Speedway Agm

[IronScorpion]

The SpeedwayGB twitter feed states the "The minimum average for foreign riders is now 4"

 

Does that mean new riders or riders that are still assessed at 5 will now have a true average but not lower than 4 in 2017?

Edited November 9, 2016 by IronScorpion

[New Science]

i think they should go back to the old style TS when 6 pts behind replace a rider normal pts gives team managers room to work and keep meeting alive

with out silly double pts

ALL this would give is teams building top heavy. Why should a team manager have the option of putting his 2 star riders in heats 13, 14 and 15 if trailing by 10 points. Ive seen it done many times 3 five ones in a row to win the match by 2 "ITS DAYLIGHT ROBBERY" just as unfair as double points in my opinion .I'm all for tac subs replacing double points but mot in the form it was.

[Bagpuss]

Could be limited to one per heat, none after heat 11 and only when you are ten down. For example.

[waiheke1]

Could be limited to one per heat, none after heat 11 and only when you are ten down. For example.

I wouldn't apply a heat cut off, but would agree with the rest.

[Humphrey Appleby]

Could be limited to one per heat, none after heat 11 and only when you are ten down.

There may be reasons to introduce two tactical subs in one heat, such as to cover injuries. Also not sure why you'd want to have a cut-off as if you make the points gap enough, then the cut-off will effectively be 2 or 3 heats before the end anyway.

 

If you want to limit the impact tactical subs, then make it 8 points down (so at least two heat maximums to catch up) and limit to 2 or 3 substitutions in total.

Edited November 9, 2016 by Humphrey Appleby

[waiheke1]

There may be reasons to introduce two tactical subs in one heat, such as to cover injuries. Also not sure why you'd want to have a cut-off as if you make the points gap enough, then the cut-off will effectively be 2 or 3 heats before the end anyway.

 

If you want to limit the impact tactical subs, then make it 8 points down (so at least two heat maximums to catch up) and limit to 2 or 3 substitutions in total.

To cover injuries you would use IRR, not tactical subs.

10 points down, one per heat, 3 per meeting would be my restrictions (and not before heat 5).

[mike1944]

And who wants to be at a meeting rushed through in great haste to finish within a hour. Dream on, the meeting needs track preparation and some sort of purpose, rather that a rush to get the punters out of the stadium as quick as possible. If it was tried it would possibly put people off attending another meeting. Hardly in speedways interests or the Fans. Minimum time would be something like 90 minutes IMO.

I was not advocating rushing a meeting through but pointing out that the actual racing and necessary preparation took so little actual time. If the presentation was too slick it would be over and done in a very short time. This has been proved in some of the televised Swedish edited matches even when they do manage to fit all the heats in. The punters need more than just this for the admission that is charged and that does not necessarily mean wasting time, but providing some sort of entertainment, maybe a few heats after the main meeting showing junior and reserve riders. Another idea is a lap or honour by the winning rider round the whole track not a rush shortcut back to the pits. I also notice that in Swedish meetings the centre green is filled up with advertising boards but our tracks appear to do very little like that whatever income they brought in would help

[Starman2006]

I was not advocating rushing a meeting through but pointing out that the actual racing and necessary preparation took so little actual time. If the presentation was too slick it would be over and done in a very short time. This has been proved in some of the televised Swedish edited matches even when they do manage to fit all the heats in. The punters need more than just this for the admission that is charged and that does not necessarily mean wasting time, but providing some sort of entertainment, maybe a few heats after the main meeting showing junior and reserve riders. Another idea is a lap or honour by the winning rider round the whole track not a rush shortcut back to the pits. I also notice that in Swedish meetings the centre green is filled up with advertising boards but our tracks appear to do very little like that whatever income they brought in would help

Same applies in Poland they get plenty of sponsorship. We dont do bad at Poole either funnily enough..

[stevehone]

don't treat some of them too well though according to sponsors themselves!

also wondering why Rick & Julie haven't stayed too long

[Starman2006]

don't treat some of them too well though according to sponsors themselves!

also wondering why Rick & Julie haven't stayed too long

It was a two year deal. Its there obligation to call it a day if they want to.

