Quest For Change, British Speedway A 21st Century Sport

[Broadsider]

Fair comment SS. Ok so lets look at the Pirates and their current Sky Elite League line up: Holder, Anderson, Kurtz, Buczkowski, Pedersen, Newman and Ellis. Using their "squad" this could possibly translate into the following more than capable Premier League outfit: Kurtz, Buzkowski (or Pedersen), Jack Holder, Newman, Ellis, 3 pointer & ANO. I therefore have to question what exactly is so unsupportable about that Premier side to cause dyed in the wool Pirates fans to simply abandon their club and precipitate financial disaster?

 

Clearly the Sky Elite League is already shored up by Premier League riders who constantly demonstrate themselves as being hardly inferior around a Speedway circuit. Remember the idea is to still retain the Sky Elite League but to operate a condensed fixture list and run alongside an expanded Premier League completion. In fact it's not to preclude Chris Holder or Hans Anderson or indeed both forming part of a Pirates Premier League septet, if they so wish, subject to complying with any agreed points limit.

 

In no way would I question supporters commitment but surely there's more to following Poole Speedway than Chris Holder & Hans Anderson?

[SteveLyric2]

Would you see a price differential between the 'Elite' fixtures and the 'PL' meetings?

[Vince]

If the Poole EL team was bottom of the table and the PL team top there would very likely be more support for the PL fixtures. That's not a dig at Poole as it would apply to most places.

 

However if it was a once a season opportunity to see Holder and Anderson against, say, Woffinden and Lindgren then perhaps that alone would keep the numbers up.

[Reliant Robin]

Poole fans currently pay to watch 85% premier league or even national league riders the league is only elite by name.

 

The reason a national league side didn't work is because yoy have the A team in the elite league, if you only had national league and it was a winning team people would turn up.

 

Appreciate people saying they can drive to glasgow and back in a day but how many of them actually do it, hardly any, regionalisation altho some clubs may still be some distance apart is the only way to boost attendances, reducing the product would bring tickets to around £10-£15maximum and people would pay to see it.

 

I would like someone who wants the elite league to work to give me 10 reasons why its elite?

Poole fans currently pay to watch 85% premier league or even national league riders the league is only elite by name.

 

The reason a national league side didn't work is because yoy have the A team in the elite league, if you only had national league and it was a winning team people would turn up.

 

Appreciate people saying they can drive to glasgow and back in a day but how many of them actually do it, hardly any, regionalisation altho some clubs may still be some distance apart is the only way to boost attendances, reducing the product would bring tickets to around £10-£15maximum and people would pay to see it.

 

I would like someone who wants the elite league to work to give me 10 reasons why its elite?

Could you offer up 10 reasons why the Premier League is Premier?

[Mike.Butler]

The British League Cup was abused by most of the top flight sides at that time. Instead of having teams minus their heat leaders (as was the intention, they fielded some heat leaders and came under the average limit by tracking a number of 3 pointers.

The effect of this was that many heats became processions led by the EL heat leader, followed by the PL boys and the 3.00 junior at the back.

 

The ides was that PL heat leaders vs EL 2nd strings would produce some close racing...as usual in speedway a great idea was flawed by EL clubs self-interest who fielded top heavy sides and made use of TS rules.

 

My point is that any 'B' grade fixtures MUST exclude the top boys. No circumvention.

Edited October 10, 2016 by Mike.Butler

[Trees]

Sick of PL fans that keep on and on about EL teams being full of PL riders. There are reasons why riders stay racing PL, of course they enjoy it but some of them would like to break through in Sweden and Poland where the big bucks are but simply can't so they need PL racing still. I read in the ELRC prog that Nick Morris and Bomber want PL racing next year because they need to race more. The amount of fixtures the EL offers is not enough but they can boost their earnings and time on the bike in the PL.

 

So many EL riders are plying their trade in the PL as it suits their career and earning potential, it's not because they are just "PL" standard ....

 

Years ago the PL was the training ground for riders to then make the step up to the EL, it still is to a certain extent but as I said above riders can't then make a living off EL fixtures alone so they stay PL.

 

EL bosses need to find a way of giving EL riders more fixtures so they don't need PL racing (PL fans and promoters won't like that, if their star riders were missing eh!), more NL boys can then get places in the PL which would help their development. Obviously some sort of job share\squad system could be put in place for the guys who have got rides in Sweden and Poland (if costs could be met? .... I guess there is good reason why this hasn't been done yet though).

 

Let's see what they come up with.

