Sherborne Green Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Speedway is in a bad state of affairs. I don't think there is any argument to that. It is a great sport that used to attract big crowds. Unfortunately not now. I am not looking at the reasons for this in thread but merely trying to gauge which teams are attracting reasonable crowds that could ensure the sport remains. I do understand costs are relative to the league they run in. I can see that Wolves and Poole attract reasonable crowds in EL. Also Somerset and Glasgow in PL. I will be interested in others thoughts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Thumper Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Speedway is in a bad state of affairs. I don't think there is any argument to that. It is a great sport that used to attract big crowds. Unfortunately not now. I am not looking at the reasons for this in thread but merely trying to gauge which teams are attracting reasonable crowds that could ensure the sport remains. I do understand costs are relative to the league they run in. I can see that Wolves and Poole attract reasonable crowds in EL. Also Somerset and Glasgow in PL. I will be interested in others thoughts. Well, Sherborne Green, my friend, that is a very valid question. Sadly, I am not too sure that you will receive many accurate answers! Whilst it relatively easy to look at crowd numbers and make a profit assessment based on what you see, of course you have no idea what costs the club may be incurring in items such as rent and payments to riders. I am sure all speedway promoters would shout up and say that the profits are minimal or non-existent but my question to them would be why do they keep promoting, do they regard it as charity work? And then of course, there are the difficulties that are encountered when an organization has a flair for creative accounting and companies hide behind other companies and the money flows become a little convoluted. I think this is one of the problems with speedway. Supporters see promoters arriving in flash motors and assume that they are minting it on the back of the riders and supporters. Perhaps they are, I know not. Like you, SG, I would be interested to know more about the financial goings on in the speedway world as it appears to be a mysterious world where money appears and disappears quicker than one of Paul Daniels' rabbits. So those in the know, spill the beans - it won't go beyond these four walls. Don't tell them your name, Pike. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) Speedway is in a bad state of affairs. I don't think there is any argument to that. It is a great sport that used to attract big crowds. Unfortunately not now. I am not looking at the reasons for this in thread but merely trying to gauge which teams are attracting reasonable crowds that could ensure the sport remains. I do understand costs are relative to the league they run in. I can see that Wolves and Poole attract reasonable crowds in EL. Also Somerset and Glasgow in PL. I will be interested in others thoughts. Remember, to be make a profit your outgoings need to be less than the money you've got coming in. So it's not necessarily the clubs with the biggest crowds that you should be looking at. And clubs who own their own track are certainly better off than those renting. Glasgow has openly spent nearly £2 million in the last couple of years, to transform the stadium. They certainly have not made a profit - not that the owners have said that they expect to see that money back. They just want decent crowds at Ashfield, and have been getting them. Fair play. I suspect many of the clubs who actually make a profit are actually operating at NL level, where certain outgoings, certainly rider wages, are smaller. I would be surprised if Cradley and Eastbourne, maybe Birmingham and Kent too, weren't making a profit. All the best Rob Edited October 17, 2016 by lucifer sam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 IOW just announced they are in profit this season!! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Thumper Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 IOW just announced they are in profit this season!! Great news! How much profit has been made? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Wolves regular crowd is no where near what it used to be 5-6 years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 In some cases whose money are they losing!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miadfa8 Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) Unfortunately you cannot tell who is making a profit or not as published limited company accounts can be submitted to Companies House in an abbreviated format that does not require a profit and loss account to be submitted. However the abbreviated accounts do contain a balance sheet that does contain relevant information. When reading a balance sheet the net worth which is Total asset minus Total liabilities is the indicator of the solvency of the company. If the net worth is a negative value then the company is technically insolvent. However it may still continue to trade under the behest of its creditors. I have looked through Companies House records and have found information