[waiheke1]

Deleted

Edited November 9, 2016 by waihekeaces1

[Pirates Of Poole]

So which riders are actually a 2.00?

[Skid Sprocket]

I was not advocating rushing a meeting through but pointing out that the actual racing and necessary preparation took so little actual time. If the presentation was too slick it would be over and done in a very short time. This has been proved in some of the televised Swedish edited matches even when they do manage to fit all the heats in. The punters need more than just this for the admission that is charged and that does not necessarily mean wasting time, but providing some sort of entertainment, maybe a few heats after the main meeting showing junior and reserve riders. Another idea is a lap or honour by the winning rider round the whole track not a rush shortcut back to the pits. I also notice that in Swedish meetings the centre green is filled up with advertising boards but our tracks appear to do very little like that whatever income they brought in would help

 

You could always revert to that old, almost lost, art of conversation when there is a moment to spare. One thing speedway is good at is the friendly banter between opposing supporters, not found in all sports. The opposing supporter stood/sat next to you could be the friend you just haven't met yet!!

[Gresham]

Whilst I agree with many your points, I don't really think there's a inherent problem in it being a team/individual multi-format thing. I don't have much interest in individual racing and I think it's bad for long-term continuity. It's okay occasionally though, provided the riders still have links to teams.

 

Being able to watch a league match, 4TT, pairs or whatever was part of the appeal for me and is what originally made speedway more interesting over others. In addition, whilst the sport can be watched at a simple level (4 riders 4 laps), the multiple levels of complexity also add intrigue once you've got beyond that.

 

You can draw parallels with cricket which is a much more popular sport globally. It's simple at a basic level, but you spend a lifetime learning the nuances if you want. And it has multiple formats as well - T20, ODIs and Test matches - all played in different ways. There's even an individual format - single wicket cricket - which is almost unheard of nowadays but which every kid has played and which used to be popular professionally.

 

Yes, riders competing for different teams (and the SGP/SEC) isn't ideal, but it's currently necessary because of economic realities. Furthermore, even cricketers are now competing in multiple T20 competitions, and even years ago would overwinter playing in Australia, South Africa or wherever.​ Surely the economic realities have come about because of the demise of domestic Speedway? Then you have the ever increasing costs of maintaining engines, which could easily be cut if more regulations and restrictions were put in place. As for Cricket...very similar to Speedway. Club County Cricket is dying on it's feet...T20 and Internationals still have a following...the same could be said of our GP's. And like Speedway, Cricket has a bigger following now abroad.

 

I don't think the corporate team idea is such a great development, but it's hardly unknown in other forms of motor racing, cycling or even football in some places. And don't tennis players use their own equipment?

​Think you missed the point a little fella...comparing other sports like Tennis and something like Golf is futile...they don't have the maintenance and running costs like Speedway does. You only have to read this thread to see AGAIN how confusing the whole situation has become again. Tinkering with averages may help in the long term with trying to make teams in both leagues closer to one another...but it's not going to make a difference to costs incurred by riders, or get extra people through the turnstiles. The rebranding I should imagine is just done for SKY's sake.

 

​For me, I would say Speedway has now found it's level. It won't get any more people through the door like in the past. I really can't see past the fact that for the majority of newcomers, they see four blokes going round in circles, and that the person who usually gates first's...wins. They enjoy the novelty at first...but there is nothing that really excites them or makes them want to come back.

 

​I've taken numerous new people to the sport over the years, and whilst they have enjoyed the novelty, non of them to a person have become hooked or have asked to go again.

 

​Most of us are older and have been hooked from the halcyon days and have it in our blood.

 

​I'd bet that if you looked at the age of people at meetings, the majority would be over 50.

 

​When I see how few youngsters there are, I can't help but think that Club Speedway will keep getting smaller and smaller as time goes on.

 

​To survive...Speedway needs to attract new people...it isn't imo. Maybe in some cases...like Glasgow...but generally it isn't.

 

​The AGM should be focusing on that at reducing costs imo....although I can see the move in averages is maybe someway of slowly making costs reduced...but imo, something more drastic needs to take place.

