Speedway Agm

[Froglord]

Some of the big 'ideas' that were mentioned many times by promoters in the press over the last 12 months haven't been mentioned at all. I'm referring to the squad system, apparently to attract back big names; one or two race nights for top flight clubs and the issue of guests. Can anyone shed any light on these topics?

 

Cheers.

[martinmauger]

 

Doubling up is not new. When I first started to watch in 1975/76 I seem to remember the Owen brothers "guesting" for 1st division Hull on numerous occasions. I agree the rules regarding it need looking at tho.

 

True, but not as many meetings as these days, more clubs & more matches in those days. Think (without checking progs) Hull could only use either Owen say 8 times I remember dispensation was applied to BSPA / SCB for to use Joe for most of the season(s) but it was refused. Agree with the point though: not enough riders to go round and the number doubling, and even tripling up, is too many....

 

[g13webb]

No riders, no fans is the same thing.

 

Wow !! you're missing the point here. A big point... The riders are financed by the fans and the paying public, if there were no FANS and support, then riders would not have the facility to race. Whereas if there were no riders the fans would spend their monies in supporting other ways. The finances dictate the importance of the situation. A riders needs the fans input, Its the supporter who has the deciding choice.......

I understand the importance of D/U but implementing it causes many problems. I get the impression every rider wants to race in as many matches as possible. This obviously has its draw backs and effect the riders body and soul. How can he possibly give 100% to every race would he is feeling tired and knackered. But their availability is the governing factor. With the best will in the world there will always be fixture clashes where the parent club takes preference, but if we introduced a rule where there was not guests or RR allowed for these D/U absentees probably clubs would look at DU in a different light.

 

I'm just trying to eliminate the need for Guests and RR except as the extreme emergency cover.....

[CookieIpswich]

This is why a Northern and Southern split with 6 rider teams built to a 38 point limit would have been perfect thats 120 riders which would have included all current EL riders even the GP ones if they wanted to stay up while promoting the top end of the national league, there were enough riders to make this happen with zero doubling up.

 

Yeah guests would still be required but you could limit the number of appearances and only get guests from the opposite region so fans don't see the same riders recycled.

 

Speedway have once again papered over the cracks

[Halifaxtiger]

 

Doubling up is not new. When I first started to watch in 1975/76 I seem to remember the Owen brothers "guesting" for 1st division Hull on numerous occasions. I agree the rules regarding it need looking at tho.

 

You're right, it isn't. Andy Grahame in 1979 is a very good example : he rode the entire season for Birmingham & Milton Keynes.

 

However, as Brian has said its now 'out of control'. You can stomach it with one or maybe two riders, but many have no less than four. Belle Vue : Worrall brothers, Cook, Jacobs. Glasgow : Lawson, Summers, Worrall, Ayres. Somerset : Tungate, Grajczonek, Wright, Starke, Wajtknecht.

 

That's simply too many and means that the use of guests and rider replacement has exploded.

[steve roberts]

 

You're right, it isn't. Andy Grahame in 1979 is a very good example : he rode the entire season for Birmingham & Milton Keynes.

 

However, as Brian has said its now 'out of control'. You can stomach it with one or maybe two riders, but many have no less than four. Belle Vue : Worrall brothers, Cook, Jacobs. Glasgow : Lawson, Summers, Worrall, Ayres. Somerset : Tungate, Grajczonek, Wright, Starke, Wajtknecht.

 

That's simply too many and means that the use of guests and rider replacement has exploded.

Doubling up has been going on for years. When I first attended speedway in 1972 many British League Division One promotions had interests in Division Two and riders often 'doubled up' between the leagues. My team, Oxford and later White City, adopted this system regularly with the likes of Ballard, Kennett, Davis, Gachet, Weatherley, Sampson etc and it was a way of introducing talent gradually before committing to a full season in the upper discipline.

Edited November 5, 2016 by steve roberts

[mikebv]

Having more teams in the top league than both Poland and Sweden does seem strange when people then state it's a struggle to get riders!!

 

Surely an eight team top division would mean more riders to replace injured or underperforming team members without the need for guests and loads of DU's?

 

Same for the second division. Why ten teams? Again eight would have released several riders to be available to replace others..

 

The current 19 team situation means you need to fill 133 positions..

 

A sixteen team two league structure would only need 112....

 

Even better possibly would be to run with six man teams and only need 96 riders in a sixteen team structure..?

 

No DU's (particularly with promotion and relegation), and No Guests would mean real credibility..

 

Wouldn't that be good to see in (British) Speedway?

 

You can guarantee that there will be teams who will struggle from day one due to their team strength.

 

It will adversly effect attendances at both their track and when they go away, and this time next year they will be facing an uncertain future.

 

Simply because they were allowed to compete in a league their infrastructure couldn't afford and had to use 'anyone who looked like he could ride a bike' to fill some of their seven places.