 

Buster says in the ELRC prog that the Gerhard engine has reduced costs dramatically for those who have used them this year, that sounds a good thing for speedway

 

Oh yeah and while I'm ranting, the pigging names Elite, Premier and National are just pigging names to differentiate between the piggin leagues, arghhhhhhhhhhh

Edited October 10, 2016 by Trees

[Reliant Robin]

Sick of PL fans that keep on and on about EL teams being full of PL riders. There are reasons why riders stay racing PL, of course they enjoy it but some of them would like to break through in Sweden and Poland where the big bucks are but simply can't so they need PL racing still. I read in the ELRC prog that Nick Morris and Bomber want PL racing next year because they need to race more. The amount of fixtures the EL offers is not enough but they can boost their earnings and time on the bike in the PL.

 

So many EL riders are plying their trade in the PL as it suits their career and earning potential, it's not because they are just "PL" standard ....

 

Years ago the PL was the training ground for riders to then make the step up to the EL, it still is to a certain extent but as I said above riders can't then make a living off EL fixtures alone so they stay PL.

 

EL bosses need to find a way of giving EL riders more fixtures so they don't need PL racing (PL fans and promoters won't like that, if their star riders were missing eh!), more NL boys can then get places in the PL which would help their development. Obviously some sort of job share\squad system could be put in place for the guys who have got rides in Sweden and Poland (if costs could be met? .... I guess there is good reason why this hasn't been done yet though).

 

Let's see what they come up with.

 

Buster says in the ELRC prog that the Gerhard engine has reduced costs dramatically for those who have used them this year, that sounds a good thing for speedway

 

Oh yeah and while I'm ranting, the pigging names Elite, Premier and National are just pigging names to differentiate between the piggin leagues, arghhhhhhhhhhh

It's also quite interesting running through team line-ups to see who these PL & NL riders are that are propping up EL sides.....a large percentage are owned by EL Clubs, so the argument could well work the other way around.

[Vince]

It's also quite interesting running through team line-ups to see who these PL & NL riders are that are propping up EL sides.....a large percentage are owned by EL Clubs, so the argument could well work the other way around.

 

The asset system is a nonsense that needs to disappear as soon as possible anyway in my opinion. They are owned by EL clubs in name only, youngsters whose head was turned by the opportunity to sign for a big name club which will do well if the rider does and not care if he doesn't.

[Reliant Robin]

 

The asset system is a nonsense that needs to disappear as soon as possible anyway in my opinion. They are owned by EL clubs in name only, youngsters whose head was turned by the opportunity to sign for a big name club which will do well if the rider does and not care if he doesn't.

Don't disagree with the first part...more the attitude of many believing the PL is the be all and end all and that it props up the EL. Both leagues have their pros and cons and both need each other, that is the reality.

[speedibee]

What I find most disturbing whenever suggestions are made to improve the domestic product ,is how many people are prepared to sacrifice the whole of speedway ,for a glimpse of a "Top rider " whenever said rider can fit us into his schedule , and when his service does not conflict with Poland ,Sweden , or the GP's . we have been pandering to Top Riders , Poland and the GP for too long now ,while our own leagues have suffered and been used by Gp riders as a "day job " at the end of the day ,with Harris's departure from the GP , Woffinden choosing to ride here ,only to top his earnings up when the cash cow of Poland dries up , How many riders are we actually bending over backwards to accommodate ? I estimate about 6 , and for the benefit of seeing them as and when , we have to accept the impact on clubs . supporters and other riders . Time to cut the GP riders loose , and the Journeymen foreigners who will not accept the U.K as their priority , then we can set about restoring our own leagues and clubs ,without trying to run leagues with one hand tied behind our backs .

[Sidney the robin]

What I find most disturbing whenever suggestions are made to improve the domestic product ,is how many people are prepared to sacrifice the whole of speedway ,for a glimpse of a "Top rider " whenever said rider can fit us into his schedule , and when his service does not conflict with Poland ,Sweden , or the GP's . we have been pandering to Top Riders , Poland and the GP for too long now ,while our own leagues have suffered and been used by Gp riders as a "day job " at the end of the day ,with Harris's departure from the GP , Woffinden choosing to ride here ,only to top his earnings up when the cash cow of Poland dries up , How many riders are we actually bending over backwards to accommodate ? I estimate about 6 , and for the benefit of seeing them as and when , we have to accept the impact on clubs . supporters and other riders . Time to cut the GP riders loose , and the Journeymen foreigners who will not accept the U.K as their priority , then we can set about restoring our own leagues and clubs ,without trying to run leagues with one hand tied behind our backs .

Totally agree, we need to go back to basics clubs running to a budget.The thing that amazes me is certain people know certain rules in place are wrong but turn a blind eye when there team get a advantage.We need to try and get the rules in place so that every team gets a fair crack of the whip.

[CookieIpswich]

What if there was a shared ticket scheme.

 

Basically regionalise the leagues with the top boys meeting in the play offs plus other competitons.

