Joe Beevers Posted October 7, 2016 Report Share Posted October 7, 2016 Erik Riss - Riding in both Wolverhamptons and Poole's individual events also had highly credible results in the World U21s and Premier League. Obviously being looked at by the above two clubs for next season. Dmitri Berge - Excellent in the World U21s and has vastly improved this season in the PL. Will he make the step up. Michael Palm Toft - Looks like he could be an important rider if moving up and could probably hold his own. Jack Holder - Appears to now be an asset for Poole but will he definitely be riding for them next season or perhaps go out on loan to gain experience elsewhere if Chris leaves the UK. My money is on them both to be at Poole. Who else may or may not make the jump into the Elite League from the PL or NL next season. Perhaps Robert Branford as the Bees EDR reserve? No idea but worth seeing opinions on bargain averages and who may go where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 Toft did very well at times for the Aces the other year often in the top five he will be taken.The two Aussies Lidsey/Gilmour maybe PL it could be a year to early for them but both prospects.Berge,Bellago,Hansen,Riss, Allan(EL) Thomsen, are a few who might be considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 Palm - Toft was in the main body of the team the whole season at Belle Vue. EDR's or whatever they were called then, couldn't move up but he did well and was very popular because of his never say die attitude. He is a better rider now than he was then and certainly rode exceptionally well at the NSS this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWC Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 The EL will need to weaken to attract more riders to move up full time. I doubt Lord Ford will allow that to happen unless they knock him out and put him in the broom cupboard when the voting takes place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 (edited) Surely Ford does not believe squad systems will be the way forward and fixed race night's.?Surely that is a pie in the sky dream in reality it never will happen.For me the teams need yo try and balance the books and if it means diluting the product so be it.This year i see a Swindon v Coventry NL challenge and that was one of the best meetings i have seen this year.So the level is not always that important as long as I am entertained i am happy GP riders back fulltime in Britain it will never happen. Edited October 8, 2016 by Sidney the robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray c Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 Surely Ford does not believe squad systems will be the way forward and fixed race night's.?Surely that is a pie in the sky dream in reality it never will happen.For me the teams need yo try and balance the books and if means diluting the product so be it.This year i see a Swindon v Coventry NL challenge and that was one of the best meetings i have seen this year.So the level is not always that important as long as I am entertained i am happy GP riders back fulltime in Britain it will never happen. I think it as always been pie in the sky situation can't see how it would or could work in this country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 Poole will have no opponenents if they don't get with the programme. Economics very different to most other geographical areas. The sport needs Poole but it also needs Plymouth and Workington 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 We talk long and hard about 'Squad Systems'; 'Specific Race Nights'; '6 men teams' ; 'EDR's' ; 'GP Riders'; 'League names'; 'Heat formats' the list is endless, but the number one priority has to be EQUALITY and FAIRNESS of all the teams. Unless that is uppermost in the plans the interest will continue to decrease. Every fan wants to go to a home meeting with the idea of winning. If the away team manage to win then, they did so by a super human effort and not as a case of expectancy. Of cause fans want to see their own team win, and by having a chance of winning means the racing will be exciting. Our biggest problem at the moment is CMA's given to the riders. The time when they meant something has long gone. The rider's average was suppose to identify the his standard. Now with EDR's, 2nd Strings and Heatleaders all on the same score, just illustrates the inefficiency of it all. To have this Equality and Fairness between the teams, the riders averages have to relate to their strength. If that can't be sorted, then all the other ideas are WORTHLESS....... We have to get back to basics...... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 Anders Thomsen if on his PL average would be a good bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCOGNITO Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Depends how or if the Elite League lines up next season but Jack Holder looks destined to ride at Poole and may join as his brother moves on and could be joined by Todd Kurtz to line up with brother Brady and Hans Andersen. If there is an Elite League next year, sadly it can't run without doubling up riders but the gap between the two leagues is getting closer and closer and if more big hitters are out of Britain next season, it would be an ideal time to rebuild in Britain to one big league and drop the big earners who want to ride elsewhere. The fast track riders in the Elite League this season have been very good additions and great strides have been made by Lewis Kerr, Adam Ellis, Max Clegg and Steve Worrall and like many of these, they can't be used again and hopefully the high averages they have obtained won't hamper them next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Anders Thomsen if on his PL average would be a good bet. Depends how or if the Elite League lines up next season but Jack Holder looks destined to ride at Poole and may join as his brother moves on and could be joined by Todd Kurtz to line up with brother Brady and Hans Andersen. If there is an Elite League next year, sadly it can't run without doubling up riders but the gap between the two leagues is getting closer and closer and if more big hitters are out of Britain next season, it would be an ideal time to rebuild in Britain to one big league and drop the big earners who want to ride elsewhere. The fast track riders in the Elite League this season have been very good additions and great strides have been made by Lewis Kerr, Adam Ellis, Max Clegg and Steve Worrall and like many of these, they can't be used again and hopefully the high averages they have obtained won't hamper them next season. Surely, these two posts highlights one of the main problems with our sport. It shouldn't be about 'getting a rider on a good average' ( A ringer), it should be that all riders having the correct average so every team has an equal chance of success. Time and again our promoters have rigged a replacement riders average to better the team with scant regard for rules, the sport, or the fans. We talk about the sport is not taken seriously by the public but can you blame them when we have deceptions happening every day..... We want a situation where all teams are equal, and each have a chance of winning. We want the best of these equal teams to win the league, not one who has brought in a ringer on a bent average. Unless we can get the emphasis of winning fairly, back to the forefront of the rules, these discrepancies will always be there. NB. I don't blame Wolves for bringing back Woffy on a ridiculous CMA. The blame lies firmly at BSPA doorstep. If a club wants to bring in a replacement rider then surely he has to come back on a respectable score. The form and points he scored 2 years ago is of little importance. Here we have the World Champion, the top rider in the world, coming in on a score equal to a EDR and 2nd string. Now surely that can't be right? From that moment on, the league becomes a farce. Had Woffy gone to any team they would also have had a massive advantage. It quite ironic that his inclusion won the title for Wolves, when some teams like BV played it by the book and lost. Like I say Wolves done what they were allowed to do, it was the rules that were wrong in allowing it to happen.