The Collapse Of The Pound And The Effect On The El

[Nobblytriers]

Anything with the Daily mail tends to be untrue ..thou the saps still take it in.. not read the link myself but by the looks of the post by arnieg it looks like he already found a lie about it already ...not really a shock

I'll admit that I did wonder about just putting a link to the article without the full address in it as I know the DM has a bit of a reputation for poor journalism, but then ... you see, the man who wrote the article is a very well respected journalist and not really associated to the DM itself other that his Sunday column. I certainly don't tar him with the same brush that you appear to do, and you didn't even read it! Unfortunately for you, you seem to have preconceived ideas and have made your mind up already. There is non so blind as those who will not see ...

 

As for 'Anything with the Daily mail tends to be untrue', well, where do we get our information? No matter what you read, it will have the authors 'slant' on it. Do you believe all that is written in whatever paper you read?

I read recently that someone said that the best advice they ever had from their father was to read a different paper every day and to get a balanced view point. Good advice I think.

[E I Addio]

Anything with the Daily mail tends to be untrue ..thou the saps still take it in.. not read the link myself but by the looks of the post by arnieg it looks like he already found a lie about it already ...not really a shock

No, if you read it instead of dismissing it out of hand you will see armieg has not found a lie in the article.

 

It may be the Daily Mail, but Peter Hitchens is a leading journalist who is better informed than most, and who doesn't only write for the Mail . Like all of them he tries to be a bit controversial to sell papers, but that doesn't mean there is never food for thought in what he says.

 

The wider point being made is that we have a very serious economic situation and for years successive governments, Labour, Coalition and Tory have been papering over the cracks, leaving it wide open to speculators.

 

I doubt Peter Hitchens is 100% right when he says the state of the pound is nothing to do with Brexit but I doubt he is 100% wrong either. A lot pretty good financial commentators have been saying similar things. Instead of just dismissing it out of hand and taking Steve Shovlars view that it its all due to the fishwives of Hartlepool or HA's view that it's all the fault of a stupid working class that are too dim to understand it, people ought to look more closely at what's going on with the banks, hedge funds, and speculators that first Gordon Brown and then George Osborne have been pandering to for years.

[Humphrey Appleby]

Instead of just dismissing it out of hand and taking Steve Shovlars view that it its all due to the fishwives of Hartlepool or HA's view that it's all the fault of a stupid working class that are too dim to understand it, people ought to look more closely at what's going on with the banks, hedge funds, and speculators that first Gordon Brown and then George Osborne have been pandering to for years.

Maybe people also shouldn't listen to EI Addio's who make statements about things people didn't say.

[stevehone]

basically the whole of this situation is down to politicians getting things wrong and not understanding what 'normal' people want.

 

and if you think we're screwed, wait until USA have their election - the world will be screwed

[orion]

No, if you read it instead of dismissing it out of hand you will see armieg has not found a lie in the article.

 

It may be the Daily Mail, but Peter Hitchens is a leading journalist who is better informed than most, and who doesn't only write for the Mail . Like all of them he tries to be a bit controversial to sell papers, but that doesn't mean there is never food for thought in what he says.

 

The wider point being made is that we have a very serious economic situation and for years successive governments, Labour, Coalition and Tory have been papering over the cracks, leaving it wide open to speculators.

 

I doubt Peter Hitchens is 100% right when he says the state of the pound is nothing to do with Brexit but I doubt he is 100% wrong either. A lot pretty good financial commentators have been saying similar things. Instead of just dismissing it out of hand and taking Steve Shovlars view that it its all due to the fishwives of Hartlepool or HA's view that it's all the fault of a stupid working class that are too dim to understand it, people ought to look more closely at what's going on with the banks, hedge funds, and speculators that first Gordon Brown and then George Osborne have been pandering to for years.

You said that Osbourne had pumped 400 million in and ask me if was a lie ...as armieg pointed out it's is .What stories etc do you think that the Daily Mail etc are going to run ? a balance view or a view that agrees with there readers...so it really does matter if Peter Hitchens is a great journalist as the moment his work is allowed to be the Mail we know what the side of the fence is going to fall on .so in most people eyes it's worthless .

