Eastbourne V Birmingham Ko Cup 2nd Leg Sun 30th Oct

[John Leslie]

On May 6th, Tom Wooley and Joe Lawlor guested for Mildenhall at Belle Vue, then - Tom Woolley rode for BV - that's his team. Joe Lawlor wasn't a guest . He was a 3.00 rider not listed in any 1-7, replacing a reserve. All perfectly legal

 

on May 13th, Wooley and Lawlor rode for Belle Vue against Eastbourne. - Again Tom Woolley rode for his own team. Joe Lawlor wasn't a guest. He was a 3.00 rider not listed in any 1-7 replacing a reserve. All perfectly legal.

 

On August 17th, Ben Hopwood guested for IOW at Belle Vue then - Ben Hopwood hadn't guested on the Belle Vue track in the previous 8 days. All prefectly legal

 

on August 26th, Hopwood also guested for Kent at Belle Vue. - Ben Hopwood hadn't guested on the Belle Vue track in the previous 8 days. All prefectly legal (He had however guested 9 days ago).

 

So no illegal guests listed in those instances.

 

 

At least you tried to find broken rules...... but failed.

[gazzac]

 

I've given up caring. If they lied about the 5 previous incidents, then the situation stinks. If they were right about the 5 previous incidents, then the situation stinks. Either way, the situation stinks. Just glad the season's over. Let's see if time will be a healer and the people who were cheated out of a good meeting will forgive and forget in time for next March.

 

 

And that's the big question...IF

 

Has anyone spoken to a referee about what their responsibilities are? So, does anyone "know", or are people "supposing that they know", or is it a case of "I don't know but surely it must be the referee's job"?

 

I was always under the impression that a referee takes control of a meeting 2 hours before tapes up. Now I may be wrong about that, but if I'm right, then the team line-ups could have been in the referee's in-tray for as long as you like, there would have been nothing that he would have been empowered to do. Now imaginge for a moment that the referee had spoken to Drury in the week, and given him some advice about what will happen if he fields an illegible guest, how happy would Eastbourne (really) have been? Accusations of referees colluding with the Brummies management would have made this scandal look like peanuts.

Exactly it was up to the Brum management to confirm that Shanes was eligible as said before, they failed to do that.

Edited October 31, 2016 by gazzac

[Vincent Vega]

Will Eastbourne stay in the NL next season or move up to the PL?

[gazzac]

Will Eastbourne stay in the NL next season or move up to the PL?

Sure it'll be NL again, unfinished business.

[OGT]

Rules are rules.

In general yes, in British speedway, not necessarily.

Open to interpretation, not set in stone.

[Guest GiveusaB]

I blame the Birmingham management !!! What a shambles on such a big occasion !!!

No excuses, we 'cocked' up !

Yet again it's the paying public that have suffered.....

 

However JPB's performance needs acknowledging.......

[uk_martin]

...JPB's performance needs acknowledging.......

It has been according to the latest press release. I hope it's not just a case of "deflector shields up" lol.

[cityrebel]

Acknowledged, despite not being an eagles fan, I have been going to Arlington since 1972. JPB's performance was one of the finest I have seen from an away rider. The way he tackled such a technical track was a joy to watch.

[Sings4Speedway]

JPB was outstanding and fully deserves all the credit he gets. Was very impressed with Brennan also, a much more aggressive performance than i expected and equally feel Tom Bacon rode far better than his points suggested, led Adam Ellis for 3 1/2 laps which is no mean feat.

[*JJ]

It is up to the respective managers to declare the correct team, this rule would not have got past big Glen. Drury should know, understand and carry out the rules as they stand, not take it on himself that because that rule has been broken six times this season that he should assume the rule was not being enforced. He has managed to use the rules to his own divide this season, keeping those two at reserve, slowing the meeting down on purpose at Kent so as to win with the aid of the curfew.

These are simply not true. Smith and JPB stayed at reserve because their averages were the lowest!

[uk_martin]

Has there been a thread this year involving the Birmingham Brummies that got to 7 pages before? Did the Kent thread get this much interest?

