellis, no till, no staff, no cake menu, I will sell my "Elite Cake" knock-offs just a penny or two cheaper, but you'll have to queue in the rain/snow, you won't get a receipt, the cakes will be fresh'ish, but you won't know for definate, if they are "baked today"

 

I was hoping to make a killing, but it's my second day now, and I'm not getting enough customers, so, do I but a gazebo, for a bit of cover for potential customers, or do I sell slightly sub standard cakes, or past their sell by date cakes, and drag them in that way? The "Elite Cake" shop next door, is doing well, they are giving free coffee with their cakes and and they are packing them in, perhaps I will reduce the price of my cakes, that'll bring um in, won't it........??

 

That doesn’t even begin to make sense, nor do I think it is a perception anyone would actually have.

[Dave Jones]

I think the reason that the cake is so poor now is due to the fact that the producers just don't have enough dough.

[Vincent Blachshadow]

I think the supply of cakes went out the window some time ago. The current thinking seems to be the reverse of the old Marie Antoinette line - 'let them eat bread'.

[A ORLOV]

Passed a Polish shop yesterday and the cakes looked wonderful. The only problem was that you could only buy one if you limited your cake purchases from only two other countries.

[The H Man]

I still find it amazing that the sport hasn't managed to attract a title sponsor for the Elite League or whatever it's going to be called moving forward.

 

The amount of coverage on Sky Sports makes it an attractive proposition to any sponsor, with the viewing figures continuing to hold up however poor the product on show may be!

 

If Netball could attract Soft-drinks company ZEO to pay more than £100,000 in 2015 and then get a damn site more from Vitality in 2016, you have wonder who on earth the BSPA are engaging (if anyone) to bring a title sponsor to Speedway.

[dj350z]

Passed a Polish shop yesterday and the cakes looked wonderful. The only problem was that you could only buy one if you limited your cake purchases from only two other countries.

 

.........and quite often the Polish baker insists on the ingredients are not used to bake other nations cakes!!

[Humphrey Appleby]

I think it's more likely that people just don't like cakes anymore because of changing tastes, or not enough to go out of their way to the store which only opens occasionally and then not at regular times.

 

The stores should really have closed by now, but a few manage to keep going thanks to volunteers and charitable donations. However, a few old people still reminisce about when the stores had the best cakes, and can't understand why they still can't make the best cakes.

 

The problem is they're not prepared to pay any more money or change their routine as to when they go to the store. And young people just don't like cake anymore because they prefer fizzy pop sold by a grinning American in one store.

 

So the only way to get better cake is for the volunteers to keep putting their hands in their pockets until one day there's no more money, and no-one prepared to run the store anymore. So the store closes and no-one has any more cake ever again. Amen...

Edited November 17, 2016 by Humphrey Appleby

[BurntFaceMan]

I think it's more likely that people just don't like cakes anymore because of changing tastes, or not enough to go out of their way to the store which only opens occasionally and then not at regular times.

 

The stores should really have closed by now, but a few manage to keep going thanks to volunteers and charitable donations. However, a few old people still reminisce about when the stores had the best cakes, and can't understand why they still can't make the best cakes.

 

The problem is they're not prepared to pay anymore money not change their routine as to when they go to the store. And young people just don't like cake anymore because they prefer fizzy pop sold by a grinning American in one store.

 

So the only way to get better cake is for the volunteers to keep putting their hands in their pockets until one day there's no more money, and no-one prepared to run the store anymore. So the store closes and no-one has any more cake ever again. Amen...

 

I appreciate that some people feel this way, but you're completely wrong. (That wasn't meant to sound nasty)

 

By your logic that suggests that if we went and spoke to 100 random strangers on a high street and asked them "What do you think of Speedway?", then the majority would reply with "I don't like it". However, I think what the majority of them will actually reply with is "What is Speedway?"!

 

And there lies your problem. It's a promotion and marketing issue, not the fact that people simply don't like Speedway. You can't dislike something you've never heard of.

If every single person in the country was forced to watch a few speedway races, the grandstands would be packed out at every club every single week. They can't turn up if they haven't a clue it even exists.

[Humphrey Appleby]

 

I appreciate that some people feel this way, but you're completely wrong. (That wasn't meant to sound nasty)

 

By your logic that suggests that if we went and spoke to 100 random strangers on a high street and asked them "What do you think of Speedway?", then the majority would reply with "I don't like it". However, I think what the majority of them will actually reply with is "What is Speedway?"!

