Belle Vue 2017

[waiheke1]

 

If that team fits I'd be surprised. Would you really want Jacobs if he is not at reserve?

You can swap zagar and Payne for s worrall and Williamson.

.1 over being an le to swap out Richie rather than Steve in that combo. More likely we keep Steve and have hougarrd rather than Richie/zagar in that line up

[SteveEvans]

WHAT?! People don't want to get married in a speedway stadium?

 

You'll be telling member that all them pop groups rather than playing on the centre (with the sound down - as no loud noises like fireworks allowed) are choosing to play in indoor arenas too.

 

I hate saying it but told you so. The whole thing has been a farce from start to end!

 

As for giving them credit for building it etc. Are you kidding? I could build an £7m stadium with other people's money too!

 

The old stadium next door was packed to the rafters last Sunday for F1 Stox. Seeing the crowds they get at Coventry for a sport that pays low end prize money this should be looked into a revenue stream I would suggest. I would bet the stadium would be full and get in bigger crowds than speedway. Speedway alone may not be viable even with a clean slate.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/belle-vue-aces-bosses-say-12129749

 

Gives a tiny bit of info. We could have it rent free untill work had finished. Then we had to start paying rent which we never did

 

I was hoping the former owners would get their say. As I suspected, the opening night was the killer blow. Here's the bit I don't get though. David G blames the contractor and council. Now, in the fact that they did not present a product, he may be right. However, they cannot be blamed for the fact that the opening meeting was called off on the day or the loss of revenue. It was up to the experts (the promoters) to ensure that the track was ready to go and if not, they could have cancelled ahead of everyone being in the stadium. That would have given them time to restage the meeting without the flap of travelling fans, petrol and hotel costs. I was informed at the ACU by two of its most senior members two weeks before the meeting that there was no way the track would be ready.

 

As an analogy, if I had someone build me a house to live in, I'd sure as heck test that the floorboards were safe and sturdy before we move in and the kids start jumping off their beds! If I didn't, it wouldn't be the builders fault if my kids got hurt or worse - as a parent I am responsible for the home enviroment.

 

Having worked in the business world a while it is not uncommon for construction projects to fall behind schedule or need to be corrected. However, the fact that tickets were on sale about 11 month ahead for a race at a stadium that was no more than a construction site with a targetted completion date is a huge factor. The monies paid in Spring of 2015 could well have been used for 2015 season bills, or even clearing 2014 debts, for example. Had the event been a pay at the door deal then it wouldn't have created the mess it did. But it was an opportunity to raise revenue a year ahead, not an uncommon business practice but a very bad decision in retrospect.

 

The responsibility for the insolvency of the business lies 100% on whoever within the promotion gave the go ahead to run the meeting versus cancelling ahead of the day and the ensuing disaster. The track was handed over, it should have been extensivey tested and approved and the meeting cancelled at the first note of the problem. Rescheduled a month later, all would have been fine.

 

I do not feel that DG or CM are bad people at all. Mort is a wonderful guy, I don't really know David. But big business mistakes can cost and this one was a whopper.

Edited November 5, 2016 by SteveEvans

[waiheke1]

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/07608471/B-V-ARENA-LIMITED/companies-house-data

 

HELP, I don't understand this.

 

How can David gordon and Chris Morton be in so much debt yet George Carswell is in the black by 300k. All in the same company.

 

Yes George may have the rider assets but they don't add up to 300k surely

Can't access the full accounts. but if these are for year to April 16 I have a real issue with that currentvliability figure. surely all the monies for the called off meeting should be classed here? certainly the cash received should not have been treated as revenue prior to the meeting being staged.

Superficially at least the balance sheet looks very healthy, which makes no sense if there were historic financial issues.

Unless Carswell had pumped in a heap of cash to the venture, which would explain his equity?

If anyone has the full accounts pls pm me, I'd be keen to view them.

[montie]

Two things emerge so far from this thread really

 

The Aces ran out of cash

 

Little Thumper is one miserable get!

 

(cheer up fella,life is far more fun when you dont continue to look for negatives)

[Phil The Ace]

Regarding the stadium being given u defused away from the speedway. I may have told a little white lie. Not on purpose. I just forgot about these nights.

 

They have had a motown night which was sold out

 

They got an Elvis tribute band coming up which is sold out

 

And they got a few weeks of Xmas parties which are now sold out.

 

Whether these are now in danger of not happening I don't know. But should imagine they will still go ahead

 

 

Incidentally the Halloween night got cancelled

[Trees]

And those are your examples of how to pay for a multi-million pound stadium in Gorton.

It's business 'acumen' like that, that has GOT them into this mess.

