Tommy Sweetman Posted December 26, 2016 Report Share Posted December 26, 2016 Howarth has been written off(mainly Poole fans)by most posters on here,but you have to remember when he was riding on better equipment,he was averaging 8 in final six meetings and looked to have got over his mid season slump.Not saying he's the finished article,but Wolves supporters are happy with what we've got,and at the end of the day that's all that really matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fourentee Posted December 26, 2016 Report Share Posted December 26, 2016 No I mean't Skornicki having ridden for Poole but i did meet him as a fan in the bar after winning the final and he is a really nice guy and gave everything every race which as fans is all you can ask. Personally i have never ridden a speedway bike. Apologies, I was being a touch facetious there! Didn't expect you to take me at face value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted December 26, 2016 Report Share Posted December 26, 2016 It's hard to know what to make of Wolves, they have one of the best heat leader trios but one of the weakest reserve pairings! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted December 26, 2016 Report Share Posted December 26, 2016 Apologies, I was being a touch facetious there! Didn't expect you to take me at face value. well i kind of thought that may be the case but didn't want anyone thinking i could actually ride a speedway bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCOGNITO Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Having ridden for Poole i have a lot of time for Skornicki as a person and as a rider and he must know that he cant trundle round and expect to stay in the team so i am sure he will ride at least well enough to maintain his average. The problem for this team is Howarth and the reserves, Poole wrongly got some stick for sacking him once when he was out of form and i think some think there is more to come from him but not sure there is and doubt he will maintain his average. Very few riders will maintain their averages and if you judge them on their Elite League averages you will get a clearer picture of what to expect from riders so Adam Skornicki is 5.23 and Kyle Howarth 5.18 which is what they will be around. Adam maybe able to get closer to six but Howarth at around five is a realistic figure with more third places than anything. Trouble is, should either hit a rough patch, will Clegg average enough without protected reserve rides to give either a spell at reserve to boost confidence. Howarth has been written off(mainly Poole fans)by most posters on here,but you have to remember when he was riding on better equipment,he was averaging 8 in final six meetings and looked to have got over his mid season slump.Not saying he's the finished article,but Wolves supporters are happy with what we've got,and at the end of the day that's all that really matters. Howarth just about finished over five due to those scores at the end but remember three of those were at home to Kings Lynn, Swindon and Coventry who all struggled and were sent home with big defeats, so double figure scores in those three boosted his average. That said he is as strong as most number 2 riders in the Premiership and he can hold his own hopefully but don't expect scores of sevens and eights next season but more four and fives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 (edited) No, I am not a politician. Wolves have cocked up, be grateful. Skornicki was never a World Beater, and hasn't sat on a bike for two years. Ah I see you're thinking now. If your fifth best rider isn't a world beater it's a poor signing. Didn't realise the Premiership was so strong! Edited December 27, 2016 by BWitcher 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJWolves Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 A lot of the concern seems to be about the strength of Wolves second strings but apart from maybe Rye House I don't see a team with stronger riders in those positions. Add that to the strength of the Wolves heat leaders, and there is every reason to suspect Thorsell and Masters will continue to improve, then I think the Wolves team is quite strong relative to the rest of the league. We may prove to be weak at reserve, particularly away, but the revised heat formula makes that less of an issue than last season 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Sweetman Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 A lot of the concern seems to be about the strength of Wolves second strings but apart from maybe Rye House I don't see a team with stronger riders in those positions. Add that to the strength of the Wolves heat leaders, and there is every reason to suspect Thorsell and Masters will continue to improve, then I think the Wolves team is quite strong relative to the rest of the league. We may prove to be weak at reserve, particularly away, but the revised heat formula makes that less of an issue than last season Nice to know at least one other Wolves fan seems to think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfsbane Posted December 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Are we 'weak' at reserve? Of course we are. I keep hearing on here that with the race format change that reserves may not be as important as they were in 2016.If that proves not to be the case what we won't be able to handle in 2017, is any of the 1-5 having an off night as Max won't, in my opinion, be able to fill that requirement on the current available evidence. To depend on him 'taking a step forward' to be capable of replacing an underperforming 1-5 rider sounds a risky plan to me and will put unecessary pressure on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.V 72 Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Good reserves are still an important part of the team if you have a good one on form he can have 7 rides and win you a meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Are we 'weak' at reserve? Of course we are. I keep hearing on here that with the race format change that reserves may not be as important as they were in 2016.If that proves not to be the case what we won't be able to handle in 2017, is any of the 1-5 having an off night as Max won't, in my opinion, be able to fill that requirement on the current available evidence. To depend on him 'taking a step forward' to be capable of replacing an underperforming 1-5 rider sounds a risky plan to me and will put unecessary pressure on him. I don't know where this 'reserves are not as important' nonsense has come from but a scoring reserve is vital to a teams success.if a team has no decent reserve, he won't be used to replace a rider in the top five who is struggling. Meaning the team would be down to only 4 scoring riders and against a team with a scoring reserve will struggle. Good reserves are still an important part of the team if you have a good one on form he can have 7 rides and win you a meeting. Absolutely. A good scoring reserve adds pressure on riders in the 1-5 to score or be replaced in one of his rides. And as you say a scoring reserve will no doubt take one of the other reserve rides plus replace a top 5 rider. They are essential in bringing success. And part of the reason why I have been critical of the Wolverhampton team and don't rate them very highly. There is no one to replace Howarth or Skornicki if they are having an off night. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Sweetman Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Obviously CVS thinks differently,on the 19th Dec he stated "With the race format changes I think the reserves races are slightly less critical this season,and Max(Clegg)has shown he has the potential to become the leading reserve this year".Think that's a bit optimistic to expect Max to attain that sort of improvement,but perhaps goes some way to explaining why he didn't pursue Klindt more vigorously. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Good reserves taking lots of rides didnt help Poole last season!! Ellis and Newman were outstanding in the play off semi finals but the rest of the side somewhat choked. If Klindt bangs in 13 and Shanes 3 for example against Wolves reserves getting say 7, its irrelevent if the other members of the top 5 dont pull their weight. In 2 evenly matched sides reserves are important as the top 5 will get roughly the same, But i would expect Wolves heat leaders to comfortably outscore every other heat leader trio in the league (bar maybe Kings Lynn) by maybe 5 or 6 points a meeting. The Wolves second strings especially at home will outscore most second strings by 4-5 points as well. Thus as long as the Wolves reserves score less than 6 or 7 then their rivals they will still win meetings 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Good reserves are still an important part of the team if you have a good one on form he can have 7 rides and win you a meeting. Leicester have had good reserves for last 2 years and finished stone last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 I don't know where this 'reserves are not as important' nonsense has come from but a scoring reserve is vital to a teams success.if a team has no decent reserve, he won't be used to replace a rider in the top five who is struggling. Meaning the team would be down to only 4 scoring riders and against a team with a scoring reserve will struggle. Absolutely. A good scoring reserve adds pressure on riders in the 1-5 to score or be replaced in one of his rides. And as you say a scoring reserve will no doubt take one of the other reserve rides plus replace a top 5 rider. They are essential in bringing success. And part of the reason why I have been critical of the Wolverhampton team and don't rate them very highly. There is no one to replace Howarth or Skornicki if they are having an off night. Wrong. Elite league semi finals last season: Poole v Wolves.........Poole reserves score 17+3.....Wolves reserves score 7 Wolves v Poole.........Poole reserves score 23+3.....Wolves reserves score 11 Thats Poole reserves scoring 40+6 versus Wolves reserves getting 18.........a difference of 22 points..............Didnt get Poole any success as other areas of the team let them down 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Obviously CVS thinks differently,on the 19th Dec he stated "With the race format changes I think the reserves races are slightly less critical this season,and Max(Clegg)has shown he has the potential to become the leading reserve this year".Think that's a bit optimistic to expect Max to attain that sort of improvement,but perhaps goes some way to explaining why he didn't pursue Klindt more vigorously. CVS probably meant the leading reserve in the Wolverhampton team. Thing is without strong reserves you are stuffed if members of the top five aren't pulling their weight. A scoring reserve taking 7 rides can do untold damage. Is Clegg capable of taking 7 rides and covering for a rider in the Wolves 5 who is having an off night? IMO Wolves won't be challenging unless Clegg has a leap forward in ability. The other reserve is just making up the numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 (edited) CVS probably meant the leading reserve in the Wolverhampton team. Thing is without strong reserves you are stuffed if members of the top five aren't pulling their weight. A scoring reserve taking 7 rides can do untold damage. Is Clegg capable of taking 7 rides and covering for a rider in the Wolves 5 who is having an off night? IMO Wolves won't be challenging unless Clegg has a leap forward in ability. The other reserve is just making up the numbers. To easy to say that. Poole reserves were strong last season yet the top was ultimately a failure. Poole riders had off nights, the reserves stepped in and Poole still lost to Wolves. Most number 7 riders are making up the numbers , Shanes included. So if you look at Clegg v Klindt you would say will outscore him by say 5 or 6 points a meeting at best? Im pretty sure the rest of the Wolves strong top 5 can make up that deficit. At Wolves i would expect the Wolves top 5 to outscore the Poole top 5 by at least 9 points. Also i would think Clegg will be closer to Klindts score around Monmore. At Poole i would expect the Poole top 5 to outscore the Wolves top 5 by 5 or 6 but the reserves to also score more by about 5 or 6 Not much between the 2 sides for me Edited December 28, 2016 by Gavan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 And part of the reason why I have been critical of the Wolverhampton team and don't rate them very highly. There is no one to replace Howarth or Skornicki if they are having an off night. The other part of course is that you yearly rate wolves poor however your point mentioned is at least a constructive one. IMO Wolves won't be challenging unless Clegg has a leap forward in ability. The other reserve is just making up the numbers. It's your yearly prediction Steve, so we won't take it too personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Wrong. Elite league semi finals last season: Poole v Wolves.........Poole reserves score 17+3.....Wolves reserves score 7 Wolves v Poole.........Poole reserves score 23+3.....Wolves reserves score 11 Thats Poole reserves scoring 40+6 versus Wolves reserves getting 18.........a difference of 22 points..............Didnt get Poole any success as other areas of the team let them down Just because it didn't help Poole win last season doesn't mean reserves are not vital but they can't do it on their own! Wolves top 3 are strong but Newman massively outscored Howarth in the play offs and although his average is lower on a head to head he is stronger, Jack Holder is a terrific young improving rider against a rider who should maintain his average but i will be shocked if young Jack doesn't put at least a point on his average, so overall Poole's top 5 are at least as strong as Wolves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Just because it didn't help Poole win last season doesn't mean reserves are not vital but they can't do it on their own! Wolves top 3 are strong but Newman massively outscored Howarth in the play offs and although his average is lower on a head to head he is stronger, Jack Holder is a terrific young improving rider against a rider who should maintain his average but i will be shocked if young Jack doesn't put at least a point on his average, so overall Poole's top 5 are at least as strong as Wolves. He would do well to achieve that in the Championship, let alone the Premier. I hope he does. but won't be shocked if he doesn't.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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