[steve roberts]

 

Whilst I agree with many your points, I don't really think there's a inherent problem in it being a team/individual multi-format thing. I don't have much interest in individual racing and I think it's bad for long-term continuity. It's okay occasionally though, provided the riders still have links to teams.

 

Being able to watch a league match, 4TT, pairs or whatever was part of the appeal for me and is what originally made speedway more interesting over others. In addition, whilst the sport can be watched at a simple level (4 riders 4 laps), the multiple levels of complexity also add intrigue once you've got beyond that.

 

You can draw parallels with cricket which is a much more popular sport globally. It's simple at a basic level, but you spend a lifetime learning the nuances if you want. And it has multiple formats as well - T20, ODIs and Test matches - all played in different ways. There's even an individual format - single wicket cricket - which is almost unheard of nowadays but which every kid has played and which used to be popular professionally.

 

Yes, riders competing for different teams (and the SGP/SEC) isn't ideal, but it's currently necessary because of economic realities. Furthermore, even cricketers are now competing in multiple T20 competitions, and even years ago would overwinter playing in Australia, South Africa or wherever.​ Surely the economic realities have come about because of the demise of domestic Speedway? Then you have the ever increasing costs of maintaining engines, which could easily be cut if more regulations and restrictions were put in place. As for Cricket...very similar to Speedway. Club County Cricket is dying on it's feet...T20 and Internationals still have a following...the same could be said of our GP's. And like Speedway, Cricket has a bigger following now abroad.

 

I don't think the corporate team idea is such a great development, but it's hardly unknown in other forms of motor racing, cycling or even football in some places. And don't tennis players use their own equipment?

​Think you missed the point a little fella...comparing other sports like Tennis and something like Golf is futile...they don't have the maintenance and running costs like Speedway does. You only have to read this thread to see AGAIN how confusing the whole situation has become again. Tinkering with averages may help in the long term with trying to make teams in both leagues closer to one another...but it's not going to make a difference to costs incurred by riders, or get extra people through the turnstiles. The rebranding I should imagine is just done for SKY's sake.

 

​For me, I would say Speedway has now found it's level. It won't get any more people through the door like in the past. I really can't see past the fact that for the majority of newcomers, they see four blokes going round in circles, and that the person who usually gates first's...wins. They enjoy the novelty at first...but there is nothing that really excites them or makes them want to come back.

 

​I've taken numerous new people to the sport over the years, and whilst they have enjoyed the novelty, non of them to a person have become hooked or have asked to go again.

 

​Most of us are older and have been hooked from the halcyon days and have it in our blood.

 

​I'd bet that if you looked at the age of people at meetings, the majority would be over 50.

 

​When I see how few youngsters there are, I can't help but think that Club Speedway will keep getting smaller and smaller as time goes on.

 

​To survive...Speedway needs to attract new people...it isn't imo. Maybe in some cases...like Glasgow...but generally it isn't.

 

​The AGM should be focusing on that at reducing costs imo....although I can see the move in averages is maybe someway of slowly making costs reduced...but imo, something more drastic needs to take place.

 

Good post!

[Humphrey Appleby]

​For me, I would say Speedway has now found it's level. It won't get any more people through the door like in the past. I really can't see past the fact that for the majority of newcomers, they see four blokes going round in circles, and that the person who usually gates first's...wins. They enjoy the novelty at first...but there is nothing that really excites them or makes them want to come back.

Speedway attracted more people once, so could presumably do so again. How you do that is the big question of course, but it's currently a poor value-for-money sport with an old fashioned image and ageing demographic. Until and unless that's addressed somehow, then I do think it's basically finished as a professional sport.

 

Unfortunately, so many things count against it. The 'playing surface' is expensive and requires skilled labour to maintain, meetings are heavily affected by the weather, the necessary equipment and consumables are proprietary and very expensive as a result, and there's little opportunity for conventional merchandising. That's even before you get to the rundown stadiums where it all takes place, and the sheer undercapitalisation of the sport that makes it very hard to invest in improvements.