I'll admit that I did wonder about just putting a link to the article without the full address in it as I know the DM has a bit of a reputation for poor journalism, but then ... you see, the man who wrote the article is a very well respected journalist and not really associated to the DM itself other that his Sunday column. I certainly don't tar him with the same brush that you appear to do, and you didn't even read it! Unfortunately for you, you seem to have preconceived ideas and have made your mind up already. There is non so blind as those who will not see ...

 

 

So if he said the Eu was great each week in his column you reckon they would allowed that and he would keep that column ..I don't think so ..your right there is none so blind as those who will not see

[E I Addio]

You said that Osbourne had pumped 400 million in and ask me if was a lie ...as armieg pointed out it's is .What stories etc do you think that the Daily Mail etc are going to run ? a balance view or a view that agrees with there readers...so it really does matter if Peter Hitchens is a great journalist as the moment his work is allowed to be the Mail we know what the side of the fence is going to fall on .so in most people eyes it's worthless .

So if he said the Eu was great each week in his column you reckon they would allowed that and he would keep that column ..I don't think so ..your right there is none so blind as those who will not see

1. My first question was whether you agree that the country has massive state and personal debt, and a disastrous balance of payments situation. I am interested to find out why you think that is a lie. I don't think I have heard anyone say otherwise so maybe you have some information that the rest of us don't have.

 

2. The Bank of England makes the technical decisions about QE and physically gives the instructions but it's Osborne, and Brown before him that had overall responsibility for the economy and are deemed to approve the BoE's actions.

However it is Peter Hitchens article in the Mail that we are scrutinising and if you read it he says that the BoE pumped the £435 billion into the economy. So let's re-phrase the question : is Hitchens lying about the QE pumped into the economy or are you saying it didn't happen.

 

3. Peter Hitchens is a right wing journalist who writes from a right wing perspective. That doesn't make him a liar. I doubt if he sat there and made the whole thing up.

In my post I didn't say the whole thing was gospel, but I simply said it was food for thought. You seem to be saying that the mere fact it is in the Daily Mail makes it untrue, and I am not sure why anyone who has actually read the article would say that.

[Humphrey Appleby]

1. My first question was whether you agree that the country has massive state and personal debt, and a disastrous balance of payments situation. I am interested to find out why you think that is a lie. I don't think I have heard anyone say otherwise so maybe you have some information that the rest of us don't have.

As the anti-EU media never ceases of reminding everyone, many of the major economies in the EU also have higher levels of state debt.

 

However it is Peter Hitchens article in the Mail that we are scrutinising and if you read it he says that the BoE pumped the £435 billion into the economy. So let's re-phrase the question : is Hitchens lying about the QE pumped into the economy or are you saying it didn't happen.

Again as the anti-EU media never ceases of reminding everyone, the ECB also authorised 600 billion of quantitative easing in the past couple of years, and the US Federal Reserve created an extra 3 trillion dollars.

 

Yet pound has fallen to its lowest levels against euro in five years, and the lowest against the dollar for possibly 30 years. And strangely this all happened straight after the Brexit vote, and worsened further as news of a 'hard Brexit' was reported.

 

Is Peter Hitchens an economist or does he have any experience in financial sectors? If not, then his opinion has no more validity than anyone else's, and he's also clearly writing for a particular audience.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Humphrey Appleby

[E I Addio]

As the anti-EU media never ceases of reminding everyone, many of the major economies in the EU also have higher levels of state debt. Again as the anti-EU media never ceases of reminding everyone, the ECB also authorised 600 billion of quantitative easing in the past couple of years, and the US Federal Reserve created an extra 3 trillion dollars.Yet pound has fallen to its lowest levels against euro in five years, and the lowest against the dollar for possibly 30 years. And strangely this all happened straight after the Brexit vote, and worsened further as news of a 'hard Brexit' was reported.Is Peter Hitchens an economist or does he have any experience in financial sectors? If not, then his opinion has no more validity than anyone else's, and he's also clearly writing for a particular audience.

I repeat yet again, for the blinkered. I didn't say Hitchens was right or wrong. I said it was food for though. Some of us like to take in a wider viewpoint than others.

