Converted Averages.

[waiheke1]

Doyle, along with NKI, Holder & Jonsson must have that converted average adjusted. There is no sense in signing a rider on an average it is impossible to retain. Doyle & NKI should have an average of =+13.5/5*4 = 10.8. Holder and Jonsson should be =+13.25/5*4 = 10.6

WHY? Almost every rider is coming in on an average they won't retain, given that on average each rider will drop by over a point. The new averages are ok relative to each other. would be ridiculous if Doyle was only a point more than harris for example.

[Col]

WHY? Almost every rider is coming in on an average they won't retain, given that on average each rider will drop by over a point. The new averages are ok relative to each other. would be ridiculous if Doyle was only a point more than harris for example.

 

Because it is impossible to average above 12:00. I very much doubt even Hans Neilsen or Ivan Mauger in there finest moments averaged above 11:50. You cannot expect the impossible.

[waiheke1]

 

Because it is impossible to average above 12:00. I very much doubt even Hans Neilsen or Ivan Mauger in there finest moments averaged above 11:50. You cannot expect the impossible.

You are missing the point. no they will not attain that average. But in relation to other riders there average is proportionately correct. And that is all the team building process is about - aiming to ensure teams of relatively even strength. VERY few riders this season will maintain their starting average.

But if I was building a team idx still be happy to have Doyle or holder in it.

And Hans did average over 11.5 in a season. in fact he once averaged 12 away from home over a bl season.

[CB252]

 

Because it is impossible to average above 12:00. I very much doubt even Hans Neilsen or Ivan Mauger in there finest moments averaged above 11:50. You cannot expect the impossible.

Nielsen averaged 11.83 in 1986.

 

Riders can't do it now of course as they have neither the talent or dedication.

[woodenspoon]

It would help a great deal if the BSPA produced a set of averages, based upon the last green sheets from 2016. to be used in the respective leagues for 2017

 

The other thing is what are the assessed averages of new to the UK foreign riders going to be.

 

I can see a lot of team changes after about a month.

[Starman2006]

 

“What Poole did at the end of the season didn’t look morally right and what Peterborough did in a bid to make the play-offs didn’t look right to me. Had they (Peterborough) have made the play-offs and then succeeded and did well, that wasn’t the team that had got them there and done well. We’re trying to make that fairer and other sports do it with transfer windows so I’m happy with that change.”

And what Wolverhampton did to make the plays off wasn't morally right either. But hey ho Chris, you are entitled to your opinion.

[A ORLOV]

Doyle, along with NKI, Holder & Jonsson must have that converted average adjusted. There is no sense in signing a rider on an average it is impossible to retain. Doyle & NKI should have an average of =+13.5/5*4 = 10.8. Holder and Jonsson should be =+13.25/5*4 = 10.6

I wish they would have done that which would have allowed Swindon to have had two top heat leaders, but you cannot adjust some averages and not all.

After a month or two the riders will get proper averages and not the false ones for some riders that were earned last year due to the previous great plan, which was something many fans could see would happen.

[Come on the Skipper]

Ok, so I've had a go at working out what the teambuilding average would be for each rider who rode in this seasons Elite League, and they are shown below. They are based on the most recent green sheet averages (EL 31 and PL 33). It's quite possible that I've made some mistakes so if you do notice any please let me know.

 

