Belle Vue 2017

[Guest]

I can only surmise - and obviously am not party to the real facts - but possibly the action taken in regard to the stadium by the local council was because of concerns in regard to the continuation of payments to them being met in the close season when no revenue was possibly going to be forthcoming? Like it or not, at the end of the day the council's responsibility is to its own residents and ratepayers many of whom have no interest in speedway rather than our sport?

Edited November 4, 2016 by Guest

[mikebv]

THINK that is only part of it. Loss of revenue and, of course, goodwill from opening night was a massive factor and the battle for compensation from the council, who in turn were I think withholding money from the construction company.

 

Don't know whether the full story will ever come out but no doubt Gordon will want to put his side once any impending litigation is resolved.

 

Sadly, I think he and Chris made some serious errors of judgement in running the speedway side of the business and personally think Mark Lemon, a smart guy, could prove a great asset going forward.

Didn't Mark Lemons wife do the marketing at Aintree including the Grand National?

 

Maybe she could come on board with all her contacts...?

 

Certainly majorly lacking in the way they have marketed the team and venue considering such a fantastic new facilty..

[B.V 72]

I am not a business man but would the debt be owed by Gordons and Mortons company Belle vue arena ltd.Leaving any new promoter to start with a clean sheet and work out their own deal with the council ?.

Better to have a good reassessed affordable long term rent than have a empty stadium.As i cannot see many other sports interested in useing the stadium wanting to take over the high payments to buy it they would probably want to rent it as well.

Edited November 4, 2016 by B.V 72

[Halifaxtiger]

SPEEDWAY cannot survive next door and why should we all give up on what is one of the best stadiums and tracks in the world.

 

By the sound of it the Council don't want to see speedway not running there either and by working together with some sort of consortium it can still continue.

 

As I have previously said, needs BSI (World Team Cup rounds, Finals) and the FIM (GP Challenge, Under 21 Finals) to help by putting top meetings there. It is easy to throw darts at Gordon and Morton (who has probably lost everything) now but let's not forget they did bring the stadium into fruition.

 

Equally since that disastrous opening night, for which they still blame the construction company employed by the council, and the immediate loss of considerable revenue then and the bonanza Good Friday meeting against Wolverhampton things might, just might, have turned out differently.

 

I do understand that while the stadium has terrific facilities that can be used for weddings, conferences, etc, its location is not exactly a prime one and they have found it hard to attract such events.

 

A new stadium manager, probably a Council appointee, the retention Mark Lemon with a bigger role, and outside funding could yet provide a winning formula for the stadium to remain what it actually is ... by some distance the best race track in the UK and a fabulous venue for British speedway. Long may it survive.

 

Personally, I'd say that the loss of a National Stadium after one season when speedway has waited for it since its conception would be one of the biggest disasters that the sport has ever had to deal with. As you rightly say, it is a superb facility with an excellent track.

 

I went over about 3 weeks before the opening meeting and they were still building the back straight terracing and access for the machinery was via the third and fourth bends. It was pretty clear at that time that it wouldn't be ready for the opening meeting and the delay after that date in actually staging speedway says it all. Whether the construction company are to blame for the opening night fiasco is open to debate but they most certainly are to blame for the stadium not being ready on time.

 

I believe that the key to making the stadium pay is not speedway but ensuring that it is used for other events. Speedway takes up at most 2 nights per week and, as Ian Thomas once told Newport's Tim Stone, you don't own a corner shop and open it up once a week. Isle of Wight have certainly taken steps in that direction by attracting events to Smallbrook that bring in additional revenue.

[GregoryM]

I am not a business man but would the debt be owed by Gordons and Mortons company Belle vue arena ltd.Leaving any new promoter to start with a clean sheet and work out their own deal with the council ?.

Like you I'm no business man, but this sounds like what should really happen.

 

And presumably, at the same time, the new promoter would not be liable for any of the arrangements etc BVA had with fans such as 'Buy A Brick'/ refunds to anyone still holding Grand Opening Meeting tickets and honouring the benefits of the Belle Vue 500 Club? Perhap the latter ceases to exist if / when BVA is dissolved?

 

Maybe someone with legal knowledge can throw some light on this?

[arnieg]

What do most tracks pay to hire a stadium? Surely all teams either pay giraffe, or gave significant investment tied up if it is their own.

Really? So a plumber with his own business needs to employ a fill time h&s for his business. the local corner shop does? the local pub?

Can you point me to the legislation which mandates this, as I can't find it.

It's in the Sports Safety legislation. The guide at

 

http://safetyatsportsgrounds.org.uk/publications/green-guide

 

specifically mentions speedway! (page 12)

 

Details about responsible employee are on pages 25-26

[Phil The Ace]

For me the best way of going forward is a groundshare with a football or rugby team. Even a hockey team at the very least

[Guest]

Aren't the financial problems in regard to the National Stadium in regard to meeting the initial costs o building and establishing the venue rather than a need - albeit important in its own right - to find prospective tenants to use the place. The local council - and almost certainly its ratepayers - appear to be looking as to how the initial costs of building the stadium rather than finding those interested in renting and using available facilities. Does anyone living in Manchester know if the present problems on financing the stadium have been raised at recent council meetings and, if so, what opinions councillors had to say about things?

