25yearfan Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 (edited) The bottom line is that without the 3rd tier, recent Elite League clubs, Birmingham, Eastbourne and Lakeside would all probably be defunct! The same goes for the likes of Mildenhall, IoW, Stoke and Plymouth. Buxton would of never even seen speedway! Cradley would be a name from the past! Unfortunately in these times of less riders competing in League speedway, this means that the present day National League has probably become to big in terms of team numbers which means that the poorer, less attractive teams struggle to put together a competitive line up! There has long been a conflict of interests in the 3rd tier going back to the early years in the mid 90's with the standalones needing competitive, trophy competing line ups in order to sustain viable interest with terms of crowd levels and sponsorship while the 2nd teams of higher League tracks won't be under as much pressure be viable cause the main team would subsidise the reserve whose main agenda would be to develop future higher League riders. The influx of teams that in an ideal world would be in higher League combined with less riders riding in League speedway has made this conflict more extreme and tougher for the poorer 3rd Division clubs cause riders naturally will go to clubs who can offer better financial rewards and more chance of winning. But the top 2 Leagues in present times only survive through riders doubling up so wheres the solution? It'd be good to see a couple of the stronger standalones move up next season but where are the extra riders coming from and why do they want to go from a viable League to one where they will likely lose money, struggle to get a competitive team and ultimately end up in the same situation that forced to them to take refuse in the 3rd tier in the 1st place? The solutions? - Top 15-16 higher League tracks combine and form a big top tier while the rest combine with the stronger 3rd tier teams and form a 2nd Division slightly stronger than the current National League while a new less competitive 3rd tier is created featuring the likes of Buxton, Iwade?, Northside?, reserve teams and ultilising many of the riders competing in the current 4th tier Junior Leagues? 6 person teams? Edited May 28, 2017 by 25yearfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudtobeaBrummie Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 I don't need to thank you and I'm not full of self pity either. I have stated my opinion if you don't think that it is a sad day for the league to lose a club of Kings Lynn's standing then its you that needs to take a look at yourself. You can celebrate again when Buxton shut as after all that is what you seem to want to happen. What happens to your own club if a buyer isn't found by the end of the year? Doubts over the long term future of a lot of clubs and it is a fact that riders are being paid a lot of money in what is meant to be a development league. Do you think that riders and promoters don't talk to one another? Again you are wrong - it is stated in the league rules at £10 per point and 10p per mile. The majority of teams may not adhere to it but it is there in black and white. The Majority ??? you mean your team does not i know for a fact you have offered a pretty average rider considerably more than that . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 Do you suggest the 'failing' teams just close? Yes.... If needs be for the greater good.. The biggest issue Speedway has is that evolutions theory of 'survival of the fittest' isn't followed.. Too many teams, not enough riders, and costs running out of control has resulted in a 'race to the bottom'... 'It's OK to fail as you can move down' is the mantra. But all this does is create issues for the League these teams enter as invariably they are better equipped to drop to that level than the ones currently there... You can see the positive rationale for dropping down, as all of a sudden teams can become competitive, crowds hold up, or even improve on the back of some success, and costs are slashed, however... As the 'race to the bottom' continues of course it will result in the same thing happening. ie as the 'bigger fish' continue to drop down as their 'sea' becomes too large, the current 'big fish' again become minnows, and as they then can no longer compete they once more need to find a home in 'another sea'.. Too many teams, not enough riders.... Until that is fixed then the Sport won't move forwards organically, ,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMcCaffery Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 Yes.... If needs be for the greater good.. .... Too many teams, not enough riders.... Tell that to the supporters of the tracks that close. Of course while there have been very real risks, closure is something that is alien to Belle Vue fans, and I'm really pleased that you have been spared that awful reality. My track closed 43 years ago. It still hurts. Badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East End Fan Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 Interesting that Jayne says that the pay in the 3rd tier is listed at £10pp. To be frank, if riders are expected to travel all over the country, maintain their machinery and vans, they can not possibly do it at £10 per point unless they have wealthy parents. So she should not criticise those that pay more, they are simply living in the real world. My club, Lakeside, have just employed Paul Hurry and I cannot see him riding for £10 a point. Does not make Cook and Tatum villains. The league has moved onwards and upwards and is now a semi-professional league that provides excellent entertainment to all of