So nobody was using their multi use, all weather pitch this year?

[Phil The Ace]

 

The old stadium next door was packed to the rafters last Sunday for F1 Stox. Seeing the crowds they get at Coventry for a sport that pays low end prize money this should be looked into a revenue stream I would suggest. I would bet the stadium would be full and get in bigger crowds than speedway. Speedway alone may not be viable even with a clean slate.

 

 

I was hoping the former owners would get their say. As I suspected, the opening night was the killer blow. Here's the bit I don't get though. David G blames the contractor and council. Now, in the fact that they did not present a product, he may be right. However, they cannot be blamed for the fact that the opening meeting was called off on the day or the loss of revenue. It was up to the experts (the promoters) to ensure that the track was ready to go and if not, they could have cancelled ahead of everyone being in the stadium. That would have given them time to restage the meeting without the flap of travelling fans, petrol and hotel costs. I was informed at the ACU by two of its most senior members two weeks before the meeting that there was no way the track would be ready.

 

As an analogy, if I had someone build me a house to live in, I'd sure as heck test that the floorboards were safe and sturdy before we move in and the kids start jumping off their beds! If I didn't, it wouldn't be the builders fault if my kids got hurt or worse - as a parent I am responsible for the home enviroment.

 

Having worked in the business world a while it is not uncommon for construction projects to fall behind schedule or need to be corrected. However, the fact that tickets were on sale about 11 month ahead for a race at a stadium that was no more than a construction site with a targetted completion date is a huge factor. The monies paid in Spring of 2015 could well have been used for 2015 season bills, or even clearing 2014 debts, for example. Had the event been a pay at the door deal then it wouldn't have created the mess it did. But it was an opportunity to raise revenue a year ahead, not an uncommon business practice but a very bad decision in retrospect.

 

The responsibility for the insolvency of the business lies 100% on whoever within the promotion gave the go ahead to run the meeting versus cancelling ahead of the day and the ensuing disaster. The track was handed over, it should have been extensivey tested and approved and the meeting cancelled at the first note of the problem. Rescheduled a month later, all would have been fine.

 

I do not feel that DG or CM are bad people at all. Mort is a wonderful guy, I don't really know David. But big business mistakes can cost and this one was a whopper.

I don't see the PC meeting as the start of the fall from grace.

 

They took the massive debt from murky Lane next door. And the council knew this and still allowed David gordon to run the show. He never had the money to do so.

 

If they wanted a new track I would have bought out the GRA for cheap as they are skint and done up the run down stadium.

 

Or

 

Do what Scunthorpe and Somerset have done. Dump a brilliant race track in the middle of a field and each year improve things around the premises. Much cheaper to do.

 

 

Saying that I love the NSS and wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

 

 

BBC news stated there a few interested parties and that we should know who's buying it next week.

 

Whoever they are they are keeping it a secret as even I've not heard any rumours which is a tad strange. I think it will be a shock to people once new owners are revealed, or if they are revealed.

 

I'd say some kind of Peter Collins lead consortium putting Mark lemon as promotor and getting in a new team manager. But I'm probably way of the scale with that one.

So nobody was using their multi use, all weather pitch this year?

Nope. There was a problem with the pitch originally as the construction company idioted that up.

 

But the last few weeks there have been people playing footy on the pitch. Who I don't know and if they pay for it I don't know.

 

Wasn't the pitch on the infield for the school next door to use?????

Edited November 5, 2016 by Phil The Ace

[Halifaxtiger]

And those are your examples of how to pay for a multi-million pound stadium in Gorton.

It's business 'acumen' like that, that has GOT them into this mess.

 

Not at all, simply responding to a comment that no-one wants to get married in a speedway stadium.

 

I sincerely believe that every single revenue stream should be explored, as just using this fantastic facility twice a week for half the year is a total waste and utterly ignores the potential it has aside from speedway.

 

I could make a fair argument that the failure of the previous promotion on the Isle of Wight to make full use of Smallbrook contributed to the end of the speedway team, and that the present promotions furious attempts to ensure that it is used are far more likely to guarantee the presence of the sport there.

[Steve0]

Cook, Fricke, both Worralls, Jacobs, Bewley, Williamson?

 

What a shockingly poor looking team! The points limit is a joke!

[Phil The Ace]

 

Not at all, simply responding to a comment that no-one wants to get married in a speedway stadium.

 

I sincerely believe that every single revenue stream should be explored, as just using this fantastic facility twice a week for half the year is a total waste and utterly ignores the potential it has aside from speedway.

 

I could make a fair argument that the failure of the previous promotion on the Isle of Wight to make full use of Smallbrook contributed to the end of the speedway team, and that the present promotions furious attempts to ensure that it is used are far more likely to guarantee the presence of the sport there.

