Star Lady Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 ROSCO'S involvement would have been minimal and Woffinden rides for Wroclaw, who desperately wanted him there. It's not rocket science. Of course it's not you gave the answer in an earlier post I HONESTLY cannot answer that, I'm not as closely involves as I once was, but it wasn't ago when I knew of a British rider who reckoned that he only had to score around six points to come away with in excess of £10,000. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 That's great that they proved to be winners. But you should check the stats. They tell the story quite plainly, unfortunately. In Scotland where I teach, primary school pupils are supposed to have 2 hours PE per week. Many don't, simply because PE is still by many seen as not one of the crucial subjects. Compare that to Finland, where I'm on holiday right now, where primary school pupils do an hour of PE every day! There's a huge difference in attitude right away! Not placing any bets but the plan I'm quoting says only 2 hours a week for kids 7-12 or so. In ice hockey where we really are pretty good still, they introduced this "everyone plays" and "no goals counted" crap sometime ago. Spoken to plenty of people that say it will kill the success of the top in the future. But ice hockey is so big and well scouted in Finland, that the best ones will keep coming through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewmac Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 Not placing any bets but the plan I'm quoting says only 2 hours a week for kids 7-12 or so. In ice hockey where we really are pretty good still, they introduced this "everyone plays" and "no goals counted" crap sometime ago. Spoken to plenty of people that say it will kill the success of the top in the future. But ice hockey is so big and well scouted in Finland, that the best ones will keep coming through. Yes, so Finland is going down the same route as the UK. Fair enough. But my point was simply that kids in Scotland should be taught that sport is by its very nature competitive. To pretend otherwise seems to me to be cheating them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 But my point was simply that kids in Scotland should be taught that sport is by its very nature competitive. To pretend otherwise seems to me to be cheating them. The educational plan I read last night also spoke that Physical Education in school (I trust that PE meant that) should not concentrate in competitive doing, but in the actual doing and feeling better... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewmac Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) The educational plan I read last night also spoke that Physical Education in school (I trust that PE meant that) should not concentrate in competitive doing, but in the actual doing and feeling better...Oh dear :-( I'm in Finland on holiday right now and I haven't read the new curriculum guidelines yet. Sounds ominous... Edited July 17, 2017 by stewmac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 Oh dear :-( I'm in Finland on holiday right now and I haven't read the new curriculum guidelines yet. Sounds ominous... ... to strenghten the experienced joy of PE and positive feeling regarding one's own body. This is believed to lead to kids and youth to voluntarily increase their activity on their PE. Whatever... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewmac Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 ... to strenghten the experienced joy of PE and positive feeling regarding one's own body. This is believed to lead to kids and youth to voluntarily increase their activity on their PE. Whatever... I'm meeting some Finnish teachers tomorrow in Varkaus before heading to the speedway there. I'll ask them about it all ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 He was a TV "expert" summariser / commentator a few years back, which is why I had to look him up...to see what he as an expert at, like...sort of thing...It kind of sticks though, someone with the name of Boycott, boycotting his national team...not the sort of thing you forget lol. Except that England started winning the Ashes once he returned. Surprised you had to look up Boycott - one of the greatest batsman of any era. All sorts of cliques and favouritism in England circles in that era, and Boycott was also unfairly criticised at times, even though his runs, average and strike rate speak for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 ROSCO'S involvement would have been minimal and Woffinden rides for Wroclaw, who desperately wanted him there. It's not rocket science. I dare say principles can be forgotten when its in the individual's own self interest, not rocket science either. Read the Sunday Times interview with Tai this week end, a lot of old news, I want to buy British Speedway blah blah blah. It seems Woffindens tipping point came when asked to eat in a Danish kebab house, so enraged was he that he turned out in the speedway world cup final in Manchester one year later. I also didn't realise ' retarded' was still part of the English language 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPNY Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 You can dislike the guy and that's fair enough but seems silly ignore valid points he made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 That's great that they proved to be winners. But you should check the stats. They tell the story quite plainly, unfortunately. In Scotland where I teach, primary school