[Countershaftcounter]

If as rumours suggest that Lakeside will be joining the NL next season, I can't' see Drury hanging onto Zach next year.

[kitten2502]

If as rumours suggest that Lakeside will be joining the NL next season, I can't' see Drury hanging onto Zach next year.

Not expecting him back regardless tbh.

[Sings4Speedway]

Zach was having a solid but unspectacular year before it was brought to a close by injury. Dropped a point off his starting average and given the progress of several others i suspect they will be in higher demand to stay than Waj.

[Guest GiveusaB]

Not expecting him back regardless tbh.

I would'nt want to hold any 'young' rider back....I'd wish any one of our riders the very best if they decided to ride elsewhere in order to further their careers!

After Tony Moles announcement last week, I'm not sure what to make of our future, let alone the rider's ?

[Halifaxtiger]

So now we have the facts.

 

Eastbourne didn't protest - they said so.

 

Birmingham have accepted that Eastbourne didn't protest-

 

from Brummies website is posted

 

 

Despite no official complaints from the Eastbourne management, SCB referee Paul Carrington brought into question the eligibility of guest No.1 James Shanes under the ‘eight day’ ruling after contact with home supporters just 30 minutes before start-time, and Shanes was subsequently prevented from riding.

 

Its clear that Eastbourne did not say anything and I retract my previous statements. I suspect my informant jumped to an all too obvious conclusion and its also clear that he was far from the only one.

 

Lets give Eastbourne a bit of credit, then. Apparently they had an 'inkling' that the Brummies team was illegal but would have gone ahead anyway. To me, that makes them far from the win at all costs club they have been made out to be on occasion.

JPB was outstanding and fully deserves all the credit he gets. Was very impressed with Brennan also, a much more aggressive performance than i expected and equally feel Tom Bacon rode far better than his points suggested, led Adam Ellis for 3 1/2 laps which is no mean feat.

 

Seen him ride several times this season and was always impressed. Sunday night, though, was by far the best of the lot.

 

The rulebook is crystal clear? You do know we are talking about the 'speedway' rule book dont you?

And even if, as you say, it is crystal clear, there is such a thing as precedent. There have been, as the Eastbourne promotion agree, no less than five times this year that this has been waived in the NL. If it wasnt to be waived this time then Birmingham should have been given time to find a replacement. No this was timed to cause maximum damage to Birminghams hopes of getting the treble. Eastbourne say it wasnt them (and I have no reason to not believe them) so this must have come from on high.

 

Have to say well done to Eastbourne. I dont think the inclusion of James Shanes would have changed the result but it would surely have made it closer.

 

You have got be kidding. Which part of that rule isn't clear ?

 

Even if it has been broken 5 times - and no-one can say when - breaking it for a 6th time still isn't right and the referee was correct to enforce it, and a precedent is when there is a lack of clarity exists -which it doesn't here.

 

The pity is enforcing it came far too late.

[GASBLOKE]

 

So no illegal guests listed in those instances.

 

 

At least you tried to find broken rules...... but failed.

Fair Play mate. I hail to your greater knowledge. I'll try again.

These are simply not true. Smith and JPB stayed at reserve because their averages were the lowest!

And Kent ?

[stevec]

Such a shame really that the two second legs of the finals turned out to be a bit of a let down.

 

First of all, congrats to the worthy NL champions (wrong thread I know but I wanted to make one post) Birmingham have been brilliant all year and deserve to be champions. I really hope the fans that wrote them off months ago and even more so in recent weeks are happy now. And just maybe, the likes of JPB have proven that you CAN ride our track without being a home rider.

 

However, both the finals were a let down for me based on missing riders. I get that Georgie need to be with his Mrs for the PO second leg (btw, she was being induced that day) but it was such a shame we could not get a good replacement. We were always going to struggle with a 3 man team.

