King's Lynn Young Stars 2017

[ProudtobeaBrummie]

Is there still a points money limit set by the BSPA in the National league? It used to be 10 pounds a point.l

no

[TMW]

Is there still a points money limit set by the BSPA in the National league? It used to be 10 pounds a point.l

It would be too difficult to police. Any remainder could be declared as 'sponsorship'

 

All BSPA shared events are paid at £10 a point

Edited May 27, 2017 by TMW

[Islander15]

Money is an issue but it's not just that clubs can afford to pay more but the 'bigger' clubs have better sponsorship. Look at Eastbourne and the amazing support of IT First, yet Buxton have nothing like that. If KL did then that money/sponsorship would go on the Stars not Young Stars!

 

But it's not just about money. Even if King's Lynn YS had all the fans and sponsors in the world, who is supposed to replace Hughes, Bailey & Phillips whilst giving the fans a competitive team that makes them spend money on 2 sides?! But that's not just a KL issue! Plymouth had a problem finding a second heat leader which meant they didn't sign Bates as well, Isle of Wight have had bottom end team problems since the turn of the year and it took Buxton months to find another committed heat leader alongside Williamson!

[Jayne]

Did not take long for jayne to turn it into another self pity thread get over yourself

I don't need to thank you and I'm not full of self pity either. I have stated my opinion if you don't think that it is a sad day for the league to lose a club of Kings Lynn's standing then its you that needs to take a look at yourself. You can celebrate again when Buxton shut as after all that is what you seem to want to happen. What happens to your own club if a buyer isn't found by the end of the year? Doubts over the long term future of a lot of clubs and it is a fact that riders are being paid a lot of money in what is meant to be a development league. Do you think that riders and promoters don't talk to one another?

no

Again you are wrong - it is stated in the league rules at £10 per point and 10p per mile. The majority of teams may not adhere to it but it is there in black and white.

[Speedway28]

The simple reason why this has happened here isn't the money, it's that there aren't enough riders to go round at this level.

[Hunters]

Money is an issue but it's not just that clubs can afford to pay more but the 'bigger' clubs have better sponsorship. Look at Eastbourne and the amazing support of IT First, yet Buxton have nothing like that. If KL did then that money/sponsorship would go on the Stars not Young Stars!

 

But it's not just about money. Even if King's Lynn YS had all the fans and sponsors in the world, who is supposed to replace Hughes, Bailey & Phillips whilst giving the fans a competitive team that makes them spend money on 2 sides?! But that's not just a KL issue! Plymouth had a problem finding a second heat leader which meant they didn't sign Bates as well, Isle of Wight have had bottom end team problems since the turn of the year and it took Buxton months to find another committed heat leader alongside Williamson!

And that is down to the large number of riders who have moved into the Higher Leagues allowing them to replace foreign and expensive imports. Some like Carr and Clegg have been persuaded back to fill injury gaps whilst others like Branford, Perks and Ellis have not. The NL is doing a sterling job for British Speedway with little or no recognition of it and certainly no reward.

 

JPB should have been a Buxton asset in 2015 when he made his debut, imagine what his Loan Fees for the next few years would have done for them. Old subject I know but the two are linked.

[lucifer sam]

Very sad day for the sport but a decision that i can fully understand. As Dale has quite rightly stated the league has changed from its original ethos and it is harder and harder to compete for those clubs that dont have a big budget. Ironically it is those same clubs that couldn't compete at a higher level for the same reason that have 'helped' to make the league all about money.

 

To me, Buxton are the archetypal third-tier club. If they are struggling to compete in the NL then something has gone wrong.

ABSOLUTELY GUTTED, THIS IS MY SADDEST SPEEDWAY DAY SINCE THE CLOSURES OF WIMBLEDON & BOSTON.

 

I know how passionate you are about this level of speedway. I feel for you mate.

 

All the best

Rob

Edited May 27, 2017 by lucifer sam

[martin_t]

Disappointing times

Edited May 27, 2017 by martin_t

[bruno]

I don't need to thank you and I'm not full of self pity either. I have stated my opinion if you don't think that it is a sad day for the league to lose a club of Kings Lynn's standing then its you that needs to take a look at yourself. You can celebrate again when Buxton shut as after all that is what you seem to want to happen. What happens to your own club if a buyer isn't found by the end of the year? Doubts over the long term future of a lot of clubs and it is a fact that riders are being paid a lot of money in what is meant to be a development league. Do you think that riders and promoters don't talk to one another?

Again you are wrong - it is stated in the league rules at £10 per point and 10p per mile. The majority of teams may not adhere to it but it is there in black and white.