[Little Thumper]

I am not a business man but would the debt be owed by Gordons and Mortons company Belle vue arena ltd.Leaving any new promoter to start with a clean sheet and work out their own deal with the council ?.

Better to have a good reassessed affordable long term rent than have a empty stadium.As i cannot see many other sports interested in useing the stadium wanting to take over the high payments to buy it they would probably want to rent it as well.

 

At the end of the day, if the rent hasn't been paid then that money is still owed to the citizens of Manchester and the council must take all reasonable steps to recover the money and obviously, consideration must be given to seeking redress through the courts.

 

Should the City Council enter into a new agreement with a new speedway tenant, then it will surely require the arrangement to be underwritten by a third party, as to allow further public money to be wasted would surely be deemed negligent.

 

Perhaps, a one or two year lease may be agreed with a new (backed by guarantor) tenant whilst the Council looks for a suitable and solvent long-term occupier who is prepared to take on what may otherwise become a rather expensive white elephant.

 

I think that this sad tale may haunt British speedway for many years to come.

[woodenspoon]

For me the best way of going forward is a groundshare with a football or rugby team. Even a hockey team at the very least

 

It seems to have been bad planning to expect the Stadium to pay its way with just speedway, which only runs 6 months of the year, as you said Phil we need another sport to fill the gap.

 

The centre pitch looks quite large, but is it big enough for a football or rugby pitch, without having to compromise the track corners.

 

Does anyone know if the stadium hosted any other entertainment this year, as without being fully utilised it will never pay its way.

 

The one thing we must all be grateful for is the support of the Manchester City Council, who despite the goings on, are still looking for speedway to continue.

 

Swindon fans take heed, I hope your promotion make a better job of running a stadium than our departed promotion did.

[Phil The Ace]

 

It seems to have been bad planning to expect the Stadium to pay its way with just speedway, which only runs 6 months of the year, as you said Phil we need another sport to fill the gap.

 

The centre pitch looks quite large, but is it big enough for a football or rugby pitch, without having to compromise the track corners.

 

Does anyone know if the stadium hosted any other entertainment this year, as without being fully utilised it will never pay its way.

 

The one thing we must all be grateful for is the support of the Manchester City Council, who despite the goings on, are still looking for speedway to continue.

 

Swindon fans take heed, I hope your promotion make a better job of running a stadium than our departed promotion did.

Absolutely nothing outside speedway happened.

[woodenspoon]

Absolutely nothing outside speedway happened.

 

Which beggars the question of who is responsible for getting other events at the stadium, without which it is a bit of a white elephant.

 

Perhaps requirements re Health & Safety & Security, and rent, make in unviable for other sports to come into the stadium. I would have thought any money coming in would at least go someway to pay the overheads.

[Little Thumper]

Absolutely nothing outside speedway happened.

 

Wow!

That is hugely, hugely disappointing and all those involved with this venture must have known from a very early stage that the business model was fundamentally flawed and that it would be about as successful as the maiden voyage of the Titanic.

 

As for some other sport hiring out the grass in the middle of the arena, I struggle to think of any organization that would be prepared to pay much for this privilege.

 

The council will surely have a viable plan to recoup the millions of pounds that it has spent and it must surely realize that, in the long term, an alternative use must be found for the venue.

 

A short term speedway tenant would keep the venue alive until a more suitable occupier could be found.

 

This is all rather sad.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Little Thumper

[B.V 72]

 

At the end of the day, if the rent hasn't been paid then that money is still owed to the citizens of Manchester and the council must take all reasonable steps to recover the money and obviously, consideration must be given to seeking redress through the courts.

 

Should the City Council enter into a new agreement with a new speedway tenant, then it will surely require the arrangement to be underwritten by a third party, as to allow further public money to be wasted would surely be deemed negligent.

 

Perhaps, a one or two year lease may be agreed with a new (backed by guarantor) tenant whilst the Council looks for a suitable and solvent long-term occupier who is prepared to take on what may otherwise become a rather expensive white elephant.

 

I think that this sad tale may haunt British speedway for many years to come.

As i see it it is Belle vue arena ltd who owe the council any money(Gordon and Morton) the debt has nothing to do with the BSPA or any new promoter.So the fight for moneys owed for this year will be between Belle vue arena ltd and the council.From what i have read on here Morton has lost his house and i would say that Gordon will be paying in some way as well so the council will get as much money back as they can off those two.Its then up to them to find new revenue from the stadium ie renting it to another speedway promoter and find other possible uses as well to generate revenue rather than leave it as a empty white elephant.

[FAST GATER]

I maybe alone in this but I really do feel for Chris Morton as I have witnessed on numereous occasions the effort he put in to get this project completed ,no matter how bad anyone feels I am sure they feel no worse than he will at this moment .