 

And there lies your problem. It's a promotion and marketing issue, not the fact that people simply don't like Speedway. You can't dislike something you've never heard of.

 

If every single person in the country was forced to watch a few speedway races, the grandstands would be packed out at every club every single week. They can't turn up if they haven't a clue it even exists.

I'd suggest that most people started liking cakes because their family and/or friends introduced them to them. The cake shops never felt they had to advertise their products because enough people bought them to make a living, and couldn't really afford it anyway as they only rented their premises. In fact, most cake shops didn't plan to be around for long, and for the others if the occasional cake shop went under, well they felt that was less competition.

 

Over time though, less and less people bought cakes and there were therefore fewer people to introduce others to cakes. Young people also found the cakes a bit old fashioned with a lot of dirt and grit in them that got on their fashionable new outfits, not to mention that the shops and packaging hadn't really changed from the 1950s. They were just not cool places to be seen in.

 

So the industry became under capitalised and by the time it realised that 'something must be done', it could no longer afford the necessary improvements or the high fees that would be charged by a competent marketing agency to encourage the public to eat more cakes.

 

The industry also couldn't agree on when to open its shops, what they should look like, and what type of cakes it should sell. It would change the ingredients every year, and move some of them around from shop-to-shop so the customers never quite knew what they were getting (assuming the shop actually opened that week).

 

So even if the shops could afford the marketing, they'd put off most of their new customers from buying cakes again...

[Joe Beevers]

Of course they can compete. We've just got to stop serving the customers saw dust instead of flour and actually make an effort to sell the bloody things. I don't know where on earth the word "promoter" came from because these guys don't do a bloody thing!

 

Any boxing fans in? Every single day the boxing promoters and the fighters themselves are being interviewed on a YouTube video somewhere, giving their opinion on current affairs and slinging mud at other fighters! They have press conferences for big matches, they talk the talk, they drum up some excitement. It gives fans something to watch and follow and get behind. Speedway promoters seem to disappear off the bloody planet in between races and seasons! The fans wait for some dribble of news to come out (usually from the rider himself) about who has signed and that's it.

 

The product itself can easily attract thousands of new fans, but the quality needs to be improved the promoters need to get off their lazy backsides and make a concerted effort to promote it.

I fully disagree and the reason why is I may as well say the same reply to another poster so this has been copied and pasted.

 

 

 

Posted 08 November 2016 - 08:57 AM

wealdstone, on 06 Nov 2016 - 07:45 AM, said:

I am at a loss to see what has been done that would encourage an increase in attendances

 

To be fair, I think every promotion has tried something different from half prices offers, £1 entry, advertising at tourist information, advertising their own business with their own shop in shopping centres, getting children involved in extra events, free gifts, town advertisement boards, websites, leaflets, celebrity turn outs and still speedway has no formula of attracting people.

 

Look at what's around. There is nothing that can be done. It is a minority sport and still I bet half the country don't even know what it is. It's a marmite sport. It is not in our society like it was in the 60s and 70s and those days are long gone. People have so much other choice on a Monday night such as other sports, using media or sitting round the box saving their hard earned.

 

If anyone could come up with ideas to solve it, I am sure the promotions would pay you to get 3-4000 bum on seats every week.

 

The only way I see it happening is a constant hefty admission drop but it is just not viable.

 

Just an honest opinion.

 

 

So as I have stated, please give the promoters what they could genuinely do to increase spectators and this post proves promotions have been trying because I have seen it with my own eyes around the country for the best part of 30-40 years.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Joe Beevers

[Glennylion]

Sorry Joe, disagree with a lot of that. Speaking as it were from a Leicester point of view, virtually zero promoting has taken place. In the 1 real occasion that there was some promotional work, discounted offer, vouchers in the paper weeks in advance, the queue was massive and the start had to be delayed.

 

My 2 kids have been to 3 schools within 3 miles of the track and only on 1 occasion did the promotion visit the school. That resulted in my son going for the 1 and only time. It was free but I get the feeling that he felt it was his decision rather than me trying to get him to go.

 

I compare 2 similar sized minority sports in Leicester. Speedway and basketball. They are light years apart in respect of promoting, media presence and accessibility.

 

BBC local radio speaks to the coach every week (and also is in the studio every week they don't have match on a Friday), the interview players, again in the studio, talk about the local area. The players are introduced at half time at Leicester city. Their website is modern, easy to follow and has content. They use social media to get the message out and are in all local publications weekly....oh and it's cheaper

 

Speedway. Website is from early internet days and hasn't been touched other than to remove limited content.

