Belle Vue 2017

[Midland Red]

What's needed is a promotional team so passionate about the venture. . . .

 

THAT would be Philippe Rising and . . . erm . . . can't think of anyone else (capital letters carefully used for the first word)

[martinmauger]

similar to hull a few years back aswell they built a side the won the league resulting in the owners not being able to pay the bills and stop trading as such

the assetts reverted back to the bspa which were then offered to the highest bidder as a job lot

im sure the bids were in sealed envelopes and sheffield were the highest bidder ahead of tony mole who was at workington at the time

 

speedway is a funny old game

you have to put up a bond or use your assetts as that bond if things like this happen where bills arnt paid then the bspa can claim that bond or assetts to use to pay the bills

at least thats how it was explained to me from someone involved years ago

And at least one bidder did so with the intention to continue running speedway in Hull but was subsequently told by the landlords "to be perfectly honest, we've had enough of speedway, more trouble than it's worth". Despoite the offer of one seasons rent paid in advance (!). The only income available to speedway came from admissions (inc season tickets), proggies, advertising & sponsorship (of which we always had plenty), possibly car parking & rent of area for track shop. So it was very difficult for speedway to make a profit at Craven Park, hence the relatively high turnover of promoters.....

[Steve Shovlar]

When I was reading this my thoughts continually went to "thats what the 2016 promoters were doing" ie Gordon and Morton.

They were passionate about the venture - thay had worked for years to break away from the dog track, with passion.

There were faults with the stadium that were a direct result of the council/contractors action or lack of it.

We still dont know, probably never will, the detail of any financial handling that may have added to the problem.

They did assemble a team that topped the league table (but robbed of the important play off win).

 

But maybe the problem was your last point.....were/are Gordon and Morton buddies of Chapman.

 

I do remember on that fateful Saturday night back in March when the Peter Craven meeting was cancelled (which we are led to believe was a faulty track - council/contractor problem), it was either that night or the next day that a quote from Chapman was posted on the forum thread that blasted the management of BV.... I remember reading it and thinking he opening his mouth before facts are known (which is never good). It just seemed to me very in appropriate but at the same time....is there a dislike of BV success (ie getting a brand new stadium built from council funds) and was there some joy at its failure on the first meeting.

Chapman stated the bleedin obvious and what 99% of the rest of us thought.

 

The blame, 100% of it, was down to the Belle Vue promotion. The whole shocking day was their fault.

 

I recall making a post a couple of weeks before the opening event, where I said that I hope track testing is being carried out before the meeting, as the last thing we need is the track to be unrideable.

 

The response was that the first time the track is going to be used is heat one. I was shocked and said so on here. The whole sorry mess could have been completely avoided but the BV promotion dived head first into oblivion. Their lack of experience came crashing down around their heads like a stack of cards. They just didn't have the finances to promote Belle Vue in their new home and I guess they knew this very early on with crowd numbers nowhere near the required level to sustain the sport in the new stadium.

[mdmc82]

Happy new year. I hope Belle Vue & Coventry get good news in 2017 and come to the tapes.

[New Science]

Chapman stated the bleedin obvious and what 99% of the rest of us thought.

 

The blame, 100% of it, was down to the Belle Vue promotion. The whole shocking day was their fault.

 

I recall making a post a couple of weeks before the opening event, where I said that I hope track testing is being carried out before the meeting, as the last thing we need is the track to be unrideable.

 

The response was that the first time the track is going to be used is heat one. I was shocked and said so on here. The whole sorry mess could have been completely avoided but the BV promotion dived head first into oblivion. Their lack of experience came crashing down around their heads like a stack of cards. They just didn't have the finances to promote Belle Vue in their new home and I guess they knew this very early on with crowd numbers nowhere near the required level to sustain the sport in the new stadium.

Good points . I'm amazed people keep dancing around the facts of that night. Yes there was a problem with the track ,caused by the people / contractors that constructed it. But the Belle Vue promoters were aware of this and still opened the gates and carried on regardless.

[OveFundinFan]

Chapman stated the bleedin obvious and what 99% of the rest of us thought.

 

The blame, 100% of it, was down to the Belle Vue promotion. The whole shocking day was their fault.

 

I recall making a post a couple of weeks before the opening event, where I said that I hope track testing is being carried out before the meeting, as the last thing we need is the track to be unrideable.

 

The response was that the first time the track is going to be used is heat one. I was shocked and said so on here. The whole sorry mess could have been completely avoided but the BV promotion dived head first into oblivion. Their lack of experience came crashing down around their heads like a stack of cards. They just didn't have the finances to promote Belle Vue in their new home and I guess they knew this very early on with crowd numbers nowhere near the required level to sustain the sport in the new stadium.