Serious question Jayne do you think the NL would be better without us and brum and the like. At our last meeting with you it looked to me like the crowd was about 90/10 in Heathen fans. Prob an exaggeration . Surely you need that money though to balance the books. I wish the likes of us Brum etc were in the CL but it seems these teams can't afford it. Hope you reply

[g13webb]

The amount of times Cradley has won the NL, it should have been compulsary for them to move up. The reason we are in this position is because the same old reason in that individual clubs are more important than the sport it self.,,, There is no credit in always being a big fish in a little ponds. We proved that at Lynn dropping down a league. Yeah we won a lot, but we always knew it wasn't that important. Its the big one that really matters,... For you to receive the credits a winning team deserves, than you should reach for the top.....

 

Bit like watching West Ham FC winning the fourth division...

[Bagpuss]

Cradley can't move up without their own track I believe.

[TMW]

The amount of times Cradley has won the NL, it should have been compulsary for them to move up. The reason we are in this position is because the same old reason in that individual clubs are more important than the sport it self.,,, There is no credit in always being a big fish in a little ponds. We proved that at Lynn dropping down a league. Yeah we won a lot, but we always knew it wasn't that important. Its the big one that really matters,... For you to receive the credits a winning team deserves, than you should reach for the top.....

 

Bit like watching West Ham FC winning the fourth division...

so if all these successful teams move up. Do you have any thoughts on what the league look like?

[Jayne]

Serious question Jayne do you think the NL would be better without us and brum and the like. At our last meeting with you it looked to me like the crowd was about 90/10 in Heathen fans. Prob an exaggeration . Surely you need that money though to balance the books. I wish the likes of us Brum etc were in the CL but it seems these teams can't afford it. Hope you reply

Of course it helps every club to have a large number of visiting supporters at their track but I do think the league is broken. It was originally set up as a stepping stone for riders to learn their trade and move on to bigger and better things in the higher leagues. Now it seems all about money and riders are asking for more per point, extra travel money, transport costs and money for mechanics (those sort of demands should be for the Championship and Premiership). You cant blame the riders entirely but they are using the league to make money and that wasn't its original intention. For some clubs the money just isn't there and there is a shortage of riders this year as ourselves and Kings Lynn have found out to our cost. Birmingham also had nowhere to go after losing Danyon and managed to get Carr in after a relaxing of the rules as we have now done with Clegg. I don't think that you can say that Cradley (for instance) keep Buxton afloat as we were in the league well before the Heathens joined and survived then. We are the longest standing club in the 'third division' and have seen many name changes, clubs come and go along with riders over the years. We might not have a big budget but we have survived this long through hard work and sticking to our principles regarding payments and not offering more than we can afford. Kings Lynn have run their 'second' team in the same manner and it is a shame that they are no longer able to compete this year.

[mikebv]

The amount of times Cradley has won the NL, it should have been compulsary for them to move up. The reason we are in this position is because the same old reason in that individual clubs are more important than the sport it self.,,, There is no credit in always being a big fish in a little ponds. We proved that at Lynn dropping down a league. Yeah we won a lot, but we always knew it wasn't that important. Its the big one that really matters,... For you to receive the credits a winning team deserves, than you should reach for the top.....

 

Bit like watching West Ham FC winning the fourth division...

 

Unfortunately no title victory 'really matters' in British Speedway, hence its a major reason it is in the mire it finds itself..

 

Ironically of all the three League's the NL is probably the one with the most integrity an credibility when it comes to the way it is ran, and usually only becomes 'Mickey Mouse' when impacted by the two League's above..

 

Its Achilles heel is the very different objectives of its competitors, meaning too many 'haves' and 'have nots'..

 

Ironically by continually accomodating failing teams by letting them drop into the NL, the Sport actually puts pressure on other better ran outfits as rider demand is way higher than the supply.

 

This simply means teams then are understrength resulting in regular (critical to crowd numbers) home losses, or, to remain anywhere near competitive, get forced into paying the way too high demands of riders who know they hold all the cards in negotiation...

 

The 'bottom division' of Speedway should really be entry level which gives young (or not so young) inexperienced riders the chance to progress. Not a 'shelter' for destitute former EL and PL teams who fall on hard times..

 

The League above should find a way to keep costs down to keep these teams in their League.

 

Bottom line of course is running so many teams nationally, all requiring seven riders, all having to try and reach a similar required set standard, without nowhere near enough capability of resource pool to achieve the objective, will always be doomed to failure...

Edited May 28, 2017 by mikebv

[CUFC_Brummie]

Some of the replies here are so fantastically speedway, a sport on its knees and apparently the problem is a few clubs who are actually run well, are reasonably professional and financially sound and operating at a level where they can sustain the future of their club, right.

 

Of course it's sad Kings Lynn have had to pull out, losing teams mid-season does no league any good, and I feel most of all for the riders who are out of a job this morning, but, this is not like losing a stand alone team, Kings Lynn still exist and could still return to the NL next year. The same could not necessarily be said for a stand alone team.