 

So I get to Arlington ready for us to turn Birmingham over BIG TIME. As much as I like a close meeting I was expecting us to pretty much have it wrapped up by heat 10. But then they announce that James Shanes cant ride. Unbelievable! Here we all were talking about this on social media....we even assumed thats why Eastie did not use Connor Coles at Brumland but here we are being told what we already know. Yes, the Arlington massive all cheered (all 5 of them) but most of us were looking at each other in disbelieve. They may have well announced 'we are really sorry but we are going to take away your entertainment tonight and dish up a second rate product and take away any chance of a battle for the KO cup.

 

So we go in to heat one with 3 riders. Wonderful. What a bore this match will be.

 

But hell, Someone must have forgotten to tell JPB the plot! Did no-one tell him that the plan was for Birmingham to win the League and Eastbourne to win the KO cup? I am not sure I have ever enjoyed a performance by an away rider so much. Just brilliant. He single-handedly dished up something worth watching and had us nervously looking at the race programme and I really hope the Brummie fans that came down found it worth while. Also hope they ignored the ONE Eastbourne fan chanting 'who are ya' at them. The NL Champions thats who! And quite possibly the KO champions had they not been robbed of their highly entertaining guest.

 

So yeh, I walked away feeling a bit down on Sunday. Not really sure why. I think I was gutted that we could not have made the PO second leg final closer...because of a missing rider and I felt a bit down that we won the KO cup against a team that also had a rider missing. I spose you could say that evened things out but somehow that didnt help.

[gazzac]

Such a shame really that the two second legs of the finals turned out to be a bit of a let down.

 

First of all, congrats to the worthy NL champions (wrong thread I know but I wanted to make one post) Birmingham have been brilliant all year and deserve to be champions. I really hope the fans that wrote them off months ago and even more so in recent weeks are happy now. And just maybe, the likes of JPB have proven that you CAN ride our track without being a home rider.

 

However, both the finals were a let down for me based on missing riders. I get that Georgie need to be with his Mrs for the PO second leg (btw, she was being induced that day) but it was such a shame we could not get a good replacement. We were always going to struggle with a 3 man team.

 

So I get to Arlington ready for us to turn Birmingham over BIG TIME. As much as I like a close meeting I was expecting us to pretty much have it wrapped up by heat 10. But then they announce that James Shanes cant ride. Unbelievable! Here we all were talking about this on social media....we even assumed thats why Eastie did not use Connor Coles at Brumland but here we are being told what we already know. Yes, the Arlington massive all cheered (all 5 of them) but most of us were looking at each other in disbelieve. They may have well announced 'we are really sorry but we are going to take away your entertainment tonight and dish up a second rate product and take away any chance of a battle for the KO cup.

 

So we go in to heat one with 3 riders. Wonderful. What a bore this match will be.

 

But hell, Someone must have forgotten to tell JPB the plot! Did no-one tell him that the plan was for Birmingham to win the League and Eastbourne to win the KO cup? I am not sure I have ever enjoyed a performance by an away rider so much. Just brilliant. He single-handedly dished up something worth watching and had us nervously looking at the race programme and I really hope the Brummie fans that came down found it worth while. Also hope they ignored the ONE Eastbourne fan chanting 'who are ya' at them. The NL Champions thats who! And quite possibly the KO champions had they not been robbed of their highly entertaining guest.

 

So yeh, I walked away feeling a bit down on Sunday. Not really sure why. I think I was gutted that we could not have made the PO second leg final closer...because of a missing rider and I felt a bit down that we won the KO cup against a team that also had a rider missing. I spose you could say that evened things out but somehow that didnt help.

Spot on post, exactly how we felt.

[Halifaxtiger]

Who dobbed in Birmingham and Shanes? Looking through this thread and other social media, the answer is clear: those who use social media and this forum.

 

They saw what was going on and flagged it up.

 

I saw the first mention midweek.

 

I am not the first person to say that it was fan "power" that ensured the rules were obeyed.

 

Not sure the clubs saw a problem until this forum and others ran up the red flag.

 

Power of the internet.

 

Edited: Just to say JPB was stunning.

 

Come on, Richard.

 

That would be to suggest that they actually read and take notice of what we say