 

To boost attendances for example, say Ipswich are at Kings Lynn, a fixed number of tickets are allocated by Kings Lynn to Ipswich who then sell them to their supporters and they keep the revenue.

 

Away support could grow because first of all most league meetings will be more local and secondly away fans will know its boosting their clubs finances.

 

It could even lead to more clubs putting on coaches and doing a coach/ticket deal as long as the overall price does not fall below that on the face value ticket.

 

If a club took 50 fans to say 15 away meetings at £10 per go thats £7500 additional revenue for the club

[ch958]

I think that the only way forward is amalgamation at PL standard. Clearly some EL clubs will retain some pretty hot talent (prob not GP riders) but people such as Harris and Nicholls who would obviously score well in an amalgamated league but would be in teams governed by whatever average limit would work.

Tracks should put the horse before the cart and budget before the season on realistic crowd figures, not hoping they will increase by some unfathomable reasoning. To be honest the clubs have to be stronger and stick to agreed budgets for the good of the sport as a whole.

Of course it goes without saying that some teams will want to win at all costs – if every team had that attitude someone would still have to come bottom so whats the point?

Yes some supporters would not attend due to big names not being there but others will come back with a more varied and interesting fixture list.

allied to the above would have to be a concerted effort to maintain good tracks for good racing governed by more robust inspections and at least some local advertising.

I’ve posted this before but a good marketing tool is to give away free tickets in return for email addresses and mobile numbers which could then be used to inform of forthcoming fixtures, team news, etc. Maybe a half price entry after six full price tickets like McD’s do with coffee.

Of course the cost of being a rider has to come down but I’ll leave that to Deano or somebody to say how that could be done. There MUST be a way. Any businessman will tell you – controlling costs comes before anything – you can’t keep increasing prices to pay for increased racing costs.

[orion]

I think that the only way forward is amalgamation at PL standard. Clearly some EL clubs will retain some pretty hot talent (prob not GP riders) but people such as Harris and Nicholls who would obviously score well in an amalgamated league but would be in teams governed by whatever average limit would work.

Tracks should put the horse before the cart and budget before the season on realistic crowd figures, not hoping they will increase by some unfathomable reasoning. To be honest the clubs have to be stronger and stick to agreed budgets for the good of the sport as a whole.

Of course it goes without saying that some teams will want to win at all costs – if every team had that attitude someone would still have to come bottom so whats the point?

Yes some supporters would not attend due to big names not being there but others will come back with a more varied and interesting fixture list.

allied to the above would have to be a concerted effort to maintain good tracks for good racing governed by more robust inspections and at least some local advertising.

I’ve posted this before but a good marketing tool is to give away free tickets in return for email addresses and mobile numbers which could then be used to inform of forthcoming fixtures, team news, etc. Maybe a half price entry after six full price tickets like McD’s do with coffee.

Of course the cost of being a rider has to come down but I’ll leave that to Deano or somebody to say how that could be done. There MUST be a way. Any businessman will tell you – controlling costs comes before anything – you can’t keep increasing prices to pay for increased racing costs.

No it's not ..how can the way forward to be like a league that is doing poorly ? we been here before the Pl is not doing any better than the El and clubs are still losing money and going bust like Plymouth ...if fans wanted a varied fixture list the sames riders etc etc the pl would doing well but the fact is that it's not so fans quite clearly don't think that's it's that important .

[CookieIpswich]

6 rider teams 13 heats would equal less points money being paid out, two reserves on lower end money who are youngsters maybe a no.1 getting decent money like a harris, nicholls, king etc. And the rest of the team on decent PL money

 

Straight away cuts the costs, product sponsors for parts and oil etc to bring cost down for riders with standard or limited tuned engines also bringing the cost down to the riders

[ch958]

No it's not ..how can the way forward to be like a league that is doing poorly ? we been here before the Pl is not doing any better than the El and clubs are still losing money and going bust like Plymouth ...if fans wanted a varied fixture list the sames riders etc etc the pl would doing well but the fact is that it's not so fans quite clearly don't think that's it's that important .

 

how well is the El doing? We'll find out when they try and persuade a couple of teams to make the jump up.

[orion]

how well is the El doing? We'll find out when they try and persuade a couple of teams to make the jump up.

No one ever said the El was doing well or all speedway should be ran at that level did they ? unlike you who reckons that the way forward is to run to a level that has failed ...yet again for so unknown reason another who thinks that the Pl is some great success when speedway in general in the uk is going down the pan .

[Sidney the robin]

how well is the El doing? We'll find out when they try and persuade a couple of teams to make the jump up.

The PL has its problems but for me that league will survive Redcar who have an average team but are run tightly apparently made a profit this year.As for the EL WHEN sky pull out alot of the teams are going down the swanny.As for this pie in the sky notion of squads and Gp riders coming back dream on.