 

Seems a strange plan to set teams up to fail thru a lack of riders at the start of the season and then even less being available to replace underperformers and injuries.

Edited November 5, 2016 by mikebv

[Gresham]

I'm not sure whether this has been covered in another post...but the 'doubling up'...surely is just a way to allow certain riders to make a living, if they are not riding abroad?

 

With the costs of running speedway bikes...is it possible for a rider to make a living, riding for just one team in this country?

 

What also crossed my mind, regarding doubling up...how would it work if the two play off teams for promotion and relegation next season, were in a similar situation to what Swindon and Somerset were this season?

 

If Swindon had finished bottom and Somerset had to race them for Promotion, how would that work? Who would ride for what team? How could you bring in other riders to replace the double ups without making a farce of the sport?

[ch958]

True. But it was still a sort of doubling up .

but they didn't miss any Diamonds fixtures and thats important - Hull could easily turn to others, Newcastle wd have been fkd without them.

[mikebv]

I'm not sure whether this has been covered in another post...but the 'doubling up'...surely is just a way to allow certain riders to make a living, if they are not riding abroad?

 

With the costs of running speedway bikes...is it possible for a rider to make a living, riding for just one team I in this country?

 

What also crossed my mind, regarding doubling up...how would it work if the two play off teams for promotion and relegation next season, were in a similar situation to what Swindon and Somerset were this season?

 

If Swindon had finished bottom and Somerset had to race them for Promotion, how would that work? Who would ride for what team? How could you bring in other riders to replace the double ups without making a farce of the sport?

Half and Half Team Kevlar's mate....☺

 

From the camera on the centre green they would look like they were riding for one team and on the outside cameras the other..😲

Edited November 5, 2016 by mikebv

[Gresham]

Having more teams in the top league than both Poland and Sweden does seem strange when people then state it's a struggle to get riders!!

 

Surely an eight team top division would mean more riders to replace injured or underperforming team members without the need for guests and loads of DU's?

 

Same for the second division. Why ten teams? Again eight would have released several riders to be available to replace others..

 

The current 19 team situation means you need to fill 133 positions..

 

A sixteen team two league structure would only need 112....

 

Even better possibly would be to run with six man teams and only need 96 riders in a sixteen team structure..?

 

No DU's (particularly with promotion and relegation), and No Guests would mean real credibility..

 

Wouldn't that be good to see in (British) Speedway?

 

You can guarantee that there will be teams who will struggle from day one due to their team strength.

 

It will adversly effect attendances at both their track and when they go away, and this time next year they will be facing an uncertain future.

 

Simply because they were allowed to compete in a league their infrastructure couldn't afford and had to use 'anyone who looked like he could ride a bike' to fill some of their seven places.

 

Seems a strange plan to set teams up to fail thru a lack of riders at the start of the season and then even less being available to replace underperformers and injuries.

 

I agree on many of those points...but I think Speedway and many other sports struggle, because of 'society' and the paying publics 'need' to be successful and win at costs all the time.

 

When I see and read about fans going home after the 'main event' and not bothering to support a second half or the novice racers, for me it reflects society.

 

It's the same in football...everyone supports their club....but in fact they don't....the majority support the first team. They have no interest in the Academy or the youngsters. Hence, they get few opportunities to get into the first team and develop. The Clubs end up spending £millions in bringing in tried and tested foreign players.

 

The same happens in speedway. British novice riders get very little help in developing...and most 'fans' don't support them or are interested.

 

Society is fickle....they have to follow something that's successful and wins. Say's more about them as people tbh...something obviously missing in their life.

 

What difference in your life does it make if you are a Poole fan for example....over someone who follows Buxton?

 

Surely as fans of speedway or any sport....it's the sport not the success that makes you happy?

 

Seeing four riders race in the National League and seeing riders develop is just as exciting, if not more, than watching the 'finished article' racing in the GP's or for the elite league title?

 

Someone in an earlier post mentioned that their friends followed football, and that it was purely the result that counted...not the entertainment.

How fecked up is that? Society wants to win...even if it's not entertaining...at all costs. How small minded have we become? What difference does it make in peoples lives? Do wolves fans actually wake up every morning....feeling so much better than every other fan in the country? If they do...they need to get a friggin life imo.

 

Speedway and many other sports, suffer because of this mind set.

 

If Speedway tried to do the right thing...and tried to develop riders into teams, without 'doubling up'...you can bet 'fans' would moan because it's not competitive.

 

It's a catch 22...speedway and other sports can't win....because of the 'expectation' of success over Entertainment by a great majority of the fans.

 

If only fans had a mentality of 'so what if we lost...it was entertaining, and good to see all the riders trying their best'.