 

The fact that there are now "bigger" teams here with bigger crowds, more resources and more "pull" down here is not their fault, no rules have been broken, and the likes of us, Eastbourne, Cradley, have helped develop as many young riders as Buxton and Lynn over the last 5 years, we're not just throwing money at proven guys who have no further to develop. The problem, and the reason they are here for the most part (Cradley excluded) is because of the unsustainable way in which the top 2 divisions have been run.

 

If you want this to be truly a developmental league, with a level playing field where everyone can compete, then I suggest you go to the AGM next year, propose an U21 limit on all riders in this division with a £10 point limit and strict governance of sponsorship, and a radical restructure of the top 2 divisions to help facilitate this, that can provide for the c.30 guys who will be weeded out of the NL because of it.

 

Feasible? Absolutely, but you're going to need to spend a lot of hours putting together a damn good business case, it won't be simple to make it work logistically and financially.

 

Ultimately, Brum, Eastbourne, Crawley etc. have done this league far more harm than good, it's reputation is at its highest for years, as are overall crowds I imagine, and we are helping develop young British riders at an increasing rate. Whilst I appreciate how this has made it more difficult for teams like Buxton, business has to adapt, and that's what all sport is these days, even at this level.

Edited May 28, 2017 by CUFC_Brummie

[TMW]

Unfortunately no title victory 'really matters' in British Speedway, hence its a major reason it is in the mire it finds itself..

 

Ironically of all the three League's the NL is probably the one with the most integrity an credibility when it comes to the way it is ran, and usually only becomes 'Mickey Mouse' when impacted by the two League's above..

 

Its Achilles heel is the very different objectives of its competitors, meaning too many 'haves' and 'have nots'..

 

Ironically by continually accomodating failing teams by letting them drop into the NL, the Sport actually puts pressure on other better ran outfits as rider demand is way higher than the supply.

 

This simply means teams then are understrength resulting in regular (critical to crowd numbers) home losses, or, to remain anywhere near competitive, get forced into paying the way too high demands of riders who know they hold all the cards in negotiation...

 

The 'bottom division' of Speedway should really be entry level which gives young (or not so young) inexperienced riders the chance to progress. Not a 'shelter' for destitute former EL and PL teams who fall on hard times..

 

The League above should find a way to keep costs down to keep these teams in their League.

 

Bottom line of course is running so many teams nationally, all requiring seven riders, all having to try and reach a similar required set standard, without nowhere near enough capability of resource pool to achieve the objective, will always be doomed to failure...

Do you suggest the 'failing' teams just close?

[berniev123]

Do you suggest the 'failing' teams just close?

 

Perhaps the time has come for the NL to become a semi pro 3rd Tier League and the teams (unknown to me) who cannot afford to be in it make a 4th Tier in the manner of the original Amateur League/Conference League was designed to do way back (1995ish) when teams like Buxton, etc were formed, around 23 years ago.

Perhaps they could run 5 man teams and do double headers like the Plymouth/Kent model that were used for their Development League meetings so far this year with a mini Rider of the Night to end with (15 or so Heats).

I am not saying anything against Jayne as I have great faith that the Buxton/Moss family tradition will prevail for a long time to come!

Edited May 28, 2017 by berniev123

[East End Fan]

You have to admire Jayne Moss at Buxton for managing to keep the club going with very little money for so many years, but no one can blame other

clubs like Birmingham for having a different agenda. When all is said and done, every club must be profitable or go under. Jayne's obvious way is to

keep her costs down while others try to attract more people by having winning teams. Both have merit and natural progression has seen that riders in

the National League have improved significantly as the years have gone by. Many of them see themselves as future full professionals and invest all

their earnings into their equipment, so they are reluctant to ride for low pay and that is understandable. Very sad that Kings Lynn have dropped out

as they have produced a large number of quality riders in the past in spite of being a low pay club ( so we are told). Let's hope they decide to come back

next season but I wouldn't hold my breath !

[Bagpuss]

I don't think anyone is to blame, it's just how the league has evolved. As somebody has mentioned the second division is now more expensive than ever as the calibre of riders and admission costs show, in an ideal world Cradley, Brum, Eastie & Lakeside would be Championship clubs but circumstances don't allow it at present. You can't blame these clubs for wanting to win the National League and that inevitably means outspending the smaller teams who then have to feed off the crumbs left over.

[bruno]

Thanks for the reply Jayne and the rest of you, it's a difficult one. A couple of seasons ago I thought I'd had enough of NL racing with no sign of us getting a track or going up but I've accepted it's best to have a team to support than no team at all but the league is set up wrong. I've no answers but something needs sorting

Just to add in reply to Jayne, after our last meeting I thought I might not return to Buxton purely because the difference in team strengths I was thinking will it be worth it. Thanks to your honest response I will be there every time we ride there, hard work and principles deserves support