 

Riders always busy elsewhere and have limited if any links locally so there's no interview material to connect locally.

 

I think that one of the legacies of doubling up means that more than any other sport,the home track is a once a week stop off for wages with no affiliation to the club, fans or area.

 

I have never understood half or more empty stadiums or grounds with 20 schools with 3 miles. Surely such a catchment is music to any marketing man's dreams.

 

If kids are the future encourage them. Get into 5 schools a week. Repeat that every week from Feb to October. Give family passes out every week as a reward for school achievement. 10 per day is 50 passes a week. Kids go, get the bug or habit.

 

Get your captain or put it into cobtrsct to do 5 days promoting so that they are in the local radio studio,introduced at the city, local press.

 

At Leicester speedway 200 yards away there is a shopping centre that every Saturday on race days there is a captive audience throughout the day of 20,000??? Where is the promotion saying tonight we have xyz, and you can see this bike, this rider.tl There should be a stand at the shopping centre every race day. I've never seen one.

 

Maybe that as the promoters are amateur that they can't do the necessary or invest the time, but certainly they from a Leicester point of view could do infinitely more than they have done.

 

PS and get a website with a design this side of 1999

[Humphrey Appleby]

Sorry Joe, disagree with a lot of that. Speaking as it were from a Leicester point of view, virtually zero promoting has taken place. In the 1 real occasion that there was some promotional work, discounted offer, vouchers in the paper weeks in advance, the queue was massive and the start had to be delayed.

I don't think the problem is so much getting new punters through the door, the problem is keeping them. If the product doesn't come over well when they turn up for the first time, they'll never come back, and that's quite aside from pitching things at a suitable price that will encourage them to return regularly.

 

I think getting people to try a poor product is worse than doing nothing at all, because you'll never persuade them to try it again.

[Joe Beevers]

Sorry Joe, disagree with a lot of that. Speaking as it were from a Leicester point of view, virtually zero promoting has taken place. In the 1 real occasion that there was some promotional work, discounted offer, vouchers in the paper weeks in advance, the queue was massive and the start had to be delayed.

My 2 kids have been to 3 schools within 3 miles of the track and only on 1 occasion did the promotion visit the school. That resulted in my son going for the 1 and only time. It was free but I get the feeling that he felt it was his decision rather than me trying to get him to go.

I compare 2 similar sized minority sports in Leicester. Speedway and basketball. They are light years apart in respect of promoting, media presence and accessibility.

BBC local radio speaks to the coach every week (and also is in the studio every week they don't have match on a Friday), the interview players, again in the studio, talk about the local area. The players are introduced at half time at Leicester city. Their website is modern, easy to follow and has content. They use social media to get the message out and are in all local publications weekly....oh and it's cheaper

Speedway. Website is from early internet days and hasn't been touched other than to remove limited content.

Riders always busy elsewhere and have limited if any links locally so there's no interview material to connect locally.

I think that one of the legacies of doubling up means that more than any other sport,the home track is a once a week stop off for wages with no affiliation to the club, fans or area.

I have never understood half or more empty stadiums or grounds with 20 schools with 3 miles. Surely such a catchment is music to any marketing man's dreams.

If kids are the future encourage them. Get into 5 schools a week. Repeat that every week from Feb to October. Give family passes out every week as a reward for school achievement. 10 per day is 50 passes a week. Kids go, get the bug or habit.

Get your captain or put it into cobtrsct to do 5 days promoting so that they are in the local radio studio,introduced at the city, local press.

At Leicester speedway 200 yards away there is a shopping centre that every Saturday on race days there is a captive audience throughout the day of 20,000??? Where is the promotion saying tonight we have xyz, and you can see this bike, this rider.tl There should be a stand at the shopping centre every race day. I've never seen one.

Maybe that as the promoters are amateur that they can't do the necessary or invest the time, but certainly they from a Leicester point of view could do infinitely more than they have done.

PS and get a website with a design this side of 1999

To be fair this is a new club with a new promotion who have only just started but I totally agree with your points and I think your promotion need to listen to you.

 

Perhaps financial wise they couldn't promote it and may have been naive to have taken such a big step to jump head first into the top league and were so worried about running the club in the first year that they forgot to advertise and market the sport in an area that is already filled with football, rugby, cricket and the minor sports you mentioned.

 

I think anyone would struggle there but if it was my club, I would like to think I would have got the advertising and marketing basics in the area all done before I actually had started the team up.