 

I agree it's strange, that all this happens after the Brexit vote , and that substantially weakens the credibilty of the article which is why I said I didn't think he was either 100% right or 100% wrong. I daresay the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

 

As I said. I have heard other economic commentators, make similar comments on the lines that the banks etc are a big part of the underlying problem, notably Davd Buick of Panmuir Gordon,who doesn't withe in newspapers for a particular audience, Mybe you feel those points of view are nor worth considering and banks and hedgfund, managers have been a shining example of good financial conduct in the last 15 years and have absolutely nothing to do with the overall serious financial crisis. Many would disagree..

Edited October 17, 2016 by E I Addio

[E I Addio]

.Is Peter Hitchens an economist or does he have any experience in financial sectors? If not, then his opinion has no more validity than anyone else's, and he's also clearly writing for a particular audience.

Peter Hitchens is not an economist but he was awarded the Orwell Prize in 2010, which is the most prestigious award in this country for political journalism.

 

You and Orion may dismiss him if you wish, in case claiming that his opinion has no more validity than anyone else's or in orions case that he sits down and writes a pack of lies I the Daily/Sunday Mail but I would imagine that most reasonable people whe like to look at both sides of the issue would consider that to win such an award and to be generally regarded as an outstanding foreign correspondent does suggest that he has access to better research and better contacts than most of us and should at least be considered even if one does not totally accept everything he says. I very much doubt that the Orwell Prize is awarded to people who sit down and make up a pack of lies.

[orion]

Peter Hitchens is not an economist but he was awarded the Orwell Prize in 2010, which is the most prestigious award in this country for political journalism.

 

You and Orion may dismiss him if you wish, in case claiming that his opinion has no more validity than anyone else's or in orions case that he sits down and writes a pack of lies I the Daily/Sunday Mail but I would imagine that most reasonable people whe like to look at both sides of the issue would consider that to win such an award and to be generally regarded as an outstanding foreign correspondent does suggest that he has access to better research and better contacts than most of us and should at least be considered even if one does not totally accept everything he says. I very much doubt that the Orwell Prize is awarded to people who sit down and make up a pack of lies.

We dismiss him as anyone who work and writes is paid by the Daily Mail they have a certain view ...if was writing pro Euro stuff he would have no Job at the Daily Mail hence why it's easy to dismiss what he writes . He paid money to be a puppet .

 

When someone had such a bias as he has and he has to only to put a certain view point across he view becomes worthless . Do you reckon if researched something that made the Eu look good etc he would he write it or be allowed to write it . not in a million years .

[E I Addio]

We dismiss him as anyone who work and writes is paid by the Daily Mail they have a certain view ...if was writing pro Euro stuff he would have no Job at the Daily Mail hence why it's easy to dismiss what he writes . He paid money to be a puppet .

 

When someone had such a bias as he has and he has to only to put a certain view point across he view becomes worthless . Do you reckon if researched something that made the Eu look good etc he would he write it or be allowed to write it . not in a million years .

But you still haven't told us what he said that you think is untrue. Presumably you think the economy and balance of payments was in great shape before the Brexit vote and you think he is making it up when he says the Bank of England pumped over £400 billion QE into the economy. Edited October 18, 2016 by E I Addio

[TonyE]

Quantative Easing -a sure way to devalue your currency.

[SteveLyric2]

 

 

and if you think we're screwed, wait until USA have their election - the world will be screwed

 

Yeah but think how much stronger the £ will be against the US$!!!

[orion]

But you still haven't told us what he said that you think is untrue. Presumably you think the economy and balance of payments was in great shape before the Brexit vote and you think he is making it up when he says the Bank of England pumped over £400 billion QE into the economy.

As I said before I don't read things that are put in The Daily Mail for good reason. if you choose to do so that is your choice . Peter Hitchens is paid to get the likes of outraged and you fall for it every time .

[E I Addio]

As I said before I don't read things that are put in The Daily Mail for good reason. if you choose to do so that is your choice . Peter Hitchens is paid to get the likes of outraged and you fall for it every time .

