World Final Draws

[lucifer sam]

I was the same out of all the Americans Hamill was never a favourite of mine but i admired what he achieved.The era from 82/88 was robbed in my view with Penhall,Lee,Sigalos,Sanders,Carter all going for whatever reason could it have been differerent? would Hans/Erik still won seven titles between them who knows!!!

 

Sid, but you can say the same about any era.

 

To play devil's advocate for a second, what about Briggo? Did he get a bit lucky? Ronnie Moore was the class rider for a few years, topping the National League averages, winning the World title in 1954, and finishing second in '55/'56. He retired in 1957 to try his hand in stock cars, only returning in mid-1958. Briggo won his first two World titles in these years.

 

By the time that Briggo won his third title in 1964, Moore had retired again and Peter Craven was dead. Fundin was more-or-less in semi-retirement after the closure of Norwich in 1964. And Ove was suspended from the 1966 final, where Briggo won title No 4.

 

Was Briggo actually the fourth best of the 'big five' and lucky to win more titles than Moore and Craven?

 

Just to point out again that I'm playing devil's advocate and Briggo was obviously a great rider.

 

Vic Duggan? Jack Parker?

 

Less sure about Parker, but Duggan has to be in the top ten, if not top five.

 

All the best

Rob

 

PS Norbold, while researching the New Cross moments for the forthcoming Classic Speedway (including reading a rather good book called Out Of The Frying Pan), I've decided Jack Milne was the best of the pre-war speedway riders. Showed consistency in '37 and '38 that no other rider matched pre-war. I think I'd place Mr Farndon in third behind Mr Milne and Mr Wilkinson. But even across a relatively short period, it's so hard to judge, because e.g. Farndon and Milne's careers did not coincide.

Edited November 15, 2016 by lucifer sam

[Sidney the robin]

Vic Duggan? Jack Parker?

Farndon where would he rate very high up i presume, Jack Young also for me sometimes gets forgotten a class act Duggan did look silky smooth on a bike.

[norbold]

Norbold, while researching the New Cross moments for the forthcoming Classic Speedway (including reading a rather good book called Out Of The Frying Pan), I've decided Jack Milne was the best of the pre-war speedway riders. Showed consistency in '37 and '38 that no other rider matched pre-war. I think I'd place Mr Farndon in third behind Mr Milne and Mr Wilkinson. But even across a relatively short period, it's so hard to judge, because e.g. Farndon and Milne's careers did not coincide.

 

It is difficult to judge because, of course, Tom Farndon still had many years in front of him, so we'll never really know. Of the other two, personally I would put Wilkinson in front of Milne, if only for the reason that he was the rider that Farndon seemed to have the most problem with, but, as you say, Farndon and Milne's careers didn't overlap.

 

The other rider who surprised me somewhat when I did some research was Lionel Van Praag. His win in the first World Championship has always been devalued and he seems to have been dismissed as a "great" firstly by the fact that Wilkinson got a maximum on the night and Van Praag only won by virtue of points carried forward, secondly because the final was at his home track, thirdly because he had a reputation of being a bit of a joker and not taking the sport seriously and finally because of the controversy surrounding the run-off with Eric Langton. However, when I was researching for my Wembley book, I discovered that for the last four seasons of the 1930s he was a 10+ man, and, I'd say, definitely one of the all time greats.

 

Farndon where would he rate very high up i presume, Jack Young also for me sometimes gets forgotten a class act Duggan did look silky smooth on a bike.

I think most people know my view on Tom Farndon....if not, I can recommend a very good book on the subject!

 

When I started going to speedway in 1960, I got talking to many "old-timers", who had been going to speedway for many years. I think, without exception, all of them expressed the opinion that Vic Duggan was the greatest rider they ever saw. Jack Young was generally reckoned their number two.

Edited November 15, 2016 by norbold

[steve roberts]

 

 

It is difficult to judge because, of course, Tom Farndon still had many years in front of him, so we'll never really know. Of the other two, personally I would put Wilkinson in front of Milne, if only for the reason that he was the rider that Farndon seemed to have the most problem with, but, as you say, Farndon and Milne's careers didn't overlap.

 

The other rider who surprised me somewhat when I did some research was Lionel Van Praag. His win in the first World Championship has always been devalued and he seems to have been dismissed as a "great" firstly by the fact that Wilkinson got a maximum on the night and Van Praag only won by virtue of points carried forward, secondly because the final was at his home track, thirdly because he had a reputation of being a bit of a joker and not taking the sport seriously and finally because of the controversy surrounding the run-off with Eric Langton. However, when I was researching for my Wembley book, I discovered that for the last four seasons of the 1930s he was a 10+ man, and, I'd say, definitely one of the all time greats.

 

I think most people know my view on Tom Farndon....if not, I can recommend a very good book on the subject!

 

When I started going to speedway in 1960, I got talking to many "old-timers", who had been going to speedway for many years. I think, without exception, all of them expressed the opinion that Vic Duggan was the greatest rider they ever saw. Jack Young was generally reckoned their number two.