 

The most important thing now is that speedway and the Aces continue to race at the NSS as this staduim really is the jewel in the crown of this sport and the Ace's are part of speedway heritage that must be protected at all costs

Edited November 4, 2016 by FAST GATER

[waiheke1]

I maybe alone in this but I really do feel for Chris Morten as I have witnessed on numereous occasions the effort he put in to get this project completed ,no matter how bad anyone feels I am sure they feel no worse than he will at this moment .

 

The most important thing now is that speedway and the Aces continue to race at the NSS as this staduim really is the jewel in the crown of this sport and the Ace's are part of speedway heritage that must be protected at all costs

i have every sympathy for Chris Morton, the provider of so many happy memories at the great Hyde Rd, and this must be heart breaking for him, and his family if it is true he has lost his house.

at the same time, there has obviously been quite high levels of incompetence. i really dont understand how both riders and rent can have gone unpaid for so much of the season - where did the gate money go? If it was servicing debts from prior to the move to the stadium, you have to wonder if the council was aware of these debts when the business plan was submitted. Is there still an ongoing insurance claim for lost revenues from the opening meeting - as presumably that would cover the bulk of the rental payments?

[OveFundinFan]

The new speedway stadium was part of Manchester City Councils plan to promote sport in that area. Etihad Man City stadium is just 2 miles away, the National Velodrome is within that area as well. It was all part of a plan to promote sport in the east area of Manchester. The fact the stadium centre green was mapped out for various ball games highlights that point.

Manchester City Council would be well aware that speedway is a seasonal sport and running say 20 meetings per year. From statistics the Council would know what crowd attended the dog track speedway in the previous years to 2016 - that track is just a couple hundred yards away. So logically, someone with the expertise would have the responsibility of looking after the promotion of the whole stadium (perhaps excluding the speedway but maybe not). If that is so, some answers are due as to why expectations have not been realised.

 

I do feel sorry for Dave Gordon and Chris Morton who have toiled very hard over the last 10 years to get a race track worthy of carrying the name of Belle Vue Aces - a team with loads of speedway history and renowned throughout the world of speedway. Irrespective of what has gone on re the new stadium I would like to say "thank you" to both of them

[Little Thumper]

I maybe alone in this but I really do feel for Chris Morten as I have witnessed on numereous occasions the effort he put in to get this project completed ,no matter how bad anyone feels I am sure they feel no worse than he will at this moment .

 

The most important thing now is that speedway and the Aces continue to race at the NSS as this staduim really is the jewel in the crown of this sport and the Ace's are part of speedway heritage that must be protected at all costs

 

For this to happen, the sport's governing body will have to step up to the plate and underwrite/organize further speedway activity at Belle Vue Arena.

 

Manchester City Council cannot be seen to enter into any other agreement which risks losing any more of the money which belongs to the people of Manchester. This would be viewed as incompetence of the highest order.

 

You can't just say, let's wipe the slate clean and start again.

The money that is being risked is the same money that pays to keep libraries open, provides schools and care for the elderly and infirm.

 

Any council that "fritters" money away on "vanity projects" may find themselves with some very uncomfortable questions to answer.

 

Hopefully, clever people will be beavering away on a solution that keeps Belle Vue Speedway in operation and ensures that outstanding debts are honoured.

[damosuzuki]

The money is a drop in the ocean to Manchester City Council. Off course they will be attempting to recoup it, but it looks to me like the previous promotion are going to be declared insolvent so there will be the avenues that entails. As I've said they did great getting the stadium but the promotion aspect was dreadful.

 

If they can get rugby or American football, field sports or whatever in addition it would be ideal. But given they have one of the best speedway stadiums in the world, and it has been packed a good few times this year, Throwing good money at turning it into something else completely sounds crazy.

 

Maybe we should calm down and realise what we are talking abut is a failed promotion, not a failed sport, not the definitive example of why speedway is f****. It happens all the time in football for example. Sometimes the club disappears for good, but often (Rangers, Airdrie, Motherwell, Hearts) they are reborn.

 

For me, it was proved this year that the stadium CAN work. They just need the right deal, and the right promoters.

[waiheke1]

 

For this to happen, the sport's governing body will have to step up to the plate and underwrite/organize further speedway activity at Belle Vue Arena.

 

Manchester City Council cannot be seen to enter into any other agreement which risks losing any more of the money which belongs to the people of Manchester. This would be viewed as incompetence of the highest order.

 

You can't just say, let's wipe the slate clean and start again.

The money that is being risked is the same money that pays to keep libraries open, provides schools and care for the elderly and infirm.

 

Any council that "fritters" money away on "vanity projects" may find themselves with some very uncomfortable questions to answer.

 

Hopefully, clever people will be beavering away on a solution that keeps Belle Vue Speedway in operation and ensures that outstanding debts are honoured.

but the money on the staidum has already been spent. Leaving it empty because you are worried the next tenants may default is hardly going to help the residents of manchester. they just need to do a good scutiny of any business plan, and insist on payments througout the season,