on the following speedway clubs: Track, Date Set up, Accounts Date, Net Worth, Belle Vue Mar-12 Mar-15 (£38,631) Berwick Dec-08 Dec-15 (£151,266) Birmingham Mar-15 Dec-15 £37,166 BMR (Rye) Mar-14 Dec-15 £100 Coventry Nov-11 Nov-15 (£25,591) Eastbourne (old) Dec-37 Dec-15 £676,608 Eastbourne (new) Jan-15 Jan-16 No a/cs yet Edinburgh Jan-86 Dec-14 (£172,962) Glasgow Sep-12 Nov-15 (£152,016) Cradley Nov-12 Nov-15 (£23,063) Ipswich Mar-89 Feb-16 £1,510 IOW (old) Dec-97 Feb-15 (£105,595) IOW (new) Jun-16 Jun-17 No a/cs yet Kent Jan-13 Jan-15 £996 Kings Lynn (old) Mar-15 Mar-15 £78,896 Kings Lynn (new) Feb-16 Feb-17 No a/cs yet Leicester Aug-09 Oct-14 £565,000 Poole May-02 Feb-16 £101,625 Somerset Feb-11 Feb-15 (£44,821) Swindon Sep-13 Nov-15 (£23,227) Redcar Dec-05 Feb-16(£140,437) From the above showing so may clubs having a negative Net Worth you can see that in the main UK speedway is being financially propped up by the promoters personally, or by a company they are involved in outside of the sport. There is however one UK company that is doing rather well out of speedway and due to its size has to publish full accounts. Its Turnover for year ending December 2015 was £7,850,975, net profit before tax was £1,492,161 and the Net Worth was £5,652,682. Any guesses which company this is? Edited October 17, 2016 by miadfa8 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Havelock announced a few weeks back that Redcar made a profit in 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Sweetman Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Wolves regular crowd is no where near what it used to be 5-6 years ago You can probably say the same about most clubs tbh. But for me the biggest winner of our successful season is undoubtedly Dave Parry.Without his funds propping the club up,hate to think where we would be now. I know lots of sponsors that would have given up long ago,given our dismal performances of the last few seasons. But he stuck by us,and our title triumph is a just and worthly reward for his outstanding loyalty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMungo Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Unfortunately you cannot tell who is making a profit or not as published limited company accounts can be submitted to Companies House in an abbreviated format that does not require a profit and loss account to be submitted. However the abbreviated accounts do contain a balance sheet that does contain relevant information. When reading a balance sheet the net worth which is Total asset minus Total liabilities is the indicator of the solvency of the company. If the net worth is a negative value then the company is technically insolvent. However it may still continue to trade under the behest of its creditors. I have looked through Companies House records and have found information on the following speedway clubs: Date Company Accounts Net Setup Date Worth £ Belle Vue Mar-12 Mar-15 (£38,631) Berwick Dec-08 Dec-15 (£151,266) Birmingham Mar-15 Dec-15 £37,166 BMR (Rye) Mar-14 Dec-15 £100 Coventry Nov-11 Nov-15 (£25,591) Eastbourne (old) Dec-37 Dec-15 £676,608 Eastbourne (new) Jan-15 Jan-16 No a/cs yet Edinburgh Jan-86 Dec-14 (£172,962) Glasgow Sep-12 Nov-15 (£152,016) Cradley Nov-12 Nov-15 (£23,063) Ipswich Mar-89 Feb-16 £1,510 IOW (old) Dec-97 Feb-15 (£105,595) IOW (new) Jun-16 Jun-17 No a/cs yet Kent Jan-13 Jan-15 £996 Kings Lynn (old) Mar-15 Mar-15 £78,896 Kings Lynn (new) Feb-16 Feb-17 No a/cs yet Leicester Aug-09 Oct-14 £565,000 Poole May-02 Feb-16 £101,625 Somerset Feb-11 Feb-15 (£44,821) Swindon Sep-13 Nov-15 (£23,227) Redcar Dec-05 Feb-16(£140,437) My last post does not read easily, but you can see that in the main UK speedway is being financially propped up by the promoters personally, or by a company they are involved in outside of the sport. There is however one UK company that is doing rather well out of speedway and due to its size has to publish full accounts. Its Turnover for year ending December 2015 was £7,850,975, net profit before tax was £1,492,161 and the Net Worth was £5,652,682. Any guesses which company this is? https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03369723/filing-history/MzE1OTU5MjQyNmFkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Thumper Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Unfortunately you cannot tell who is making a profit or not as published limited company accounts can be submitted to Companies House in an abbreviated format that does not require a profit and loss account to be submitted. However the abbreviated accounts do contain a balance sheet that does contain relevant information. When reading a balance sheet the net worth which is Total asset minus Total liabilities is the indicator of the solvency of the company. If the net worth is a negative value then the company is technically insolvent. However it may still continue to trade under the behest of its creditors. I have looked through Companies House records and have found information on the following speedway clubs: Track, Date Set up, Accounts Date, Net Worth, Belle Vue Mar-12 Mar-15 (£38,631) Berwick Dec-08 Dec-15 (£151,266) Birmingham Mar-15 Dec-15 £37,166 BMR (Rye) Mar-14 Dec-15 £100 Coventry Nov-11 Nov-15 (£25,591) Eastbourne (old) Dec-37 Dec-15 £676,608 Eastbourne (new) Jan-15 Jan-16 No a/cs yet Edinburgh Jan-86 Dec-14 (£172,962) Glasgow Sep-12 Nov-15 (£152,016) Cradley Nov-12 Nov-15 (£23,063) Ipswich Mar-89 Feb-16 £1,510 IOW (old) Dec-97 Feb-15 (£105,595) IOW (new) Jun-16 Jun-17 No a/cs yet Kent Jan-13 Jan-15 £996 Kings Lynn (old) Mar-15 Mar-15 £78,896 Kings Lynn (new) Feb-16 Feb-17 No a/cs yet Leicester Aug-09 Oct-14 £565,000 Poole May-02 Feb-16 £101,625 Somerset Feb-11 Feb-15 (£44,821) Swindon Sep-13 Nov-15 (£23,227) Redcar Dec-05 Feb-16(£140,437) From the above showing so may clubs having a negative Net Worth you can see that in the main UK speedway is being financially propped up by the promoters personally, or by a company they are involved in outside of the sport. There is however one UK company that is doing rather well out of speedway and due to its size has to publish full accounts. Its Turnover for year ending December 2015 was £7,850,975, net profit before tax was £1,492,161 and the Net Worth was £5,652,682. Any guesses which company this is? Thanks for getting this information. It is pretty depressing really. So the majority of promotions are running on empty yet at the top of the sport, money is sloshing about. Why the majority of promoters bother carrying on is a mystery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) Would the answer to miadfa8's question be BSI? Would be interesting to know figures for Go speed too. Edited October 17, 2016 by arnieg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) So the majority of promotions are running on empty yet at the top of the sport, money is sloshing about. It's not really big money though, and BSI's revenue has also declined significantly over the past four years when it was around 10 million. It's still better than making a loss, but indicates why GPs are being held at Teterow rather than Parken nowadays. Unfortunately shows that the sport just isn't very marketable, even with all the supposed resources of IMG. Edited October 17, 2016 by Humphrey Appleby 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMungo Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Would the answer to miadfa8's question be BSI? Would be interesting to know figures for Go speed too. The available figures are all there on Companies House site - if the accounts have been filed! Not all clubs appear to remember to do that.... (Go Speed) https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07107559/filing-history Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miadfa8 Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Would the answer to miadfa8's question be BSI? Would be interesting to know figures for Go speed too. Interesting that you mention this. If you look at my avatar you will see that the captain of the cycle speedway team (Hackney Cheetahs) is connected with Go speed. For my sins I am kneeling at the front, left hand side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Thumper Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 The available figures are all there on Companies House site - if the accounts have been filed! Not all clubs appear to remember to do that.... (Go Speed) https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07107559/filing-history So what about the clubs that don't appear in this helpful list? Is there no legal requirement for them to file accounts or are they operating on some kind of sole trader basis? I would be really interested to find out a bit more about the mysterious world of speedway finance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Net worth doesn't necessarily equate to solvency. A company with net assets higher than net liabilities doesn't neccesarily indicate it is not being propped up by a shareholder. Good of the poster to post those network figures, but tbh they are basically meaningless without the details behind them and a p&l. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMungo Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 So what about the clubs that don't appear in this helpful list? Is there no legal requirement for them to file accounts or are they operating on some kind of sole trader basis? I would be really interested to find out a bit more about the mysterious world of speedway finance. All clubs will have to file Accounts, but their trading name is not always obvious. Plymouth, for example, trade(d) as Peninsula Promotions Ltd, which isn't exaclty the first name you would expect. Others may form a similar pattern. The information is out there though, just may take a bit of time to find it in some cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Thumper Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 All clubs will have to file Accounts, but their trading name is not always obvious. Plymouth, for example, trade(d) as Peninsula Promotions Ltd, which isn't exaclty the first name you would expect. Others may form a similar pattern. The information is out there though, just may take a bit of time to find it in some cases. ........not just time but obviously people as resourceful as MrMungo and miadfa8 who could surely just have a little dig for us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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