Belle Vue 2017

[Gavan]

Is anyone really saying Cook is as good as KK?

That said of course they are comparable as both ride in the EL as heat leaders.

The problem with KK is that he all to often rides at 70% so anyone that gives 100% is their equal when you look over a season long average.

One on one KK is likely to win everytime but then, as you keep pointing out he is a former world number 2 so should be head and shoulders over a rider like Cook. However he isn't. Cook finished the year with a 7.37 whilst KK was 7.91. Head and shoulders above?? Above yes. Head and shoulders no. Just over half a point better isn't head and shoulders.

KK has had one season at world class level when he finished number 2 in the world. Very much a one off as has never looked close to that in any other year.

 

For me despite all the arguments and discussions about KK its what they both do at our top flight level that's the only thing that's it's important. And given their averages are just over half a point in separation in the most recent season we have had they are very much comparable.

KK SHOULD be head and shoulders above a lot of riders but he isn't.

KK is likely to be the higher averaged rider every season but you never know what you are going to get with him. At his spiritual home he should have a superb season.

That said given the choice I'd have Cook 100 times out of 100 over the 2.

Shovlar is probably enjoying this as that is his sole purpose on here to wind people up by posting stuff he knows isnt factual then sits back and watches everyone.

[WestGorton1884]

For someone to say Cook is as good as Kk is ridiculous. Like saying AFC Bournemouth are as good as Arsenal. Occassionally able to match them over one match but always behind. One having been 2nd in the world while the other can't even get a ride abroad.

 

Fricke is going places and will be BV's shining light. But now this is their second season there is no excuse with the track. A season riding on it brings lots of home advantage with setups and racing lines. They can't fall back on that old chestnut this time around.

 

Struggling to see where heat advantages are going to come from. Unless they sign a proper number one they won't reach the heights of last season.

 

Just my opinion of course

 

But Cooks 100% is probably KK's 70%. No comparison between the two riders. You should be comparing Cook to King and Batchelor.

KK is a good rider , probably better than Cook .

But to use Bournemouth / Arsenal as a comparison ........ Now that is ridiculous !!

 

In my opinion of course

[hyderd]

For someone to say Cook is as good as Kk is ridiculous. Like saying AFC Bournemouth are as good as Arsenal. Occassionally able to match them over one match but always behind. One having been 2nd in the world while the other can't even get a ride abroad.

 

Fricke is going places and will be BV's shining light. But now this is their second season there is no excuse with the track. A season riding on it brings lots of home advantage with setups and racing lines. They can't fall back on that old chestnut this time around.

 

Struggling to see where heat advantages are going to come from. Unless they sign a proper number one they won't reach the heights of last season.

 

Just my opinion of course

 

But Cooks 100% is probably KK's 70%. No comparison between the two riders. You should be comparing Cook to King and Batchelor.

 

You certainly know how to wind people up. put cookie against KK at the NSS, if Cookie outgates KK 3 times out of 3 he will beat him 3 times out of 3. At Poole it's the other way around. On a good neutral track, I would say KK would/should win 2 out of 3. But over a full season their averages will/are be about the same.

[WalterPlinge]

Looks like good news for you Belle Vue fans that Steve Shovlar is trolling your thread. He only trolls teams he's worried about. Doubt you'll see much of him on the Leicester thread.

 

You haven't named a single rider yet and you've already got him running scared.

[B.V 72]

For someone to say Cook is as good as Kk is ridiculous. Like saying AFC Bournemouth are as good as Arsenal. Occassionally able to match them over one match but always behind. One having been 2nd in the world while the other can't even get a ride abroad.

 

Fricke is going places and will be BV's shining light. But now this is their second season there is no excuse with the track. A season riding on it brings lots of home advantage with setups and racing lines. They can't fall back on that old chestnut this time around.

 

Struggling to see where heat advantages are going to come from. Unless they sign a proper number one they won't reach the heights of last season.

 

Just my opinion of course

 

But Cooks 100% is probably KK's 70%. No comparison between the two riders. You should be comparing Cook to King and Batchelor.