There it's lots of ways. Open practices 4 days a week. You would probably get 10 riders on each day. £40 per rider totalling £400 for the day. X that by 4 times a week and that's £1600 a week extra income.

 

You can have amateur meetings like Scunthorpe

 

They had planned to.bring flat track meetings over the winter but I'm unsure what kind of crowds they get.

 

If we get a new owner the first thing I would do is start arranging a meeting for boxing day or any meeting around that time

 

 

Get some decent PL/EL riders that are based over here. I bet they get a few 1000 people in for it. Easy money

[Halifaxtiger]

 

The old stadium next door was packed to the rafters last Sunday for F1 Stox. Seeing the crowds they get at Coventry for a sport that pays low end prize money this should be looked into a revenue stream I would suggest. I would bet the stadium would be full and get in bigger crowds than speedway. Speedway alone may not be viable even with a clean slate.

 

I was hoping the former owners would get their say. As I suspected, the opening night was the killer blow. Here's the bit I don't get though. David G blames the contractor and council. Now, in the fact that they did not present a product, he may be right. However, they cannot be blamed for the fact that the opening meeting was called off on the day or the loss of revenue. It was up to the experts (the promoters) to ensure that the track was ready to go and if not, they could have cancelled ahead of everyone being in the stadium. That would have given them time to restage the meeting without the flap of travelling fans, petrol and hotel costs. I was informed at the ACU by two of its most senior members two weeks before the meeting that there was no way the track would be ready.

 

As an analogy, if I had someone build me a house to live in, I'd sure as heck test that the floorboards were safe and sturdy before we move in and the kids start jumping off their beds! If I didn't, it wouldn't be the builders fault if my kids got hurt or worse - as a parent I am responsible for the home enviroment.

 

Having worked in the business world a while it is not uncommon for construction projects to fall behind schedule or need to be corrected. However, the fact that tickets were on sale about 11 month ahead for a race at a stadium that was no more than a construction site with a targetted completion date is a huge factor. The monies paid in Spring of 2015 could well have been used for 2015 season bills, or even clearing 2014 debts, for example. Had the event been a pay at the door deal then it wouldn't have created the mess it did. But it was an opportunity to raise revenue a year ahead, not an uncommon business practice but a very bad decision in retrospect.

 

The responsibility for the insolvency of the business lies 100% on whoever within the promotion gave the go ahead to run the meeting versus cancelling ahead of the day and the ensuing disaster. The track was handed over, it should have been extensivey tested and approved and the meeting cancelled at the first note of the problem. Rescheduled a month later, all would have been fine.

 

I do not feel that DG or CM are bad people at all. Mort is a wonderful guy, I don't really know David. But big business mistakes can cost and this one was a whopper.

 

Fine post

 

I think Phil is right, though, the PC meeting was really the straw that broke the camels back rather than the start of the matter.

 

I also don't think its unreasonable to sell tickets for a meeting on the understanding that the stadium will be finished on time. Having said that, I agree that the fault for actually running the meeting must lie with the promotion.

[Phil The Ace]

What a shockingly poor looking team! The points limit is a joke!

Yeh every team will look poor but at least it should give the leagues some credibility come end of the year for promotion/relegation. No premiership team is now safe. So some tv broadcasters like BBC make take more interest in three sport.

 

Clubs needed to.cut cost and that's what they have done. But they have given them the option if they want to, to get a big GP star in.

 

Fine post

 

I think Phil is right, though, the PC meeting was really the straw that broke the camels back rather than the start of the matter.

 

I also don't think its unreasonable to sell tickets for a meeting on the understanding that the stadium will be finished on time. Having said that, I agree that the fault for actually running the meeting must lie with the promotion.

100% there fault. They knew there was a problem but thought the lads would still ride. Forgetting that the line up had some world class prima Donna's who would refuse to ride it. (Rightly so BTW)

 

I spoke with some NL boys and PL boys who said they would have rode it but taken extra care on 3rd and 4th bend.

 

 

If the new promotion was to re run the meeting and get a similar type of line up or even better line up do you think they would get a 3000+ crowd again. It would be a nice money spinner to start the season and there tenure at belle vue

[Halifaxtiger]

There it's lots of ways. Open practices 4 days a week. You would probably get 10 riders on each day. £40 per rider totalling £400 for the day. X that by 4 times a week and that's £1600 a week extra income.

 

You can have amateur meetings like Scunthorpe

 

They had planned to.bring flat track meetings over the winter but I'm unsure what kind of crowds they get.