How I would have enjoyed watching all those great pioneering riders!

[Sidney the robin]

Eric Langton, and Eric Chitty were two riders i enjoyed looking back in time with when collecting my memorabilia.Arthur Forrest in the 50s was another one what was he aged 16/17 ? at the start he was one exciting rider a thrillster.

[waiheke1]

Vic Duggan? Jack Parker?

Good call, tbh I'd forgotten about those 3 post war years without world chsmpionships. Yeah, both of those would be in my top 20, not top 10 though.

Top 10 for me would be Mauger t rick funding nielsen Briggs Hancock crump olsen Moore penhall, though order could change on a daily basis, and those latter two could be alternated with riders like tai, Craven, gundersen etc.

[Sidney the robin]

Sid, but you can say the same about any era.

 

To play devil's advocate for a second, what about Briggo? Did he get a bit lucky? Ronnie Moore was the class rider for a few years, topping the National League averages, winning the World title in 1954, and finishing second in '55/'56. He retired in 1957 to try his hand in stock cars, only returning in mid-1958. Briggo won his first two World titles in these years.

 

By the time that Briggo won his third title in 1964, Moore had retired again and Peter Craven was dead. Fundin was more-or-less in semi-retirement after the closure of Norwich in 1964. And Ove was suspended from the 1966 final, where Briggo won title No 4.

 

Was Briggo actually the fourth best of the 'big five' and lucky to win more titles than Moore and Craven?

 

Just to point out again that I'm playing devil's advocate and Briggo was obviously a great rider.

 

 

 

Less sure about Parker, but Duggan has to be in the top ten, if not top five.

 

All the best

Rob

 

PS Norbold, while researching the New Cross moments for the forthcoming Classic Speedway (including reading a rather good book called Out Of The Frying Pan), I've decided Jack Milne was the best of the pre-war speedway riders. Showed consistency in '37 and '38 that no other rider matched pre-war. I think I'd place Mr Farndon in third behind Mr Milne and Mr Wilkinson. But even across a relatively short period, it's so hard to judge, because e.g. Farndon and Milne's careers did not coincide.

Good post Sam valid points about Briggo and we all know how good Mirac was sometimes i often wonder did he realise how good he was.

Good call, tbh I'd forgotten about those 3 post war years without world chsmpionships. Yeah, both of those would be in my top 20, not top 10 though.

Top 10 for me would be Mauger t rick funding nielsen Briggs Hancock crump olsen Moore penhall, though order could change on a daily basis, and those latter two could be alternated with riders like tai, Craven, gundersen etc.

top 10 no order Mauger,Briggo,Fundin,Moore,Olsen,Rick,Nielsen,Duggan,Young, Craven,like you said we could change our mind daily.

[norbold]

i just wrote out my top 10, then looked at your post, Sydney, and discovered they were exactly the same 10!

[Sidney the robin]

i just wrote out my top 10, then looked at your post, Sydney, and discovered they were exactly the same 10!

No way Norbold 😀 unreal really, i bet you could make a case for another ten if you wanted to.!!! Bluey, Crump(since he was 16 was my favourite modern day rider) Gundo would be in the mix as well really hard. Edited November 16, 2016 by Sidney the robin

[waiheke1]

Big call to leave crump out of the top 10 imo, given his record of 10 consecutive podium finishes. Not something I would think even the likes of olsen and craven would have achieved under a gp system imho.

[Sidney the robin]

Big call to leave crump out of the top 10 imo, given his record of 10 consecutive podium finishes. Not something I would think even the likes of olsen and craven would have achieved under a gp system imho.

Olsen for me is now well underated he would always be in my top 6 probably, Crump was superb followed him from 16 years of age when doing a top ten it is so hard .Craven forget about the GP he could of won a MINIMUM of another two one off world finals it is all hyphetical i suppose. Edited November 16, 2016 by Sidney the robin

[waiheke1]

Not sure olsen is under rated. Think most would agree he was the 2nd best rider of his era and in the top 10 post war riders.

Under a gp system he would likely have won more medals, but same or fewer world champs?

How good were Crimps opening 3 GP rides as a wildcard at Hackney?

[Sidney the robin]

Not sure olsen is under rated. Think most would agree he was the 2nd best rider of his era and in the top 10 post war riders.

Under a gp system he would likely have won more medals, but same or fewer world champs?

How good were Crimps opening 3 GP rides as a wildcard at Hackney?

Olsen only won it three times,he would be in front of Pedersen and Hancock for me he is never really mentioned but as you said would be in SOME peoples top ten not convinced everybody now would put him there i would though easily.

[lucifer sam]

Not necessarily in this order, but I'd go for: Fundin, Mauger, Nielsen, Duggan, Penhall, Gundersen, Rickardsson, Moore, Craven and Briggs. On a different day, I might include Young, Crump, Milne or Wilkinson.

 

PS Norbold, I agree regarding Lionel Van Praag - a much better rider than he's given credit for!

 

All the best

Rob