As you say Fricke is the shining light and is going places,plus we have the 4th highest Elite league averaged rider in the league Craig Cook + ? thank you for your concern re heat advantages but i think we will be just fine.

Just my opinion of course.

Edited February 10, 2017 by B.V 72

[stevebrum]

Looks like good news for you Belle Vue fans that Steve Shovlar is trolling your thread. He only trolls teams he's worried about. Doubt you'll see much of him on the Leicester thread.

 

You haven't named a single rider yet and you've already got him running scared.

5 posts made and you have already sussed that. Good going for a 'new' poster.

[IronScorpion]

 

So they should, at least to a degree.

 

Its never really been a case of the stadium being finished but who pays for the facilities to bring it up to scratch if it isn't. That's down to the landlord, not the tenant.

 

The council can use the 'several hundred thousand pounds' they withheld from the contractor to pay for it.

 

To then try & charge rent for the temporary facilities is scandalous. No wonder Gordon & Morton withheld their rent payments. How long would it have continued for? Just because it was their dream & it took several years to come to fruition(almost), they should not have to pay rent in 2016, 2017 & beyond, continually being mugged off. They should have insisted that the stadium be finished to the plans first set out, if not during the season, definately end of season.

 

I feel sorry for them in that they tried but obstacles were always put in their way. The non-payment of rent is obvious but riders wages puzzles me as they were taking money but where was it going? Paying interest on loans, the reputed £3000 fee to Zagar?

 

There has to be a balance sheet out there somewhere & it will be interesting reading, if found!

[Daniel Smith]

When I found out what the score was with the south stand I said they shouldn't have accepted the stadium, and if that meant not running last season so be it. The reply to that suggestion was (amongst lots of other reasons) the bspa were aware but insisted they ran as otherwise they would hand sky the excuse they were looking for (<8 teams) to back out of the TV contract!

 

Given how helpful the bspa have been to DG and Mort they must be regretting that particular aspect of the decision making process.

 

Just proves how bad DG & Mort were at running a Speedway business if the threat of the sky contract was what made them run.

Pay £1000's on temp facilities and rack up massive debts because of the BSPA & Sky heard it all now.

[ABS]

The composition of the council in M/Cr is Labour 95 and Lib Dems 1. So there is nobody really who is going to hold the council to account for this. Could you have imagined them having delivered the Commonwealth Games Stadium in an unfinished state? They wouldn't have been allowed to get away with it, for sure.

 

Personally, I hope Gordon and Morton sue the council and win their case. As for the BSPA's part in this sorry state of affairs, well I doubt that we will ever find out what did, or didn't, go on.

 

Wonder how many of these Councillors even know that speedway exists?

 

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/manchestercouncillors?cllr-party=2&cllr-type=party

[Halifaxtiger]

When I found out what the score was with the south stand I said they shouldn't have accepted the stadium, and if that meant not running last season so be it. The reply to that suggestion was (amongst lots of other reasons) the bspa were aware but insisted they ran as otherwise they would hand sky the excuse they were looking for (<8 teams) to back out of the TV contract!

 

Given how helpful the bspa have been to DG and Mort they must be regretting that particular aspect of the decision making process.

 

I have some sympathy with Morton & Gordon here. Its entirely possible that the BSPA did put the pressure on but I think they would have been very loath to shut the team down anyway, and lets be honest it might not have been for one season only (especially bearing in mind that the works on the stadium rather than the track still hasn't been completed).

 

I think that if there is additional rent to pay because of the need to meet the costs of temporary facilities I would accept that. But that would be a proportion of the costs - and a small one at that - only, a sort of good will gesture to engender a better relationship.

[ouch]

 

Just proves how bad DG & Mort were at running a Speedway business if the threat of the sky contract was what made them run.

Pay £1000's on temp facilities and rack up massive debts because of the BSPA & Sky heard it all now.

The agreement to sort the south side was done before the GOM & SWC problems. Without those, debt wouldn't have been an issue, south stand or not.

Things were agreed to just to get the show on the road and keep Sky on board but with the promise of negotiations taking place in November between DG and MCC to sort out responsibility for the various costs. That was scuppered by Buster and we now find ourselves still awaiting confirmed owners and team.