If you think BVs problem completely centered around the failure of one night then IMO you are wrong. It was a contributing factor obviously, but I think there was much going on that forum members in general dont know much about. I recognise that some forum members are much nearer to hearing truths then others, but I dont think any on the forum are at the "centre" of truths and some like you, SS and I, are far from it.

I just think that there was a lot going on that "we" may never get to know about but to say all that went wrong could be blamed on one days event and all due to the fault of the promoters and it "they" had listened to you 2 weeks before the Peter Craven meeting then all would have been ok is, IMO, rubbish.

[B.V 72]

Chapman stated the bleedin obvious and what 99% of the rest of us thought.

 

The blame, 100% of it, was down to the Belle Vue promotion. The whole shocking day was their fault.

 

I recall making a post a couple of weeks before the opening event, where I said that I hope track testing is being carried out before the meeting, as the last thing we need is the track to be unrideable.

 

The response was that the first time the track is going to be used is heat one. I was shocked and said so on here. The whole sorry mess could have been completely avoided but the BV promotion dived head first into oblivion. Their lack of experience came crashing down around their heads like a stack of cards. They just didn't have the finances to promote Belle Vue in their new home and I guess they knew this very early on with crowd numbers nowhere near the required level to sustain the sport in the new stadium.

(Crowd numbers no where near the required level to sustain the sport in the new stadium.)

If this comment is correct no one would touch the place with a barge pole.So then how do you explain that as reported that there are 3 sperate groups of people in talks with the council all putting their cases forward why they should be chosen to be the new promoters of Belle vue speedway.I would think that they would all disagree with your comment.

[Starman2006]

Good points . I'm amazed people keep dancing around the facts of that night. Yes there was a problem with the track ,caused by the people / contractors that constructed it. But the Belle Vue promoters were aware of this and still opened the gates and carried on regardless.

Not just the promotion, the track curator as ive pointed out several times would have been there days before opening. He would have also known the situation, and should have reported such to Morton and Gordon.

[g13webb]

Good points? Mainly bollox actually.

 

Chapman didn't have a clue what the issue was, nobody knew what the problem was for several weeks, yet he made his statement. The karma of watching him drag mud around his own track on tv a few weeks later, after letting fans in when there was no chance of getting a bike on the track, especially after his statement criticising Belle Vue, was well earned.

 

Gordon did say the track wouldn't be ridden on before the first race on the opening night but it was. As everyone knows, there was a problem with the track, it was repaired and tested but the problem inexplicably reappeared.

 

I wouldn't describe someone as inexperienced after ten years.

 

The business plan was based on gates of '1800 to 2500' the average was within that range and was double the gates at the dog track.

 

As for finance, Belle Vue owe less to riders than they did at the end of 2015 yet not one rider mentioned it? A compensation offer has been made which wipes out the amount owed to the council.

 

The biggest mistake DG and Mort made was accepting the stadium without the permanent terrace and other facilities in the south,east and west stands. There isn't a speedway business in the UK that could have met an unexpected extra expense of £10k a month. If that meant no speedway in Manchester in 2016 so be it.

 

I've always resisted the temptation to have my 2 penny's worth because I have never been aware of the full facts. Obviously there have been many issues, we the fans are not aware off. But reading your post above tells me I was right not making any comments, and yes there were far more reasons why and how the situation was created.

 

What a pity more people didn't learn the truth before jumping in with two big feet and apportioned blame until the full facts were known.........

.

[Steve Shovlar]

Fundementally the whole shambles was the Belle Vue promotions fault.

 

Did they know there was a serious problem with the track before the opening meeting? Yes.

 

Did they open the gates on the opening meeting in the knowledge that there was a chance the riders might refuse to ride? Yes.

 

The whole debacle was the Belle Vue managements fault. Not the fact there was an issue with the track but the fact that they decided to run a meeting knowing of this issue. Thousands of people wasted hundreds of pounds attending a meeting that should have been postponed. Totally the Belle Vue promotions fault.

[scaramanga]

theres obviously lots of people that havnt been paid what they were expecting

now just who and how much we can only speculate through the rumours

but 1 thing for sure is there has been money thats went into the pot but it looks like not many people actually can trace where this money has gone

is it still there has it been sidelined or has it been spent on genuine bills

thats the issue has it just been a financial disastor or is there coruption involved

[B.V 72]

Fundementally the whole shambles was the Belle Vue promotions fault.

 

Did they know there was a serious problem with the track before the opening meeting? Yes.