 

If we get a new owner the first thing I would do is start arranging a meeting for boxing day or any meeting around that time

 

 

Get some decent PL/EL riders that are based over here. I bet they get a few 1000 people in for it. Easy money

 

That's precisely it.

 

I know Somerset hold boot sales on their car park. Peanuts you might say, but 100 cars at £5 is £500 a week and over the winter months that's probably £10k.

 

Its very easy to be critical of holding small events at the stadium but doing something week in, week out will generate significant revenue - revenue that wouldn't be there otherwise.

[Phil The Ace]

 

That's precisely it.

 

I know Somerset hold boot sales on their car park. Peanuts you might say, but 100 cars at £5 is £500 a week and over the winter months that's probably £10k.

 

Its very easy to be critical of holding small events at the stadium but doing something week in, week out will generate significant revenue - revenue that wouldn't be there otherwise.

Mark lemons wife if I am correct is marketing manager at Aintree race course. Get her involved and use her contacts to market belle vue speedway

[Steve0]

Yeh every team will look poor but at least it should give the leagues some credibility come end of the year for promotion/relegation. No premiership team is now safe. So some tv broadcasters like BBC make take more interest in three sport.

Clubs needed to.cut cost and that's what they have done. But they have given them the option if they want to, to get a big GP star in.

Some good points but at the end of the day who would pay to go and see a team like that and how will they attract new supporters! They have been diluting the league year on year from when the first introduced their 3 year plan and there comes a time when you have to say enough is enough - the EDRs did that for me!

[B.V 72]

What a shockingly poor looking team! The points limit is a joke!

True but start with a 13+average no1 and see what the rest of the team looks like.

[Phil The Ace]

Some good points but at the end of the day who would pay to go and see a team like that and how will they attract new supporters! They have been diluting the league year on year from when the first introduced their 3 year plan and there comes a time when you have to say enough is enough - the EDRs did that for me!

It's a double edged sword really. The crowds dont pay for the riders in Sweden or Poland. It's all about sponsorship.

 

The clubs need to go and get massive sponsorship That pays for the riders

 

Unfortunately sponsorship (unless your at poole) seems to be hard to find

 

Clubs only probably get about 20k a season from there main team sponsor. That's not enough for the season.

 

Get sponsors in. Get it to £13 speedway and £10 in championship and flood the stadiums in

 

Following year we improve the product and keep improving it year on year.

 

Speedway over here needs to start from the bottom and build. This may take a few years

 

The question you have to ask though is have we got years left to save the sport in this country??

[Steve0]

True but start with a 13+average no1 and see what the rest of the team looks like.

I know - makes that team look good

[Halifaxtiger]

Some good points but at the end of the day who would pay to go and see a team like that and how will they attract new supporters! They have been diluting the league year on year from when the first introduced their 3 year plan and there comes a time when you have to say enough is enough - the EDRs did that for me!

 

The problem is Steve what do you do ?

 

I find there are a huge number of people on this forum who are nothing but critical but never come up with any alternative solutions.

 

We have seen both Belle Vue and Leicester almost go to the wall this season. Berwick were up for sale, Workington are in by the skin of their teeth and Plymouth are out. That suggests that what we had last season simply has to change - the one thing we can't do is stand still.

 

In the top flight, we could go all out to attract the big riders. One home meeting a fortnight, all on the same night (if that's possible). But its clear that would be a massive financial gamble with the possibility of breaking top flight speedway in this country for good.

 

I'd accept some might walk away because teams become weaker. Better that than take the huge risk getting the big riders in.

[Steve0]

The problem is Steve what do you do ?

 

I find there are a huge number of people on this forum who are nothing but critical but never come up with any alternative solutions.

 

We have seen both Belle Vue and Leicester almost go to the wall this season. Berwick were up for sale, Workington are in by the skin of their teeth and Plymouth are out. That suggests that what we had last season simply has to change - the one thing we can't do is stand still.

 

In the top flight, we could go all out to attract the big riders. One home meeting a fortnight, all on the same night (if that's possible). But its clear that would be a massive financial gamble with the possibility of breaking top flight speedway in this country for good.

 

I'd accept some might walk away because teams become weaker. Better that than take the huge risk getting the big riders in.

Cutting costs is a given and the promoters have delivered on that front again. However, there are alternatives - put the fans first and give them value for money. Give them a team that is exciting and successful, promote it, cost the admission prices appropriately and look to give them a good night out that doesn't mean presentation from the 70s, 15 heats and nothing else. Give good value for money and fans will come out and also it will attract new fans. Additionally sort out the rules and be transparent so there are not the annual dodgy moves from the south coast - put the credibility back and make it incredible and then the sport can move forward. Edited November 5, 2016 by Steve0