us. Don't expect that for nothing. Also, the standard of riders moving upward into the more senior leagues is better than ever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 So sad Interesting that Jayne says that the pay in the 3rd tier is listed at £10pp. To be frank, if riders are expected to travel all over the country, maintain their machinery and vans, they can not possibly do it at £10 per point unless they have wealthy parents. So she should not criticise those that pay more, they are simply living in the real world. My club, Lakeside, have just employed Paul Hurry and I cannot see him riding for £10 a point. Does not make Cook and Tatum villains. The league has moved onwards and upwards and is now a semi-professional league that provides excellent entertainment to all of us. Don't expect that for nothing. Also, the standard of riders moving upward into the more senior leagues is better than ever. Is it not £10 a point plus expenses paid? Like petrol and methanol? Just a guess... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 (edited) Tell that to the supporters of the tracks that close. Of course while there have been very real risks, closure is something that is alien to Belle Vue fans, and I'm really pleased that you have been spared that awful reality. My track closed 43 years ago. It still hurts. Badly. Understand that Rob. But the reasons for the demise, in the main, just transfer from one team to the next... Teams drop down or go bust mainly because they cannot compete financially or simply there are not enough riders to go round to make them competitive... You can also then add the self inflicted issue of a poorly performing team not being able to improve their lot (even if they have the money to do so) due to some not fit for purpose average system. Meaning they continue to suffer as disgruntled crowds dwindle... Why should a team four months into the season, if they want to change riders, still have to measure up to the starting average when other teams in the league have spent four months making a complete mockery of it? . Simply there are too many teams with not enough riders to go round. Hence tracks will always struggle until the supply and demand equation is reversed.. When clubs can dictate race nights to draw the best crowds, rather than when their 'employee' can appear.. When clubs can dictate salaries rather than the employee knowing he is bomb proof and will get the same or more elsewhere.. And when clubs have excess riders 'waiting by the phone' desperate for a team place... Then, and only then can the sport move forward and businesses be ran properly... Too many tracks delivering 'poor value' actually impacts the overall brand detrimentally, so sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind and look after the many not the few... Less tracks means more riders available, more riders available means less 'no other choice but to pay' salaries are paid out and riders will have more pressure to perform for the club and fans to retain a team place. Which can only improve the competitive nature of the racing surely? Speedway, until it faces up to this will continue its ever increasing in speed 'race to the bottom'... On the plus side, when it does reach there, the only way is up!! Edited May 28, 2017 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander15 Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 Interesting that Jayne says that the pay in the 3rd tier is listed at £10pp. To be frank, if riders are expected to travel all over the country, maintain their machinery and vans, they can not possibly do it at £10 per point unless they have wealthy parents. So she should not criticise those that pay more, they are simply living in the real world. My club, Lakeside, have just employed Paul Hurry and I cannot see him riding for £10 a point. Does not make Cook and Tatum villains. The league has moved onwards and upwards and is now a semi-professional league that provides excellent entertainment to all of us. Don't expect that for nothing. Also, the standard of riders moving upward into the more senior leagues is better than ever. As Dandelion says it's £10 per point plus expenses. Whilst I agree that £10 is too low for current times, the rules say £10 maximum so Cook & Tatum should pay £10 maximum until they advocate the rules get changed at the AGM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
25yearfan Posted May 29, 2017 Report Share Posted May 29, 2017 My team Norwich closed at the end of 1964 and haven't been back since. When you've experienced that at your track and at a track that was well supported you'd understand more! If we followed Mikes theory then when Eastbourne, Birmingham and Lakeside dropped out of the EL they were instantly banished to closure! IoW, Stoke, Mildenhall and Plymouth all dropped out of the 2nd Division in the last 10 years, they too would be banished to closure as well! I've long maintained that the more tracks the better as more interest is manipulated and from many who otherwise wouldn't be interested in speedway. I suspect that a sizeable % of a tracks hardcore support would stop going if the track ceased operations! Whilst King's Lynn's Young Stars demise isn't good news, at least they weren't a standalone team which would mean that speedway would lose a track. In present times the current NL has to many teams caused by the often unsustainable nature of the top 2 Divisions, combined with less riders available meaning that lower end NL teams are struggling big time. Buxtons big win yesterday proves that their is possibly light at the end of the tunnel!? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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