Little Thumper Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Stashes of money in regards to clubs or as a sport as a whole? There is money in the sport, just not a lot in running a speedway club! https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/04703061/filing-history I see what you are saying, MrMungo! You wouldn't think that importing Jawas could be such a nice little earner. I have it on very good authority that Taffy Owen used to import speedway bikes through Ireland to sell in his Hyde Road emporium. The method that he used could be called "creative and tax efficient". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMungo Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 I missed that. Balance sheet has "Intangible assets" - £10000. Rider contracts possibly? £10000 is the cost of the promotional licence, as per Redcar's notes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 So, perhaps one of my clever friends would have a little look at Buxton's (Buxspeed Ltd.) abbreviated accounts and tell me what all those numbers mean! https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03951057 Many thanks. Not sure why you are so interested in our finances but the hard facts are that every year it is a struggle to make ends meet and ensure all of our bills are paid (which incidentally they are). Some years we have had a shortfall and we have had to find the money to make it up from our personal income. Some years we have a small amount left in cash or in the bank with which to start the next season off as there are plenty of bills even at NL level that need paying before the tapes go up. We have never been a rich club and never will be but with a lot of hard work and some help from our sponsors we have managed to stay afloat. This year we will have to find the money to repay the air fence loan as Buxton Speedway don't have it at this moment in time. We have also had to purchase a new tractor, all extra costs that the club could do without but have to meet to carry on. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Not sure why you are so interested in our finances but the hard facts are that every year it is a struggle to make ends meet and ensure all of our bills are paid (which incidentally they are). Some years we have had a shortfall and we have had to find the money to make it up from our personal income. Some years we have a small amount left in cash or in the bank with which to start the next season off as there are plenty of bills even at NL level that need paying before the tapes go up. We have never been a rich club and never will be but with a lot of hard work and some help from our sponsors we have managed to stay afloat. This year we will have to find the money to repay the air fence loan as Buxton Speedway don't have it at this moment in time. We have also had to purchase a new tractor, all extra costs that the club could do without but have to meet to carry on. Yes and well done Jayne, at least Buxton dont take the easy way out and NOT pay riders.. I dont get an earlier point raised whereby Captains have to sign to say if they have been paid, its not relevant unless the BSPA were to step in and pay the riders, which IMO they should do.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Thumper Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) Not sure why you are so interested in our finances but the hard facts are that every year it is a struggle to make ends meet and ensure all of our bills are paid (which incidentally they are). Some years we have had a shortfall and we have had to find the money to make it up from our personal income. Some years we have a small amount left in cash or in the bank with which to start the next season off as there are plenty of bills even at NL level that need paying before the tapes go up. We have never been a rich club and never will be but with a lot of hard work and some help from our sponsors we have managed to stay afloat. This year we will have to find the money to repay the air fence loan as Buxton Speedway don't have it at this moment in time. We have also had to purchase a new tractor, all extra costs that the club could do without but have to meet to carry on. I was hoping that Jayne would be brave enough to chip into this discussion as she is one of the few (only) promoters who is prepared to express an opinion. I think that the one conclusion that one could draw from this topic is that there is quite a lot of money in speedway but the majority of it is at the top of the pyramid and there is very little at the bottom. Yes, there are one or two promotions where there may be some interesting accounting practices but sooner or later, they will come a cropper. as HMRC are taking more of an interest in areas where previously they looked the other way. Even an accounting ignoramus such as myself can see that the Buxtons of this world are hardly raking it in and when you consider the effort that the Jaynes of the speedway world put in on top of all their other occupations and responsibilities, you do really wonder why they keep doing it year after year. But, at the risk of repeating myself, I truly appreciate the effort that the small promoter puts in and I do value their continued passion for the sport despite all the challenges. So I disagree with Jayne in one respect and I think it is important that the speedway supporter has at least some understanding of the financial position of the club that they follow and to which they hand over their money each week. Perhaps with this knowledge, the supporters will clearly see which clubs are being run by passionate, speedway-loving promoters and which are being run by accountants and make their spending choices accordingly. Just my opinion, obviously. Edited October 21, 2016 by Little Thumper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 Perhaps with this knowledge, the supporters will clearly see which clubs are being run by passionate, speedway-loving promoters and which are being run by accountants and make their spending choices accordingly. I simply don't understand the need for secrecy. It doesn't take a genius to work out that most speedway promotions/tracks live hand-to-mouth and in many cases have to be propped up with owner subsidies, and if this were clearer, there might be better understanding of the precarious existence of the sport when some call for the return of the 'top boys' etc.. In the days before the threshold for full accounts was raised, it was possible to get a better idea of speedway finances, and even then there weren't fortunes to be made. You could occasionally see some creative accounting (e.g. the owner's light aircraft listed as 'plant'), but it was all small beer really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Thumper Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 I simply don't understand the need for secrecy. It doesn't take a genius to work out that most speedway promotions/tracks live hand-to-mouth and in many cases have to be propped up with owner subsidies, and if this were clearer, there might be better understanding of the precarious existence of the sport