He doesn't get me outraged at all. You still haven't said why you don't believe the country has massive state and personal debt and a massive balance of payments crisis or why you don't believe the Bank of England pumped £435 billion QE into the economy. Presumably you think Osborne did a cracking job and sorted the economy out.

Still, you are obviously not going to answer those points now, so time to move on.

[BluPanther]

He doesn't get me outraged at all. You still haven't said why you don't believe the country has massive state and personal debt and a massive balance of payments crisis or why you don't believe the Bank of England pumped £435 billion QE into the economy. Presumably you think Osborne did a cracking job and sorted the economy out.

Still, you are obviously not going to answer those points now, so time to move on.

Source: UK Government Data. Excludes public sector bank bailouts. In the financial year (April 2015 to March 2016) net borrowing was £76.5 billion.

[The Voice Of Reason]

 

still waiting for all that information you said you had.

http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/do-royals-make-us-richer.html?m=1

[houdi]

We dismiss him as anyone who work and writes is paid by the Daily Mail they have a certain view ...if was writing pro Euro stuff he would have no Job at the Daily Mail hence why it's easy to dismiss what he writes . He paid money to be a puppet .

 

When someone had such a bias as he has and he has to only to put a certain view point across he view becomes worthless . Do you reckon if researched something that made the Eu look good etc he would he write it or be allowed to write it . not in a million years .

Except he writes for the Mail on Sunday not the Daily Mail, and of course the Mail on Sunday was for Remain not leave. Plus of course Peter Hitchen in his youth was an extreme left winger, so he has examined politics from both sides.

Over the last few weeks the Remain side mantra has been yes we voted to leave the EU, but not the single market and customs union, and that people were not aware that leaving the EU also meant leaving the single market.

Yesterday on the Daily Politics Nick Clegg again repeated that assertion. Unbelievably the BBC (yes the BBC)and Io Coburn were able to run clips were Cameron and Osborne made it crystal clear if we voted leave, we would leave the single market. They also showed clips of Leadson,Boris and Gove all confirming that we would also be leaving the single market. The face of Clegg at the end of the clip was priceless, as he tried to bluster his way out of it

Late last night on This Week, Andrew Neil put it to Chucka Umumna that the only thing both sides agreed on pre referendum, was that voting to leave, would mean us leaving the single market, and he again he had to accept reluctantly that both sides had indeed made it clear we would leave the single market. As Portillo said the idea that the PM could come back from talks and say we still can't control our borders, we still are under the control of the ECJ, and we still can't strike independent trade deals is laughable.

The fact that over 3 months since the vote, people are still refusing to accept the outcome, just shows the utter arrogance of some people and their complete contempt for democracy.

[jeffster]

Except he writes for the Mail on Sunday not the Daily Mail, and of course the Mail on Sunday was for Remain not leave. Plus of course Peter Hitchen in his youth was an extreme left winger, so he has examined politics from both sides.

Over the last few weeks the Remain side mantra has been yes we voted to leave the EU, but not the single market and customs union, and that people were not aware that leaving the EU also meant leaving the single market.

Yesterday on the Daily Politics Nick Clegg again repeated that assertion. Unbelievably the BBC (yes the BBC)and Io Coburn were able to run clips were Cameron and Osborne made it crystal clear if we voted leave, we would leave the single market. They also showed clips of Leadson,Boris and Gove all confirming that we would also be leaving the single market. The face of Clegg at the end of the clip was priceless, as he tried to bluster his way out of it

Late last night on This Week, Andrew Neil put it to Chucka Umumna that the only thing both sides agreed on pre referendum, was that voting to leave, would mean us leaving the single market, and he again he had to accept reluctantly that both sides had indeed made it clear we would leave the single market. As Portillo said the idea that the PM could come back from talks and say we still can't control our borders, we still are under the control of the ECJ, and we still can't strike independent trade deals is laughable.

The fact that over 3 months since the vote, people are still refusing to accept the outcome, just shows the utter arrogance of some people and their complete contempt for democracy.

 

Oh yes, a great piece of democracy that will set this country back decades !

 

In case you haven’t noticed we have a massive trade deficit and a whopping great national debt !

 

There's no sign of the government coming up with a plan to get Britain's virtually non-existent manufacturing industry actually making stuff to export and no one wants to invest in the U.K. because we look like a very bad risk.