pupils are supposed to have 2 hours PE per week. Many don't, simply because PE is still by many seen as not one of the crucial subjects. Compare that to Finland, where I'm on holiday right now, where primary school pupils do an hour of PE every day! There's a huge difference in attitude right away! Not placing any bets but the plan I'm quoting says only 2 hours a week for kids 7-12 or so. In ice hockey where we really are pretty good still, they introduced this "everyone plays" and "no goals counted" crap sometime ago. Spoken to plenty of people that say it will kill the success of the top in the future. But ice hockey is so big and well scouted in Finland, that the best ones will keep coming through. Well not taking stewmac's word for it,i did check the stats and guess what he seems to be wrong again and my Finnish friend f-s-p is about right According to UNESCO stats England and also Scotland have more time doing PE in primary schools.According to the stats 120 mins per week whereas Finland only average about 88 mins a week!!!Ok it does state that this is allocated time and in some schools it could be as low as 60 mins.But the Finnish stats also say there is a range from 75 min to 90 mins.But it seems we are doing quite well.Ireland who do have some success at sprts only manage 59 minutes whilst France do a whopping 220 minutes per week!!!! Now show me how France are twice as good as England or GB.Ok they might be twice as good as Scotland granted,but Hungary do more sports than Germany and are they better at sport? Or is this theory bull? http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0022/002293/229335e.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewmac Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) Well not taking stewmac's word for it,i did check the stats and guess what he seems to be wrong again and my Finnish friend f-s-p is about right According to UNESCO stats England and also Scotland have more time doing PE in primary schools.According to the stats 120 mins per week whereas Finland only average about 88 mins a week!!!Ok it does state that this is allocated time and in some schools it could be as low as 60 mins.But the Finnish stats also say there is a range from 75 min to 90 mins.But it seems we are doing quite well.Ireland who do have some success at sprts only manage 59 minutes whilst France do a whopping 220 minutes per week!!!! Now show me how France are twice as good as England or GB.Ok they might be twice as good as Scotland granted,but Hungary do more sports than Germany and are they better at sport? Or is this theory bull? http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0022/002293/229335e.pdf Well, while I must commend your detective skills iris123, and I'm delighted you went to so much trouble to try to disprove what you thought I was saying. However, if you go back and read these posts once more, slowly, you will see clearly that you have made a complete cock-up of what you were trying to disprove. The stats that I was talking about were the proportion of medals won by UK olympians, not the stats of how much time primary school children here in the UK spend on PE. Thanks for taking my quote out of context to try to make me look like a fool. I'll accept your apology any time you please. This article shows what I was on about. Granted, things have improved a little since 2012, so please don't waste your time researching to try to disprove me again. Because to try to do that, you do need to remember that only 7% of the UK population can access private schooling, which skews the figures you might quote quite drastically! http://www.bbc.com/news/education-19109724 Edited July 17, 2017 by stewmac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 You compared hours of PE in schools in Scotland and Finland and stated that shows a "huge difference in attitude".Only the stats show Scotland does more time doing PE than Finland......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewmac Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 You compared hours of PE in schools in Scotland and Finland and stated that shows a "huge difference in attitude".Only the stats show Scotland does more time doing PE than Finland......... No, I was talking about the stats relating to medal winners. You clearly either haven't gone back and read the posts again, or you are unable to comprehend the thread. Which is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 No, I was talking about the stats relating to medal winners. You clearly either haven't gone back and read the posts again, or you are unable to comprehend the thread. Which is it? I have checked the stats on your comparison and shown that you seem to be wrong with Scotland and Finland.Is that clear enough?There is no "huge difference in attitude".Is that clear enough?Ok i can understand you don't like those stats,but that is what UNESCO have come up with....not me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewmac Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 I have checked the stats on your comparison and shown that you seem to be wrong with Scotland and Finland.Is that clear enough?There is no "huge difference in attitude".Is that clear enough?Ok i can understand you don't like those stats,but that is what UNESCO have come up with....not meIris123, I've no axe to grind with you, and I am not disputing what you have just been writing about. However, I repeat, you are misquoting me as I when I mentioned statistics, I was talking NOT about time spent on PE (which IS what the discussion went