scottyfan Posted November 5, 2016 Report Share Posted November 5, 2016 We can look forward to Glasgow meeting Swindon Edited with the correct teams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marko Posted November 5, 2016 Report Share Posted November 5, 2016 So if in 12 months Rye House or another team finish mid table but decide it's better for business to run at second division level they won't be allowed to drop down? How would it have affected Lakeside if it had been in operation this season? As others have said the principle is ok but there is no way this will work in reality because the sport is too unstable in terms of movement of clubs opening/closing and changing how they operate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted November 5, 2016 Report Share Posted November 5, 2016 Edited with the correct teams My two teams 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 5, 2016 Report Share Posted November 5, 2016 The bottom PremGB will probably be so battered by then that averages won't matter! They won't. The teams all start 10 points apart, by October when the Championship team have improved and are riding high they should be able to beat a team that has under performed and is low on confidence. To put it into perspective, Somerset ended on 48 this year, so only 2 points short, so it only needs the Premiership team to have dropped 2 points and suddenly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted November 5, 2016 Report Share Posted November 5, 2016 In reality, what will actually decide who is promoted and relegated will be, as always, money. With the best will in the world, if your business model shows that altering your cost base by moving into another scenario means that you will be financially unviable, then you would have to be seriously mentally challenged to even consider it. Promotion and relegation might work in football where there are more clubs, more money and more spectators but we do not operate in that world. I suspect that promotion/relegation will prove to be just about as gimmicky as green helmet covers and changing the names of things for no understandable reason. Just my opinion, obviously. Anyone who wanted top league this year .only needed to ask . so come playoff time and the mess the premiership will be in by then , do you think they will try to win what they could have just said yes to , promotion relegation playoff , will be a foregone conclusion . and a complete waste of time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIRKYLANE Posted November 5, 2016 Report Share Posted November 5, 2016 Last time we had promotion / relegation , the team winning the lower league could chose not to go up even if they won the play off !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damosuzuki Posted November 5, 2016 Report Share Posted November 5, 2016 I'd kind of assumed that would still be the case tbh. If Glasgow or Edinburgh were to go up the way things are now their closest away meeting would be Manchester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 They won't. The teams all start 10 points apart, by October when the Championship team have improved and are riding high they should be able to beat a team that has under performed and is low on confidence. To put it into perspective, Somerset ended on 48 this year, so only 2 points short, so it only needs the Premiership team to have dropped 2 points and suddenly.... The relative end of season averages are irrelevant. The top Championship team will have a higher team average than the bottom Premiership team because they race in a lower standard division. The 10 point differential is the equivalent of replacing the Championship 2 pointer with a Championship number 1. Any team with that sort of advantage at the start of the Championship would be a cert for the title ergo the bottom Premiership must be a cert for the relegation play off. True a struggling Premiership team might be low on confidence against other Premiership teams but given that many of the team might also ride in the Championship that may be less of an issue. Closer than its ever been but the odds are still stacked. Although if Matt Ford is telling everyone there'll be two more Premiership teams in 2018 the concept of earning your place via promotion play off is somewhat redundant....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wealdstone Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 If this is going to work ie Championship teams genuinely aspiring to the Premier, why did more not opt for Premier in the first place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 The relative end of season averages are irrelevant. The top Championship team will have a higher team average than the bottom Premiership team because they race in a lower standard division. You are missing the fact that teams are built using the same averages, based on the 2nd tier.A chsmpionshipship title side as scb mentions could add 6 points to that. so they have essentially "built" a 46 point team. it's quite possible a poor pl side may build to 48 say, and lose a couple of points off their average. Now as you say they are riding a harder league. But say they average 39 points (I. E. 3 below what the league average of 42 is). If u assume a multiplier of 1.4 is about right for the varying strengths, then a 3 pt drop in average is perhaps equivalent to stopping 2 points in the Championship. So there could be a closing match. The real issue I would suggest is that surely any team interested in promotion would have chosen to go up for this season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Thumper Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 The relative end of season averages are irrelevant. The top Championship team will have a higher team average than the bottom Premiership team because they race in a lower standard division. The 10 point differential is the equivalent of replacing the Championship 2 pointer with a Championship number 1. Any team with that sort of advantage at the start of the Championship would be a cert for the title ergo the bottom Premiership must be a cert for the relegation play off. True a struggling Premiership team might be low on confidence against other Premiership teams but given that many of the team might also ride in the Championship that may be less of an issue. Closer than its ever been but the odds are still stacked. Although if Matt Ford is telling everyone there'll be two more Premiership teams in 2018 the concept of earning your place via promotion play off is somewhat redundant....... Sadly, although 2 teams are rumoured to be keen to move up into whatever the 1st Division might be called next year, as far as I am aware they have not yet been named. On one of the other threads, it has been suggested that the likely candidates are Buxton Hitmen and Crawley Heathens. So with this knowledge to hand, clearly we can rest easy in our beds and be confident that the promotion/relegation system will be transparent and well-organized. .........and if at the end of all the end of the season's hostilities, Kings Lynn are the team in the drop zone, how would you rate the chances of the relegation actually