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 (edited) Surely, these two posts highlights one of the main problems with our sport. It shouldn't be about 'getting a rider on a good average' ( A ringer), it should be that all riders having the correct average so every team has an equal chance of success. Time and again our promoters have rigged a replacement riders average to better the team with scant regard for rules, the sport, or the fans. We talk about the sport is not taken seriously by the public but can you blame them when we have deceptions happening every day..... We want a situation where all teams are equal, and each have a chance of winning. We want the best of these equal teams to win the league, not one who has brought in a ringer on a bent average. Unless we can get the emphasis of winning fairly, back to the forefront of the rules, these discrepancies will always be there. NB. I don't blame Wolves for bringing back Woffy on a ridiculous CMA. The blame lies firmly at BSPA doorstep. If a club wants to bring in a replacement rider then surely he has to come back on a respectable score. The form and points he scored 2 years ago is of little importance. Here we have the World Champion, the top rider in the world, coming in on a score equal to a EDR and 2nd string. Now surely that can't be right? From that moment on, the league becomes a farce. Had Woffy gone to any team they would also have had a massive advantage. It quite ironic that his inclusion won the title for Wolves, when some teams like BV played it by the book and lost. Like I say Wolves done what they were allowed to do, it was the rules that were wrong in allowing it to happen.... Of course fairness would be great for all. But name me a sport where no one or few teams don't dominate ?All this talk of 'ringers', 'rigging' and 'ridiculously low averages' - how on earth do you implement something like that fairly? ? Nearly impossible. If all riders should be given clearer and fair averages then what is the point of even having averages then? What is different about bringing the world champion into the side (at the start of the season) on his real average and then drop 2 points off it AS WORLD CHAMPION to bringing him back a year and a half later on that low average AS WORLD CHAMPION? ? If one is wrong then both are wrong. As for the Woffy situation. You aren't the first one to call out his 'ridiculously low average'. But how fair was it for Wolves who had to endure that ridiculously low level of performance for the WHOLE of 2014?? I notice nobody called foul play at the time or attempting to cheat for the future. So Wolves suffered a whole season yet it would be 'fair' to have to have his REAL average altered because it isn't fair to other teams??? Not fair at all. Wolves had to suffer 2 seasons because the world champion rode poor and achieved a poor average because of it. So its only fitting the team who suffered that year was able to take advantage of it. The travesty would have been Woffy racing for the Aces, Poole, Lakeside or Swindon and them getting an unjust advantage. If we are going to do things 'fairly' then any rider missing a season out of the EL must be re-assessed and preferably any rider of GP standard or Polish and Swedish top flight team places should have one agreed average that isn't altered to suit any one club. As far as PL riders moving up, do we need a new way of assessing their abilities and yet again why aren't their current PL averages the fairest way of assessing their convertion? Edited October 10, 2016 by stevebrum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 You could have a system where at the start of the season riders come in on their EL average from the previous season, although at the moment EL averages are all scewed so a formula has to be devised to make them realistic. If a rider is moving up from the PL then a conversion factor already exists but that can be reviewed season by season to make sure it is compatible with what has been achieved by those that have moved up. A rider who did not ride in the UK should come in on his average achieved in foreign leagues the previous season with a published conversion factor applied. Riders signed from abroad during the season come in on their current average in whatever league they are riding, again with the conversion factor applied. Riders from abroad who ride in more than one foreign league could come in on a converted average from the strongest league in which they are involved. That way we wouldn't be bringing in riders on out of date averages but figures which best reflect their current performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 This year showed why i was so disappointed the year Birmingham failed to win the league.They kept the same 7 all year (old school i know) but i so admired them for that.Be interesting to find out in the Ford years how many times he has won the league WITHOUT changes in the season.Have the original 1/7 in March won the league many times under his promotion.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray c Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Michael jepsen jensen talking of coming back to the UK next season good signing for some one if he sticks the season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 If we are going to do things 'fairly' then any rider missing a season out of the EL must be re-assessed and preferably any rider of GP standard or Polish and Swedish top flight team places should have one agreed average that isn't altered to suit any one club. As far as PL riders moving up, do we need a new way of assessing their abilities and yet again why aren't their current PL averages the fairest way of assessing their convertion? Exactly, When people put their heads together, its not difficult to organise rules 'Fairly'. Had this been done already, there wouldn't have been any complaints with Woffy or Lindback. The problem with the way you suggest, it that the promoters couldn't bend them to their advantage..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobydoo Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Michael jepsen jensen talking of coming back to the UK next season good signing for some one if he sticks the season Wonder if he was apart of the Frost assets to Poole deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans fan Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Michael jepsen jensen talking of coming back to the UK next season good signing for some one if he sticks the season it's a big IF , i wouldn't waste the steam of my pea on him 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sancho Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Just a thought on averages Why not base a rider on his average per race. Take the last 40-50 or even 100 rides in ANY league (can't be that difficult to find out) Yes some leagues are more difficult that others but most championships are only over 16 matches (Except here of course) maximum average then would be 3 points (Impossible to get I know) Set the team average at reasonable level (say 10 points) Seems to me then there would be less chance of getting riders on so called false average Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 k.k.h couldnt ride away tracks in the pl , (except Peterborough) any el team picking him for a double up rider needs to think again . cracking guy tho . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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