on to in further posts) but on the proportion of medals won at Olympics! I'm standing on a train platform right now in Lahti, Finland about to wave off my in-laws who are returning to Russia shortly, so I don't have time to go back and quote the posts directly to show you, but rest assured, if you are unable or unwilling to go back and read them, then once I have driven back to where I'm staying 100 odd miles north again, and had a sleep, I will certainly quote them tomorrow. You,and all others who read that post tomorrow will then see you are due me an apology for misquoting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 This article claims that Laguta's B-sampe also (as expected) was positive. http://espeedway.pl/news,laguta_zna_juz_wynik_probki_b_na_rozprawe_troche_poczeka,88008,12.html Another artlce about Grigorij's B-sample (might be behind paywall). https://www.ekuriren.se/sport/b-provet-positivt-nu-vantar-forhor-och-boter-for-laguta/ Grigorij keeps claiming to be innocent (well everyone who gets caught do) and says that he had no idea how the substance entered his body. GL will have a hearing in August after which it will be decided for how long he will be suspended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewmac Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 Iris123: As promised, please check the timings of each of these posts: The difference is that the vast majority of these medals you talk about were won by athletes who went to private schools. There the ethos is different.I hate private schooling myself, where the only reason for these places to exist in my eyes is to buy privilege. But with far more money and resources they get the idea of breeding winning sportspeople. I'm a primary school teacher in a state school and I can assure you that it's there that the problem starts from. The majority of teachers follow this politically correct bull that states we can't humiliate those who might not win. It bugs me to the hilt. Nobody is talking about humiliating them, but we simply have to instill the idea that if we want to succeed we have to accept that for all the tiny number of winners there will be many more losers.Going back to your post about the medals in Olympics, unfortunately not many speedway riders come through the private school system. I can only think of one in my 41 years supporting that has been any good, Mr Tatum himself. Then you replied: Not seen any stats to prove or disprove what you say and i certainly ain't going to look each medal winner up,but.... Although the likes of Froome and Hoy went to private schools other medal winners like Victoria Pendleton,Jason Kenny,Bradley Wiggins and Mo Farah,maybe Jessica Ennis? didn't.Another Joe Joyce the boxer went to a school just down the road from where i used to live and that certainly isn't private!!! Then I replied to your post: That's great that they proved to be winners. But you should check the stats. They tell the story quite plainly, unfortunately.In Scotland where I teach, primary school pupils are supposed to have 2 hours PE per week. Many don't, simply because PE is still by many seen as not one of the crucial subjects. Compare that to Finland, where I'm on holiday right now, where primary school pupils do an hour of PE every day! There's a huge difference in attitude right away! From your subsequent posts yesterday, I can only assume you thought that my highlighted quote at 2.40pm was referring to what I went on to talk about afterwards, when in fact it was clearly referring to the two posts previously. I even included a link yesterday from the BBC to back up what I was talking about. I hope I have managed to lay things out now in a way that illustrates for you what I was referring to. I am about to head to Varkaus, to see teacher friends there who can back up what I said about their primary school children doing an hour of PE every day as I went on to say at the end of the third quote. While I'm not arguing with your official stats, I have many primary school teacher friends all over Finland and they all have confirmed that their classes do much more PE than Scottish children do. This evening I'm watching the speedway match at Varkaus. But I'm not expecting to see any future world champs there ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPNY Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 This article claims that Laguta's B-sampe also (as expected) was positive. http://espeedway.pl/news,laguta_zna_juz_wynik_probki_b_na_rozprawe_troche_poczeka,88008,12.html Another artlce about Grigorij's B-sample (might be behind paywall). https://www.ekuriren.se/sport/b-provet-positivt-nu-vantar-forhor-och-boter-for-laguta/ Grigorij keeps claiming to be innocent (well everyone who gets caught do) and says that he had no idea how the substance entered his body. GL will have a hearing in August after which it will be decided for how long he will be suspended. Shame. He's such a good rider to watch. Still amazed his brother didnt ride in the SWC, what was that about? Cant be lack of form he just won the SEC Round #2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 Shame. He's such a good rider to watch. Still amazed his brother didnt ride in the SWC, what was that about? Cant be lack of form he just won the SEC Round #2 It was mentioned earlier in the thread that the Russian Federation supposedly couldn't afford to bring Emil and both of the Laguta brothers so they had to choose 2 of those 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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