Name EL Avg PL Avg Teambuilding

Jason Doyle 9.58 0.00 13.41

Niels Kristian Iversen 9.04 0.00 12.66

Chris Holder 8.95 0.00 12.53

Andreas Jonsson 8.45 0.00 11.83

Krzysztof Kasprzak 7.91 0.00 11.07

Matej Zagar 7.48 0.00 10.47

Freddie Lindgren 7.21 0.00 10.09

Hans Andersen 7.15 0.00 10.01

Craig Cook 7.37 9.88 9.88

Jacob Thorssell 7.06 0.00 9.88

Tai Woffinden 7.03 0.00 9.84

Antonio Lindback 7.00 0.00 9.80

Max Fricke 7.08 0.00 9.91

Bjarne Pedersen 6.91 0.00 9.67

Nick Morris 6.41 0.00 8.97

Kim Nilsson 6.88 0.00 9.63

Edward Kennett 7.16 9.27 9.27

Danny King 7.22 9.57 9.57

Joonas Kylmakorpi 6.68 0.00 9.35

Chris Harris 6.58 0.00 9.21

Sebastian Ulamek 6.60 0.00 9.24

Josh Grajczonek 5.95 8.90 8.90

Brady Kurtz 6.44 9.22 9.22

Scott Nicholls 6.59 0.00 9.23

Steve Worrall 5.95 8.51 8.51

Sam Masters 7.18 8.88 8.88

Rohan Tungate 6.05 9.03 9.03

Mikkel Bech Jensen 6.26 0.00 8.76

Patrick Hougaard 6.22 0.00 8.71

Richard Lawson 5.83 8.17 8.17

Richie Worrall 5.82 8.33 8.33

Krzysztof Buczkowski 6.02 0.00 8.43

Mads Korneliussen 6.04 0.00 8.46

Jason Garrity 6.00 8.55 8.55

Lewis Bridger 6.09 0.00 8.53

Robert Lambert 7.08 8.76 8.76

Peter Karlsson 5.91 0.00 8.27

Szymon Wozniak 5.91 0.00 8.27

Rory Schlein 5.12 0.00 7.17

Aaron Summers 4.69 8.13 8.13

Justin Sedgmen 5.43 0.00 7.60

Adam Ellis 5.60 0.00 7.84

Ben Barker 4.54 7.70 7.70

Grzegorz Walasek 5.45 0.00 7.63

Dave Watt 5.40 0.00 7.56

Ludvig Lindgren 4.34 7.65 7.65

Piotr Swiderski 5.20 0.00 7.28

Paul Starke 4.94 6.62 6.62

Charles Wright 4.84 6.59 6.59

Josh Auty 4.90 7.10 7.10

Kyle Howarth 5.13 7.18 7.18

Troy Batchelor 5.26 0.00 7.36

Nikolaj Busk Jakobsen 4.15 6.98 6.98

Kyle Newman 5.52 6.31 6.31

Lewis Kerr 4.80 6.59 6.59

Nikolas Porsing 4.99 6.58 6.58

Kacper Woryna 4.65 0.00 6.51

Dennis Jonsson 4.00 0.00 5.60

Carl Wilkinson 3.74 6.12 6.12

Josh Bates 4.76 5.02 5.02

James Sarjeant 3.81 5.80 5.80

Nicolai Klindt 6.36 5.42 5.42

Stefan Nielsen 3.67 5.53 5.53

Lewis Rose 5.00 5.86 5.86

Kai Huckenbeck 3.67 0.00 5.14

Rob Mear 3.65 0.00 5.11

Simon Lambert 5.47 5.25 5.25

Adam Roynon 4.80 5.05 5.05

Joe Jacobs 5.14 5.36 5.36

Ben Morley 3.00 3.85 3.85

Ashley Morris 3.00 4.83 4.83

Max Clegg 4.15 4.04 4.04

Robert Branford 3.00 4.60 4.60

Edited November 5, 2016 by Come on the Skipper

[IronScorpion]

The conversion figure is for Team Building purposes only to a team max of 50. After a period of racing, riders will attain a true average which will then have a conversion figure for the Premiership League only.

 

I have posted that would the 4H & 4A system be used(not seen it confirmed anywhere) & a conversion figure of 1.2 could be used(7 riders have 4 rides each giving 42 points x 1.2 = 50.4 ie nearest to Premiership max of 50)

My view on the averages is that if you have a PL average, then you use that as you have gained that average in the PL. Similarly, if you have an EL average, then you should use your EL x conversion average as you gained that average in the EL race format.

[g13webb]

The conversion figure is for Team Building purposes only to a team max of 50. After a period of racing, riders will attain a true average which will then have a conversion figure for the Premiership League only.

 

I have posted that would the 4H & 4A system be used(not seen it confirmed anywhere) & a conversion figure of 1.2 could be used(7 riders have 4 rides each giving 42 points x 1.2 = 50.4 ie nearest to Premiership max of 50)

My view on the averages is that if you have a PL average, then you use that as you have gained that average in the PL. Similarly, if you have an EL average, then you should use your EL x conversion average as you gained that average in the EL race format.