 

Did they open the gates on the opening meeting in the knowledge that there was a chance the riders might refuse to ride? Yes.

 

The whole debacle was the Belle Vue managements fault. Not the fact there was an issue with the track but the fact that they decided to run a meeting knowing of this issue. Thousands of people wasted hundreds of pounds attending a meeting that should have been postponed. Totally the Belle Vue promotions fault.

You keep going over old ground you said all this back in March but you dont address a post in answer to the comment you made in the last part of your 1st post.

[Starman2006]

You keep going over old ground you said all this back in March but you dont address a post in answer to the comment you made in the last part of your 1st post.

And none of you are going round and round in circles,, no ?

[B.V 72]

And none of you are going round and round in circles,, no ?

You are a waste of oxygen.

[MattK]

(Crowd numbers no where near the required level to sustain the sport in the new stadium.)

If this comment is correct no one would touch the place with a barge pole.So then how do you explain that as reported that there are 3 sperate groups of people in talks with the council all putting their cases forward why they should be chosen to be the new promoters of Belle vue speedway.I would think that they would all disagree with your comment.

 

It is likely that the agreement with the new promoters will be very different to what Gordon and Morton had. Instead of leasing the stadium from the council it is likely the new promoters will simply rent the tracks for the nights they require and the council will maintain overall control of the day-to-day operations.

 

This will significantly reduce the costs, but also the potential income.

Edited January 1, 2017 by MattK

[waiheke1]

Good points . I'm amazed people keep dancing around the facts of that night. Yes there was a problem with the track ,caused by the people / contractors that constructed it. But the Belle Vue promoters were aware of this and still opened the gates and carried on regardless.

Had the promoters postponed the meeting would they still have had a claim against the contractors/council with regards to the track not being ready?

Or without this decision being made by a neutral (I. E. referee) would their claim have been void?

[speedy bill]

Just who is to blame .The council ,the builder ,The track inspector ,The referee , T he promoters The riders .Gordon and Morton run speedway for ten years at the dog hole and did a great job keeping it going.So how can they suddenly turn into bad promoters bull rubbish it was not there doing the club got into problems it was the builders and the track inspectors fault.They could not recover from the start they had Gordon and Morton are not to blame for this disaster ,so lets hope the culprits who are to blame get there comeuppance .Just who told them to put shale down on top of tarmac i dont know but whoever it was is to blame for the disaster that followed .But getting the council to admit there contractors f ed up is going to be hard ,they are all pissing in the same pot

Edited January 2, 2017 by bw double

[Pinny]

Starman again proving why he is the most ridiculed member of this forum.

 

No wonder matt ford thinks he is a nuisance (come from a couple of poole fans i met at that melbourne gp).

[OveFundinFan]

Just who is to blame .The council ,the builder ,The track inspector ,The referee , T he promoters The riders .Gordon and Morton run speedway for ten years at the dog hole and did a great job keeping it going.So how can they suddenly turn into bad promoters bull rubbish it was not there doing the club got into problems it was the builders and the track inspectors fault.They could not recover from the start they had Gordon and Morton are not to blame for this disaster ,so lets hope the culprits who are to blame get there comeuppance .Just who told them to put shale down on top of tarmac i dont know but whoever it was is to blame for the disaster that followed .But getting the council to admit there contractors f ed up is going to be hard ,they are all pissing in the same pot

Hi bw double, would you mind putting full stops in all the places they should be in your next posts. I was interested in what you were "saying" in the above post but it took me at least 3 reads to get the jist of the post, and of course I still may have guessed wrong.

 

The part I highlighted in RED, I not heard that before. I had heard the contractors laid a membrane upside down. Fitted correctly, this was to allow water to pass through downwards but not allow water to rise. Fitted upside down meant the track was not draining at that place. That was why more then 75% of the track was fine but bends 3-4 had to be dug up and the membrane fitted correctly. The membrane problem was only noticed when the track was being dug up.

Can anyone (with sense) confirm what the problem was due to???????

Had the promoters postponed the meeting would they still have had a claim against the contractors/council with regards to the track not being ready?

Or without this decision being made by a neutral (I. E. referee) would their claim have been void?

Some interesting and thoughtful points there

[B.V 72]

 

It is likely that the agreement with the new promoters will be very different to what Gordon and Morton had. Instead of leasing the stadium from the council it is likely the new promoters will simply rent the tracks for the nights they require and the council will maintain overall control of the day-to-day operations.

 

This will significantly reduce the costs, but also the potential income.

Thats the way most people think will happen.Which makes Shovlers comment even more wrong as the crowd numbers will be the main income and the new promoters must think there are enougth to sustain the sport in the new stadium.