 

Oh and our very successful financial sector is about to lose its ability to trade easily across national borders.

 

Brilliant. What's left? Tourism. And that puts us on about the same category as Greece but without the weather.

 

Even David Davis has issued warnings re Brexit : http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-david-davis-agrees-that-businesses-face-cliff-edge-threat-if-no-eu-trade-deal-is-struck-by-a7371376.html

 

Brexit: David Davis agrees that businesses face ‘cliff edge’ threat if no EU trade deal is struck by 2019

The Secretary of State of Exiting the European Union acknowledged the danger if companies are forced to ‘fall back on World Trade Organisation rules’

Brexit Secretary David Davis has admitted businesses face a damaging “cliff edge” if the Government misses its two-year deadline for striking a fresh EU trade deal.

Quizzed in the Commons, Mr Davis agreed with a Labour MP who outlined the dangers if companies are forced to “fall back on WTO rules” in 2019.

Earlier this month, business leaders – including the CBI and manufacturers’ body the EEF – wrote an open letter to ministers, making a plea for barrier-free trade with Europe to be preserved.

It warned defaulting to trading by World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules would leave 90 per cent of UK goods trade with the EU subject to new tariffs.

During Brexit questions, Labour backbencher Emma Reynolds pointed out that other EU members had yet to agree to trade talks alongside the two-year Article 50 exit negotiations.That would mean 20 per cent in extra costs for the UK’s food and drink industry and 10 per cent for car producers, the letter said.

She said: “The truth is that business are concerned that we are going to have to fall back on WTO rules.

What, therefore, is the Government and the Secretary of State going to do to avoid the cliff edge in March 2019, when we leave the European Union, possibly falling out of the EU single market and falling back on WTO rules?”

In reply, a bullish Mr Davis insisted that some of the other 27 EU nations were coming around to the idea of “parallel negotiations”, from early next year.

But he added: “She’s quite right that we need to conclude this within the two years to avoid any cliff edge.”

It is the first time a Cabinet minister has acknowledged the “cliff edge” threat if Britain is unable to reach agreement on new trading arrangements before Brexit is concluded.

The most likely way out is for Britain to negotiate transitional arrangements, possibly on a sector-by-sector basis, starting with financial services.

However, such an outcome would anger arch-Brexiteers, because it would involve paying billions into the EU’s budget for many years to come and – possibly – some continued freedom of movement for EU citizens.

In the Commons today, Mr Davis signalled that transitional arrangements are under discussion to protect the City, telling MPs that “all possible options” are being explored.

The calls for transitional arrangements for the City were led by the former Conservative Northern Ireland Secretary Theresa Villiers – a prominent Leave campaigner.Several times, the Brexit Secretary refused to say whether payments to the EU would continue after 2019 – or whether Britain would also leave its customs union.

Stephen Metcalfe, another Tory Leave campaigner, urged Mr Davis to allow “an element of free movement”, to protect science.

Sir Keir Starmer, the Shadow Brexit secretary, demanded to know when the Government will publish its negotiating plans, but Mr Davis again refused to give a specific date.

Instead, he said: “Over the course of the coming period before the triggering of Article 50, much information will be put out about this and I think the House will be in no doubt what our aims and strategic objectives are.”

But, hey, all in brexiteers land is rosy....You keep on thinking that !

Edited October 21, 2016 by jeffster

[Humphrey Appleby]

Except he writes for the Mail on Sunday not the Daily Mail, and of course the Mail on Sunday was for Remain not leave. Plus of course Peter Hitchen in his youth was an extreme left winger, so he has examined politics from both sides.

Peter Hitchens is a socially conservative right winger, regardless of what he once was in his youth or who he writes for.

 

Over the last few weeks the Remain side mantra has been yes we voted to leave the EU, but not the single market and customs union, and that people were not aware that leaving the EU also meant leaving the single market.

The vote didn't specify the manner of exit, so arguing for different options is perfectly valid. The Brexiteers constantly bang on about the will of the people, but it's not the will of 16 million+ people. A solution needs to be found to satisfy as many people as possible.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Humphrey Appleby