 

One thing you can blame Belle Vue for is endeavouring to do the best for the sport and the club when it would have been so much easier to just stop running or drop down a league when things get hot in the top tier.

 

Not our style though and thankfully we now have the NSS. Shame we don't have the SWC this year. Go figure.

[bellevueace]

The delays in negotiations is probably MCC having to deal with businessmen with real business acumen who certainly will make sure all bases are covered. Cant imagine this pair paying for a stadium that has not been completed to plan.

[waytogo28]

What does seem clear ( if anything is!) is that DG &CM did not have much of a contract for what they were taking over i.e. what must be completed within the stadium that was in writing. The new owners are unlikely to make the same mistake. From the facts so far known it is unlikely the DG&CM would win any court case even if they did decide that was their best way forward. It looks as if DG &CM paid none of their "within speedway" debts and that is why other promoters took away their licence. Fair enough if that is the case.

[sadiecat1999]

very long drawn out affair lets hope it works out all right in the end

[Shale Searcher]

The composition of the council in M/Cr is Labour 95 and Lib Dems 1. So there is nobody really who is going to hold the council to account for this. Could you have imagined them having delivered the Commonwealth Games Stadium in an unfinished state? They wouldn't have been allowed to get away with it, for sure.

 

Personally, I hope Gordon and Morton sue the council and win their case. As for the BSPA's part in this sorry state of affairs, well I doubt that we will ever find out what did, or didn't, go on.

 

Wonder how many of these Councillors even know that speedway exists?

 

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/manchestercouncillors?cllr-party=2&cllr-type=party

 

Richard Lease does, he represents CRUMPSALL!!

 

See what I did there....!

[waiheke1]

KK was 0.6 better than Cook last season, thats not much and out of the 2 maybe Cook will improve.

Fricke and Andersen averaged the same last season and Hans wasnt a heat leader for some of that. I would expect the improving Fricke to average more than Andersen who isnt going to get better

Granted nothing between Kurtz and Worrall.

So not much between Belle Vues heat leaders and Pooles in my opinion.

 

The troll said with those 3 heat leaders Belle Vue will struggle with Leicester.

 

Im merely pointing out that nothing between Belle Vues top 3 and Pooles , therefore if he thinks one will struggle then so would the other! Just tongue in cheek aimed at someone whose sole purpose is to wind others up

Andersen averaged over half a point more than fricke last season. And fricke rode more meetings as 2nd string than Hans.

Your using very selective facts to pursue your anti poole agenda

[WestGorton1884]

Andersen averaged over half a point more than fricke last season. And fricke rode more meetings as 2nd string than Hans.

Your using very selective facts to pursue your anti poole agenda

" Anti Poole agenda " ? ... Where ? , He's just stating his opinion isn't he ?

 

I'd actually prefer Max Fricke over an ageing Hans Andersen , doesn't mean i dont rate HA or dislike Poole Pirates .

[foreverblue]

 

You certainly know how to wind people up. put cookie against KK at the NSS, if Cookie outgates KK 3 times out of 3 he will beat him 3 times out of 3. At Poole it's the other way around. On a good neutral track, I would say KK would/should win 2 out of 3. But over a full season their averages will/are be about the same.

As Cook is everybodys choice over KK especially at the NSS why hasn't Cook beaten KK the last two meetings they have faced each other at the NSS?

[Panthers89]

Fricke 9.92

Schlein 7.17

Bridger 8.52

Stevie 8.47

Cook 9.83

Bewley 4.00

Jack Smith 2.00

--------------------------

49.91

 

Its about the best I can come up, with what's left. Solid top 5, and 2 young local reserves.

 

Just hope riders are announced before the 2 minute warning before the first heat......

[foreverblue]

Fricke 9.92

Schlein 7.17

Bridger 8.52

Stevie 8.47

Cook 9.83

Bewley 4.00

Jack Smith 2.00

--------------------------

49.91

 

Its about the best I can come up, with what's left. Solid top 5, and 2 young local reserves.

 

Just hope riders are announced before the 2 minute warning before the first heat......

Bridger! Very funny.