 

I understand all that's been said about averages, conversions PL rides and EL rides, but there are still a couple of issues I have problems with. 1, Why was the conversion rate of 1.4 set so high. It is obvious the BSPA feel that was the difference between some of the riders. The biggest disparity between the riders happens with the EL reserves, and those averages aren't going to be used. Whereas, although the heat leader's average were much level they're subjected to a 1.4 conversion making there score well over the top. I appreciate this is for team building purposes only, but acquiring riders with PL average is far more beneficial than using riders with a 1.4 factor added on. A conversion of 1.2 would have been far more suitable and workable.

 

Next question. 2, Am I right in thinking that when a riders races in both leagues, the scores he achieves in the top league means nothing as its his PL average that count ???? Surely a riders average has to take onto account all his meeting . So assuming Joe Bloggs on a 6, scores 6` in the PL and 10 in the EL , his average will remain the same.

 

If, as we have been told, the average are to apply to both leagues then there has to be a formula to accumulate all rides on a comparative level. Probably it would have been better to calculate a riders average per ride instead of per match (similar to the method used aboard.) That way a rider would be worth a definite figure.

 

Not wanting to moan about the good work the BSPA have done, hoping for a good season ahead. But the CMA has always been a bone of contention and unfortunately I don't see it being any different...

[Col]

But if I was building a team idx still be happy to have Doyle or holder in it.

 

Then you won't win a league with such a philosophy.

[waiheke1]

 

Then you won't win a league with such a philosophy.

Disagree. I reckon poole will start as favour items with c holder in the side.

[waiheke1]

 

I understand all that's been said about averages, conversions PL rides and EL rides, but there are still a couple of issues I have problems with. 1, Why was the conversion rate of 1.4 set so high. It is obvious the BSPA feel that was the difference between some of the riders. The biggest disparity between the riders happens with the EL reserves, and those averages aren't going to be used. Whereas, although the heat leader's average were much level they're subjected to a 1.4 conversion making there score well over the top. I appreciate this is for team building purposes only, but acquiring riders with PL average is far more beneficial than using riders with a 1.4 factor added on. A conversion of 1.2 would have been far more suitable and workable.

 

Next question. 2, Am I right in thinking that when a riders races in both leagues, the scores he achieves in the top league means nothing as its his PL average that count ???? Surely a riders average has to take onto account all his meeting . So assuming Joe Bloggs on a 6, scores 6` in the PL and 10 in the EL , his average will remain the same.

 

If, as we have been told, the average are to apply to both leagues then there has to be a formula to accumulate all rides on a comparative level. Probably it would have been better to calculate a riders average per ride instead of per match (similar to the method used aboard.) That way a rider would be worth a definite figure.

 

Not wanting to moan about the good work the BSPA have done, hoping for a good season ahead. But the CMA has always been a bone of contention and unfortunately I don't see it being any different...

Tbh 1.4 is about right, proportionate to other riders, especially when u consider most of the EL only riders have deflated averages due to the format. reality is that on average riders averages are over inflated by 20% - your 1.2 is about right, had they also applied a .85 factor to the PL averages. That would have allowed building to a 42 or 43 point limit which could have been retained all season.

 

Makes no sense for me for "in season" averages to be calculated across both leagues, opens things up to accusations of deliberate under performing in the PL.

 

Single ride average vs meeting average (ride ave x4) makes zero difference?

[Barrow Boy 2]

Nielsen averaged 11.83 in 1986.

 

Riders can't do it now of course as they have neither the talent or dedication.

Averages have always been calculated on the basis of all riders only having 4 rides. A rider scoring 15 from 5 rides does not average 15, he averages 12 which is the maximum figure that can be obtained. Neilsen's 11.83 is therefore near perfection.

[Steve Shovlar]

Nielsen averaged 11.83 in 1986.

Riders can't do it now of course as they have neither the talent or dedication.

Whilst Neilsen was the best rider at the time, the racing format was certainly easier for number ones, and didn't they pick which gate they rode from?

 

Today the EL format means they get tougher rides.

[Bagpuss]

Indeed, only met the opposing number one in heat one and no heat 15 back then.

[SteveLyric2]

Whilst Neilsen was the best rider at the time, the racing format was certainly easier for number ones, and didn't they pick which gate they rode from?

 

Today the EL format means they get tougher rides.

 

Not in the Premiership they won't!!!