[Starman2006]

 

Wow !! you're missing the point here. A big point... The riders are financed by the fans and the paying public, if there were no FANS and support, then riders would not have the facility to race. Whereas if there were no riders the fans would spend their monies in supporting other ways. The finances dictate the importance of the situation. A riders needs the fans input, Its the supporter who has the deciding choice.......

Not a truer statement made...

[R87]

Pretty clear that this restructure is primarily aimed at reducing costs, which is all well and good.

 

However, there also has to be some form of drive to bring in revenue as well. Simply cutting costs will ultimately mean you run out of things to cut.

 

I would certainly hope that the BSPA are actively searching for a major sponsor for both the Premiership & Championship?

[speedibee]

 

Good thinking, marky!

 

Just remind me.........what are the plus points.

 

 

Good thinking, marky!

 

Just remind me.........what are the plus points.

 

Oh come on thumper ,promotion and relegation . that's a massive plus . it's never been tried before and we all know the championship teams will be busting a gut to get promoted come October . hahahahaha ..... Its the only way to get into the top league (Whatever it's called this week) so why wouldn't they want to ?......... sorry just had a moment there . forgot that they have all been begged already and didn't want to step up

Pretty clear that this restructure is primarily aimed at reducing costs, which is all well and good.

 

However, there also has to be some form of drive to bring in revenue as well. Simply cutting costs will ultimately mean you run out of things to cut.

 

I would certainly hope that the BSPA are actively searching for a major sponsor for both the Premiership & Championship?

they could always divert some of the money they already have in sponsorship from Gospeed and put that into the promoters/riders pockets

[Skid Sprocket]

One change that, although mentioned in posts, hasn't really been challenged and that is why change the names of the two leagues? how is it going to help? I see it as a poor unnecessary change.

[mikebv]

Pretty clear that this restructure is primarily aimed at reducing costs, which is all well and good.

 

However, there also has to be some form of drive to bring in revenue as well. Simply cutting costs will ultimately mean you run out of things to cut.

 

I would certainly hope that the BSPA are actively searching for a major sponsor for both the Premiership & Championship?

One possible revenue driver for me is NOT to sell season tickets..

 

They sell so few anyway that it cannot make a huge difference in providing cash up front pre season and all it does then is prevent 'special offers' being run through the rest of the year as it will p1ss off the ST holders.

 

(And don't forget by definition your ST buyers are your most loyal so will attend anyway!)

 

For me, much better to do individual meeting 'specials' or say blocks of four matches for say £50 in the top league, or even better maybe use a loyalty system where you get tokens in the programme and for every four you collect you get a half price ticket,(or even FREE ENTRY) for the fifth meeting?

 

MUFC used to do tokens in programmes in the seventies and eighties which you collected to be eligible for Cup Final tickets etc. If people bought extra programmes for their mates the programme got opened and the token marked through so couldn't be used!

 

Programme sales were much higher in those days than today as we simply HAD to buy one so Speedway would also benefit from increased programme sales I would suggest..

 

Doing a loyalty scheme will also maybe encourage people to attend matches that currently they wouldn't due to opposition/TV etc...?

 

Maybe also teams should raffle season tickets instead?

 

Say ten tickets released one at a time over the first ten matches?

 

£2 a ticket (or 3 for a fiver?) would generate well over what they would get selling them individually.

 

Last year if BV had done this with an opening night crowd of 2000 and more I would have thought at least half would have bought at least one ticket at £2..

 

An easy £2k for ONE season ticket and probably in reality, much, much more...

 

Another revenue driver is maybe buying a Speedway bike and raffling that all through the year?

 

I went to a Supercross event where on the night you texted in your number (for a Fiver) to win a kids MX machine hanging down on display from the ceiling.

 

The machine was approx worth £1k. They must have had at least 3000 entries looking at how many of the 7000 of us in attendance were texting in at the given moment to do so during the interval...

 

One lucky Dad walked off with a great Xmas present for his lad who he had took with him.

 

And the promoters walked off with a very conservative 10-15k profit I would suggest...!

 

There are lots of revenue drivers if promotions were bothered to work them.

 

Or pay someone on commission to drive them...

Edited November 5, 2016 by mikebv

[Little Thumper]

 

they could always divert some of the money they already have in sponsorship from Gospeed and put that into the promoters/riders pocket

 

Well you can cut out that kind of talk!

 

I've seen promoters riding round in their fancy motors so they must be raking it in.

 

And as for the riders.............in my day, a top rider would strap his speedway bike onto the back of the trusty Citroen estate, throw a few tools in the back and drive off to proudly represent their club wherever it might be.

 

These days even National League riders are turning up in flashy vans and some even have more than one bike!

I am led to believe that some of these people even have hangers-on who drive their fancy transporters and faff about with spanners for them.

 

So, speedibee, it probably best if our illustrious leaders keep their hands on the bulk of this money because they might need it for an urgent re-branding exercise or to buy a large stock of green helmet covers.