when some call for the return of the 'top boys' etc.. In the days before the threshold for full accounts was raised, it was possible to get a better idea of speedway finances, and even then there weren't fortunes to be made. You could occasionally see some creative accounting (e.g. the owner's light aircraft listed as 'plant'), but it was all small beer really. Yes, that is very well put Humphrey!. Secrecy breeds suspicion and in most cases there is nothing of great interest to be seen anyway. Your mention of the owner's light aircraft has just reminded me of the days that I used to be a servant of Oulton Park. It would be the early 80s when half way through the morning's practice sessions, the radio message would come in that John Webb, the owner of Brands and Oulton was about to arrive. If necessary the session was curtailed early, cars cleared off the circuit and Mr Webb's pilot would land the little plane with the chequered tail fin on the bottom straight! After a couple of hours counting the takings, the process would be reversed and Mr Webb would wing his way back to his grand residence in the south of England. John Webb famously is once alleged to have stated that, "marshals are spectators who haven't paid to get in". Not surprisingly, I don't remember John getting many cheery waves from the orange-clad souls on the ground as his metal bird took off and looped the circuit before retreating to his lair in the leafy suburbs. Be careful out there, 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmet Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 .Has anything really changed ?Back in the 1960s promoter(-cum-rider-cum manager) Trevor Redmond reckoned that as long as he could break even during the season, his share of the pay-out from the Wembley Final ticket sales at the end of the season was what he relied upon to keep himself solvent for 12 months.That was, of course, in the days before sponsorship, - but that Wembley bonus has long since gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woofers Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 £10000 is the cost of the promotional licence, as per Redcar's notes. Do all club's have to pay this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 £10000 is the cost of the promotional licence, as per Redcar's notes. Is that paid Annually or carried over yearly ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Is that paid Annually or carried over yearly ?. There's the promoter's bond which I think is carried over, but aren't there regular membership fees to pay the running costs of the BSPA etc..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Yeah, but 10k paid annually is a big chunk, especially for NL Teams, i cant imagine that they have to pay 10k surely not, which could be why they dont have a say at the AGM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Yeah, but 10k paid annually is a big chunk, especially for NL Teams, i cant imagine that they have to pay 10k surely not. It's not £10k. An EL or PL licence is £2,200 p.a. - That gives a track licence, 2 promoters licences, and up to 15 officials licences. An extra promoters licence is about £250 and any extra officials licences are about £50. A NL licence is just over £1,000 p.a. again covering the track, NL promoters, and officials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 (edited) It's not £10k. An EL or PL licence is £2,200 p.a. - That gives a track licence, 2 promoters licences, and up to 15 officials licences. An extra promoters licence is about £250 and any extra officials licences are about £50. A NL licence is just over £1,000 p.a. again covering the track, NL promoters, and officials. Those figures John are for licences to operate and run the meetings/club. The £10k mention used to be the bond figure for the PL teams, but I think it has doubled since I left as a promotor. The EL bond is greater and the NL lesser. Whatever the bond is, you can used a bank bond or a reasonable value of assets to cover the amount. If you default and/or quit, the assets are transferred to the BSPA, who will act for the rider and sell the riders on to the interested parties. In 1997 we bought Jesper Olsen from the BSPA having taken over the assets of maybe Wimbledon/Eastbourne. Edited October 31, 2016 by Tsunami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woofers Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 That makes things more clear. Annual licences would not appear on the Balance Sheet, they are a charge to each years Profit and Loss account. In the latest filed accounts, to 29.2.16, the £10,000 is described as "Goodwill" relating to the granting of a promotional licence. Not all clubs have this item on their Balance Sheet, I guess it depends on circumstances and arrangements, as I would have thought a paid £10,000 cash deposit could appear either as an asset or long term debtor, whereas a bond or guarantee would be a future liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woofers Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Would the answer to miadfa8's question be BSI? Would be interesting to know figures for Go speed too. Go-Speed filed for voluntary liquidation on 25th May 2010 with a deficiency of £171,608.67, and was finally dissolved / wound up on 13 May 2014. The Liquidators progress reports and the final meeting return make interesting reading. Go Speed International was incorporated on 17th December 2009, and would seem to trade at fairly low levels until 2014 when things picked up. The P&L reserve on the Balance Sheet was : 2010 £195 2011 £847 2012 £1,776 2013 £771 2014 £36,894 2015 £23,420 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycho3a Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Sheffield = https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02721528/filing-history 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 Sheffield = https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02721528/filing-historyThat's a scary looking balance sheet! Not sure how you comfortable you would feel being one of their creditors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFMDan Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 I don't know anything about GB Speedway . . . but, I do work for a local stock car track and am associated with a few Flat Track promoters here in America. I can tell you that, aside from land/facilities/tractors/etc., a couple of the major expenses are actually: Insurance Ambulance/Medical You have to pay quite a bit for both . . . and always hope and pray that you NEVER utilize that for which you've paid a pretty penny. HB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woofers Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 That's a scary looking balance sheet! Not sure how you comfortable you would feel being one of their creditors. Have a feeling that the increase in Creditors will be either a bank or directors loan, to cover the loss for the year - i.e. increase in creditors £41k, loss for the year £42k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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