arnieg Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 http://www.aktuellspeedway.se/storbritannien/forare/joe-lawlor/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 BSF should put a permanent hyperlink to the SCB rule book in the footer of every post on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Thumper Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 I understand that rules are rules but , i do think that everyone has forgot about the young rider here who wants to get on in this sport. Do we want to hold him back or just try & screw Cradley Heathens? ( I hope the answer is neither.) Well, that's all well and good but unless the same rules apply to everybody, then the whole thing degenerates into a farce. Precedents are set and people start saying that if Team A did it, then Team B are going to do it. Before you know it, the recriminations start and fingers start pointing and people are shouting favouritism. The rules are the rules. If people don't like the rules, then see about getting them changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Mole Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 Yeah well if you want finger pointing then you point too Birmingham the previous year when they used JPB and Jack Smith for more than 6 meetings the previous season so where able to sign them on 3point averages last season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Thumper Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 Yeah well if you want finger pointing then you point too Birmingham the previous year when they used JPB and Jack Smith for more than 6 meetings the previous season so where able to sign them on 3point averages last season Nathan Mole illustrates my point. Have clear, simple and unambiguous rules and apply them equally to all. Speedway has enough challenges without getting bogged down in interpreting over complex rules and everyone falling out with each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander15 Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 Yeah well if you want finger pointing then you point too Birmingham the previous year when they used JPB and Jack Smith for more than 6 meetings the previous season so where able to sign them on 3point averages last season Neither rode for more than 6 league meetings! In fact both only rode 3 league meetings so that they'd be on a 3.00 average and they both only rode NT, NLKOC etc so that those meetings don't count towards an average. Which is exactly the same as Brennan has done this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*JJ Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 Neither rode for more than 6 league meetings! In fact both only rode 3 league meetings so that they'd be on a 3.00 average and they both only rode NT, NLKOC etc so that those meetings don't count towards an average. Which is exactly the same as Brennan has done this season. Never let the facts get in the way of a good rant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguetrader Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 I understand that rules are rules but , i do think that everyone has forgot about the young rider here who wants to get on in this sport. Do we want to hold him back or just try & screw Cradley Heathens? ( I hope the answer is neither.) How about fairness rather than win at all cost! The National League needs teams that compete on a level playing field. What you are supporting is not level but biased. Joe Lawlor is not a 3 point rider so let him join your team on what is his match average rather than trying to manipulate the system and have him racing against genuine 3 point riders and leave them feeling demoralised. Yeah well if you want finger pointing then you point too Birmingham the previous year when they used JPB and Jack Smith for more than 6 meetings the previous season so where able to sign them on 3point averages last season You really need a little bit of research before posting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 Its expected that Lawlor will add quite a bit to his starting average whether that is 3.00, 3.??, 4.?? providing he starts at reserve. However there is always one or two riders who start the season tipped to be the next big thing and only a handful ever deliver. The spread of new riders with potential is good this year with several teams able to track a "star" reserve. If Lawlor out performs Brennan, Bickley, Jenkins, Hampshire, Atkins etc then yes he was the top reserve however it doesn't guarantee success. Belle Vue had Bewley last season and still didn't make the play offs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac101 Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 Dan bewley mussed nearly all home matches and a few away ones the difference with dan was he came from nowhere and went from reserve to th leader so has a true average Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander15 Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 Never let the facts get in the way of a good rant! What's that supposed to mean? This year's Brummie reserves didn't ride more than 3 league meetings in 2015, so as to protect their 3.00 average. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin_t Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 So 3.27 then?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurnTwo Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 If my maths is correct lawlor could well start the season on a 4+ avg or if they don't include bv scores I think it's about a 5.5+! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathen1984 Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 Dont talk rubbish turntwo, he didn't average over 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Mole Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 I love how this thread has turned in a debate over a riders average after it has already been assessed so his average is not going to change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*JJ Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 What's that supposed to mean? This year's Brummie reserves didn't ride more than 3 league meetings in 2015, so as to protect their 3.00 average. That's what I meant! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurnTwo Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 Heathen1984 I wish you had the facts to back up your argument as I'd hate to refer to what you say as rubbish, lawlors appearances for Buxton alone in the latter part of the year, as well as one appearance for Birmingham at Buxton equate too: V Rye House 7. Joe Lawlor - 0,1*,3,1,3 = 8+1 V Kings Lynn 7. Joe Lawlor -- 3, 2', 1, 0, 1, 3 = 10+1 V IOW 7. Joe Lawlor -- 1, 2, 1, 3, 2, 2, 0 = 11 V Buxton 3. Joe Lawlor (G) - 1', 1, 1, 1, 3 = 7+1 V Eastbourne 6. Joe Lawlor (G) - 3, 2', 1', 2 = 8+2 44 points not including bonus / 27 rides = 1.629 x 4 = 6.518 not sure if my maths is correct again but 6.518 is even higher than 4 isn't it? I must be talking rubbish. Good one Heathen1984. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathen1984 Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 Yep u talking rubbish, why aint you put all the meetings down that he scored noughts n ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 If you follow the link on the previous page you will see that Heathen1984 is correct. Lawlor averaged less than 3.5 taken across all the NL matches he rode in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) just having a look at the averages on the sgb website. Why does lawlor have a 3 point avg and sam beebee has a 4.25? Surely lawlor averaged more and they were both not in a team Decleration? According to the excellent speedway stats his average for 2016 was 3.27 http://www.speedway-stats.co.uk/Rider/665 So my site (speedway-stats.co.uk) has Lawlors average from his 16 meetings for BV at 2.29 but that includes a meeting at Buxton as number 8. If you count all his meetings for every team then it's 3.27 but again, that inclues 8 meetings as a teams number 8. Surely the figure that counts is his 2.29 from 16 meetings for BV? You coulld make it 2.36 if you take away his meetings for BV at #8. Honestly not seeing the issue with Lawlor being a 3. As for Sam Bebee I make it 4 meetings for Mildenhall as a declared rider averaging 4.25 but it's always difficult with the NL to know if riders are in declared teams or not as they change on a whim and the rules seem to be made up as and when someone sees fit. If you're including guest bookings then Sams average is 3.18. The fact I make Sam 4.25 from delcared meetings (and guest meetings not included) the same as the BSPA makes Lawlors 2.29 from his declared meetings the relevant figure. Averages in declared teams here, http://speedway-stats.co.uk/Averages/2016/3 Lawlors meetings and average here http://www.speedway-stats.co.uk/Rider/665 Bebees meetings and average here http://speedway-stats.co.uk/Rider/670 In short, 3 and 4.25 look right to me. Heathen1984 I wish you had the facts to back up your argument as I'd hate to refer to what you say as rubbish, lawlors appearances for Buxton alone in the latter part of the year, as well as one appearance for Birmingham at Buxton equate too: V Rye House 7. Joe Lawlor - 0,1*,3,1,3 = 8+1 V Kings Lynn 7. Joe Lawlor -- 3, 2', 1, 0, 1, 3 = 10+1 V IOW 7. Joe Lawlor -- 1, 2, 1, 3, 2, 2, 0 = 11 V Buxton 3. Joe Lawlor (G) - 1', 1, 1, 1, 3 = 7+1 V Eastbourne 6. Joe Lawlor (G) - 3, 2', 1', 2 = 8+2 44 points not including bonus / 27 rides = 1.629 x 4 = 6.518 not sure if my maths is correct again but 6.518 is even higher than 4 isn't it? I must be talking rubbish. Good one Heathen1984. Well Done on picking just 5 of his 38 meetings Why not pick the 5 meetings where he totaled 3 from 18 = 0.66 Edited December 10, 2016 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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