 

Be seeing you.

[Starman2006]

 

Well you can cut out that kind of talk!

 

 

 

And as for the riders.............in my day, a top rider would strap his speedway bike onto the back of the trusty Citroen estate, throw a few tools in the back and drive off to proudly represent their club wherever it might be.

 

Remember it well.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Starman2006

[Skid Sprocket]

One possible revenue driver for me is NOT to sell season tickets..

 

They sell so few anyway that it cannot make a huge difference in providing cash up front pre season and all it does then is prevent 'special offers' being run through the rest of the year as it will p1ss off the ST holders.

 

(And don't forget by definition your ST buyers are your most loyal so will attend anyway!)

 

For me, much better to do individual meeting 'specials' or say blocks of four matches for say £50 in the top league, or even better maybe use a loyalty system where you get tokens in the programme and for every four you collect you get a half price ticket,(or even FREE ENTRY) for the fifth meeting?

 

MUFC used to do tokens in programmes in the seventies and eighties which you collected to be eligible for Cup Final tickets etc. If people bought extra programmes for their mates the programme got opened and the token marked through so couldn't be used!

 

Programme sales were much higher in those days than today as we simply HAD to buy one so Speedway would also benefit from increased programme sales I would suggest..

 

Doing a loyalty scheme will also maybe encourage people to attend matches that currently they wouldn't due to opposition/TV etc...?

 

Maybe also teams should raffle season tickets instead?

 

Say ten tickets released one at a time over the first ten matches?

 

£2 a ticket (or 3 for a fiver?) would generate well over what they would get selling them individually.

 

Last year if BV had done this with an opening night crowd of 2000 and more I would have thought at least half would have bought at least one ticket at £2..

 

An easy £2k for ONE season ticket and probably a much, much more...

 

Another revenue driver is maybe buying a Speedway bike and raffling that all through the year?

 

I went to a Supercross event where on the night you texted in your number (for a Fiver) to win a kids MX machine hanging down on display from the ceiling.

 

The machine was approx worth £1k. They must have had at least 3000 entries looking at how many of the 7000 of us in attendance were texting in at the given moment to do so during the interval...

 

One lucky Dad walked off with a great Xmas present for his lad who he had took with him.

 

And the promoters walked off with a very conservative 10-15k profit I would suggest...!

 

There are lots of revenue drivers if promotions were bothered to work them.

 

Or pay someone on commission to drive them...

This must be the best practical forward looking post I have ever seen on these pages.

[ch958]

One possible revenue driver for me is NOT to sell season tickets..

 

They sell so few anyway that it cannot make a huge difference in providing cash up front pre season and all it does then is prevent 'special offers' being run through the rest of the year as it will p1ss off the ST holders.

 

(And don't forget by definition your ST buyers are your most loyal so will attend anyway!)

 

For me, much better to do individual meeting 'specials' or say blocks of four matches for say £50 in the top league, or even better maybe use a loyalty system where you get tokens in the programme and for every four you collect you get a half price ticket,(or even FREE ENTRY) for the fifth meeting?

 

MUFC used to do tokens in programmes in the seventies and eighties which you collected to be eligible for Cup Final tickets etc. If people bought extra programmes for their mates the programme got opened and the token marked through so couldn't be used!

 

Programme sales were much higher in those days than today as we simply HAD to buy one so Speedway would also benefit from increased programme sales I would suggest..

 

Doing a loyalty scheme will also maybe encourage people to attend matches that currently they wouldn't due to opposition/TV etc...?

 

Maybe also teams should raffle season tickets instead?

 

Say ten tickets released one at a time over the first ten matches?

 

£2 a ticket (or 3 for a fiver?) would generate well over what they would get selling them individually.

 

Last year if BV had done this with an opening night crowd of 2000 and more I would have thought at least half would have bought at least one ticket at £2..

 

An easy £2k for ONE season ticket and probably a much, much more...

 

Another revenue driver is maybe buying a Speedway bike and raffling that all through the year?

 

I went to a Supercross event where on the night you texted in your number (for a Fiver) to win a kids MX machine hanging down on display from the ceiling.

 

The machine was approx worth £1k. They must have had at least 3000 entries looking at how many of the 7000 of us in attendance were texting in at the given moment to do so during the interval...

 

One lucky Dad walked off with a great Xmas present for his lad who he had took with him.

 

And the promoters walked off with a very conservative 10-15k profit I would suggest...!

 

There are lots of revenue drivers if promotions were bothered to work them.

 

Or pay someone on commission to drive them...

 

 

also they have mobile numbers to keep in touch with fixture news, offers, etc etc

 

also the other post about increasing revenue - yes of course this is vital but any businessman will tell you cost control is first because that is the one thing you have some control over - you can't always dictate selling (ticket) price - that is largely dictated by the market (ie other things you can spend yr disposable income on)