happening? And if a team does not accept it's fate will the BSPA put their foot down with a firm hand and impose discipline on the miscreant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur cross Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 And yet the 3 sports leagues with the highest income in the World seem to manage just fine without it! If you're talking about the American Football NFL, basketball NBA and baseball MLB, then you're talking about a totally different concept of promotion and relegation based far more around individual players. Yes, all the major league franchises can't be relegated as a whole club but, instead, there are extensive feeder systems serving up a plentiful supply of players ready for "promotion" into the top level and, therefore, making it easy for struggling players to be "relegated". Both the NFL and NBA stock their teams primarily from college (university) superstars where the colleges themselves have multi-million dollar tv-contracts that get top tv-priority over the pro-teams at certain times (college football gets autumn Saturdays to itself while the NFL's main day is Sunday, college basketball dominates the last two weekends of March and the opening weekend of April for its 68-team national title knockout). Hence the fans and the sports-media over there don't need a narrative of any team being promoted/relegated because they've always got plenty of stories relating to which college stars are going to make it in the pros plus (always good for headlines) which party-daft college stars will crash horribly under the major league spotlight, All the MLB teams have a string of minor league teams directly affiliated to them covering Triple-A (sizeable cities with not quite a big enough fanbase for MLB), Double-A and Single-A, even going down to leagues just for rookie (first-year pros) and warm-winter play in Florida and Arizona ... that all makes it very easy to "promote" or "relegate" players within an MLB franchise up-and-down that franchise's ladder of teams, even for just a few days at a time in the frequent case of an injured superstar spending a week or two at his club's Triple-A or Double-A side both to regain match-fitness and boost those minor-league attendances. British speedway's caught right in the middle of this "promotion/relegation" debate as it's based in a land that's very used to the club-style promotion/relegation but it's actually a sport that's probably far better suited to the North American model of settled levels for each team supported by a clear framework for individual riders to move up-&-down those levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 You are missing the fact that teams are built using the same averages, based on the 2nd tier. A chsmpionshipship title side as scb mentions could add 6 points to that. so they have essentially "built" a 46 point team. it's quite possible a poor pl side may build to 48 say, and lose a couple of points off their average. Now as you say they are riding a harder league. But say they average 39 points (I. E. 3 below what the league average of 42 is). If u assume a multiplier of 1.4 is about right for the varying strengths, then a 3 pt drop in average is perhaps equivalent to stopping 2 points in the Championship. So there could be a closing match. The real issue I would suggest is that surely any team interested in promotion would have chosen to go up for this season? Well aware that everyone starts from an old premier league average base but once you have one division stronger than the other the relative averages are not comparable. A new Premiership team which averages 39 is not necessarily worse than a Championship team that averages 48. If the 1.4 multiplier is a valid conversion then the 39 point Premiership team would be the equivalent of a 55 point Championship team. But who knows what that conversion factor should be. All we can say is that:- Premiership team strength = Championship team strength less 2.00 #7 plus Premiership 12.00 #1 (i.e. replace your junior with Chris Holder) So why didn't more teams just move up anyway? Well there wouldn't be enough riders to support a larger league with 50 point team strength it only works because of doubling up, unless you build to 41.00 points (i.e old PL standard). Plus a few old PL teams struggled to afford that standard so it appears the few win over the majority. A few old EL teams don't want to lower to PL standard so they build to 50 points and a few old PL teams cant afford PL standard so they build to 40 points, whilst the majority would be able to operate an old PL standard. Add to that some teams who might be able to afford the uplift to 50 point PL teams would now be in a different league to their local rivals and you end up with a quasi South:North split anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 It's just another BSPA gimmick, regurgitated as an AGM stockingfiller, next season we'll probably have green helmet covers back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wealdstone Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 In the event no team will be demoted if they don't want to be and neither will any team be promoted .As usual as long as they are able to run a team can be in whatever league the want. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Thumper Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 It's just another BSPA gimmick, regurgitated as an AGM stockingfiller, next season we'll probably have green helmet covers back. Did I not read on another thread that yellow and black helmet covers were being replaced by Pink rather than Green? Perhaps, I imagined it but I thought that it said that the rider in the Pink helmet would be getting a 15 metre start. I'll have a dig and see if I can find it - I DO hope it wasn't a wind-up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 As usual there is the claim that teams strengths are much more even over the 2 leagues. The outcome will always be the same. The top level team is always much stronger than the lower level one. The worst top level team will still beat the best of the lower level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 As usual there is the claim that teams strengths are much more even over the 2 leagues. The outcome will always be the same. The top level team is always much stronger than the lower level one. The worst top level team will still beat the best of the lower level. Favourites absolutely but with what is being introduced for 2017 it wouldn't be a forgone conclusion as previously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray c Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 It's just another BSPA gimmick, regurgitated as an AGM stockingfiller, next season we'll probably have green helmet covers back.hope so green my favourite colour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Favourites absolutely but with what is being introduced for 2017 it wouldn't be a forgone conclusion as previously. Disagree. Teams are built 10 points higher in the top league. Comfortable top flight wins home and away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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