 

I feel ultimately the sport in Britain needs to rebuild from a much lower level and lower cost base, and try to appeal to a completely new audience with maybe a completely refreshed format. It probably wouldn't appeal to the traditionalists, but they're becoming fewer and fewer as every year passes anyway.

[JOS50]

Speedway attracted more people once, so could presumably do so again. How you do that is the big question of course, but it's currently a poor value-for-money sport with an old fashioned image and ageing demographic. Until and unless that's addressed somehow, then I do think it's basically finished as a professional sport.

 

Unfortunately, so many things count against it. The 'playing surface' is expensive and requires skilled labour to maintain, meetings are heavily affected by the weather, the necessary equipment and consumables are proprietary and very expensive as a result, and there's little opportunity for conventional merchandising. That's even before you get to the rundown stadiums where it all takes place, and the sheer undercapitalisation of the sport that makes it very hard to invest in improvements.

 

I feel ultimately the sport in Britain needs to rebuild from a much lower level and lower cost base, and try to appeal to a completely new audience with maybe a completely refreshed format. It probably wouldn't appeal to the traditionalists, but they're becoming fewer and fewer as every year passes anyway.

A few comments on our sport's aged problem...many years ago my idea for speedway was to make the music so good they'd come for it on it's own. Swindon's p.a. originally was a top class Tannoy, you couldn't get much better, for most people in the1950/60's it would be the best sound system they'd heard. It was a great place to listen to music. They often had a group playing after the the meeting in the bar.

 

As for Grandad's music it's making a lot of money in the auction houses right now, certain genres kids are desparate for and

thanks to em vinyl records are exalted. There's nothing uncool with your Rock n Roll, Ska, Soul. Blues, Reggae and even Jazz

it forms the basis of what they dance to now. For many years now I've argued long and hard for the causes of Speedway and Hillbilly music, in many peoples eyes, just about the two most uncool things you could mention. Right now Country music is finally cool! everyones doing it, gotta make you smile. If Country can do it so can Speedway, possibly.

 

Oh yeah another thing, the far right tried to hijack country music and failed miserably, hope the same can be said for dirttrackuk.

P.S. Oxford had a good sound too, back then.

Edited November 14, 2016 by JOS50

[Ghosty]

Team strengths/ averages etc. It would seem that the BSPA have not thought through the new team averages for our new leagues for 2017.

I think it would have made more sense to firstly tell the riders what's on offer i.e. points money, number of meetings etc. then get a commitment from the riders to participate in 2017 U.K. speedway. ONLY THEN can you determine team strengths, conversion rates for averages, amount of double up/down to allow etc.

 

It's not rocket science to know that in the perfect speedway world the average rider is 6.00 (50%) an unbeatable rider is 12.00 (100%) a very poor rider beating no-one is 0.00 (0%).

The average team is 42.00 (50%) that is the figure you should gear your points limit & conversion rates around once you have determined what strength you want your leagues to be.

 

It is not possible for a rider to have an average higher than 12.00 (100%). Speedways points average is a fantastic toll to determine team strengths - something many other sports would love to have so lets use it wisely & to its advantages.

[Ghosty]

Team strengths/ averages etc. It would seem that the BSPA have not thought through the new team averages for our new leagues for 2017.

I think it would have made more sense to firstly tell the riders what's on offer i.e. points money, number of meetings etc. then get a commitment from the riders to participate in 2017 U.K. speedway. ONLY THEN can you determine team strengths, conversion rates for averages, amount of double up/down to allow etc.

 

It's not rocket science to know that in the perfect speedway world the average rider is 6.00 (50%) an unbeatable rider is 12.00 (100%) a very poor rider beating no-one is 0.00 (0%).

The average team is 42.00 (50%) that is the figure you should gear your points limit & conversion rates around once you have determined what strength you want your leagues to be.

 

It is not possible for a rider to have an average higher than 12.00 (100%). Speedways points average is a fantastic toll to determine team strengths - something many other sports would love to have so lets use it wisely & to its advantages.

Sorry I seem to have put a stop on "the AGM" I also think the proposed Premiership & Championship strengths are to close, I think any current "Premier rider" with average of 8.00+ should be in with the big boys. "Forced" promotion will not work.